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May 19th, 2009

In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability

Posted by Jeremy Allison @ 4:00 am

Categories: Microsoft, Open Source, Standards

Tags: Interoperability, Microsoft Office, Service Pack 2, Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Corp., OpenDocument Format, Spreadsheet, POSIX, OpenDocument Format (ODF), Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2

Microsoft recently released service pack two (SP2) for their flagship office product, Office 2007. As I’m not a user of Microsoft products, normally I wouldn’t have noticed, but Office 2007 SP2 had an important new feature for users of Open Source office productivity software that made me pay attention. SP2 contains Microsoft’s first native implementation of the file format Open Document Format (ODF), originally created for Sun’s Open Source OpenOffice product. ODF was standardized by the International Standards Organization (ISO) before Microsoft’s rival Office Open XML (OOXML) and is seen as the competitor to Microsoft’s offering for the future of XML based office file formats, so Microsoft implementing it in Office is a big deal.

With the implementation of ODF in SP2, we finally have one portable office file format, accepted and implemented by most office productivity software. That’s the theory, right ? The devil, as always, is in the details.

IBM’s Rob Weir, chair of the ODF Technical Committee and one of the people involved in the design and standardization of ODF examined Microsoft’s implementation of spreadsheet interoperability. He specifically looked at the case of spreadsheets using formulas (which in practical terms is most spreadsheets that users would create and use), and he published his findings here.

I’m not going to go into great technical detail of what Microsoft actually did wrong in their implementation; Rob does an excellent job of that in his blog. Let’s just look at  an overview instead. In short, Microsoft managed to reduce interoperability between office productivity software by their implementation of ODF inside SP2.

How can this be ?  After all, ODF is an ISO standard. Surely if you implement a standard fully, which Microsoft claims to have done in SP2, then you must have an interoperable product. So long as others also implement the standard as written, then everything should just work together. That’s the way things are supposed to work.

One of the reasons is that standards themselves are often not perfect. Microsoft and their attendant band of astroturf bloggers are already raising a hue and cry over Rob’s findings, claiming the ODF standard itself is at fault, and in some cases calling for his resignation as chair of the ODF Technical Committee for the heinous sin of pointing out this emperor has no clothes.

They are right about the ODF standard of course. It is missing a proper definition of spreadsheet formulas. This is the truck-sized hole that Microsoft drove through in their implementation. Sure Excel saves formulas in ODF documents, just in a separate  namespace where no other application is currently designed to look for them. The result is that anyone trying to open an ODF spreadsheet created in Excel will have it rejected. Excel reading an ODF spreadsheet created by another application does something worse, it will use the last value for the data in the spreadsheet cell that should be governed by the formula. The formulas themselves are silently dropped.

Yet Microsoft Office SP2 claims to have a fully compliant version of ODF, and that’s probably true, as defined by the specification. It’s just completely useless at interoperating with other vendors’ products. This is not interoperability, it’s an attack on the very concept.

Unions are not popular in either the USA or the UK any more, which I think is a sad state of affairs. My first action on getting my first job in the UK was joining the local union. So for those readers not experienced with union activity, I’d like to explain the concept of  “Working to Rule”. When a union is trying to negotiate with management, there are a broad range of options they can take before using the ultimate weapon of going on strike. One of these tactics is “Working to Rule”. Normally in a working day, there are hundreds of small rules that people ignore in order to get their jobs done. From refilling the coffee machine for themselves (which could be a health and safety hazard, if you really think about it) to fixing small problems with the machines they use for the job. “Working to Rule” means deliberately obeying every single one of these rules. Coffee machine out of water ? “Not my job mate.” Ethernet cable fallen out of a machine ? “I’m a programmer, not a hardware engineer. Someone had better come and fix that for me.” I’m sure you get the idea. Punctilious observation of every possible rule in order to disrupt orderly working.

This is what Microsoft has done with ODF in SP2.

They’ve done this before.

When Windows NT was first announced, one exciting new feature was the concept of “subsystems”. Windows NT was to be a chameleon operating system. Not only would it run Windows binaries, it had two other “subsystem personalities”, OS/2 and POSIX. Yes, that’s right, Windows NT was originally a fully POSIX-compliant operating system. POSIX is the standard for UNIX programs, meaning you could re-compile the same source code on any POSIX compliant system and it was guaranteed to work the same. POSIX was popular in government contract specifications, as it was supposed to save the government money on IT systems by forcing vendors to be interoperable.

I remember getting my hands on the first beta of Windows NT, starting up the POSIX subsystem and trying some code out on it. It was a joke. Networking ? That’s not part of the official POSIX spec, so no access to the network. Windowing ? That’s not in there either, so no fancy graphical interfaces for your POSIX programs, pure text-based code only. Anything not fully mandated by the spec was ripped out. Yes, it could pass the pure POSIX conformance tests, but that was all it was able to do. No useful code could run on this system, as all of it expected something more than the basic standard, which most other POSIX vendors had managed to create de-facto standards around. The Windows subsystem even had some of these de-facto POSIX-like standards (the Berkeley sockets networking interface for example) but these were explicitly excluded from the Windows NT POSIX subsystem. The only purpose was to allow government purchasers to check the box marked “POSIX compliant” but allow them to purchase completely proprietary Windows solutions, and that’s just what they did. It implemented the letter of the law, whilst completely ignoring the spirit of it.

So how do you do real interoperability ? Well, I like to think that my own project Samba could teach engineers a thing or two about how to do that. We’re working from specifications for the Common Internet File System (CIFS) protocol that are not an official standard, but we go out of our way to make sure we work with other vendors implementations. We attend interoperability testing conferences, where we work with the engineers of other vendors (including Microsoft engineers) to ensure that customers deploying any of our implementations don’t get any nasty surprises. We’ve changed our code to work with Windows 95 and 98, Windows mobile, Windows CE, Windows 7, Network Appliance, a host of un-named embedded versions of CIFS in different appliances, even old versions of OS/2. It’s not hard, it’s just careful, detailed work. The only rule is to follow the words of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) for interoperability, “Be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you will accept.”

If we simply worked from a specification, we’d end up with a product that would work with itself, but would have no chance of working in the real world with other vendors implementations. Very similar to what Microsoft has produced with Office 2007 SP2’s ODF support.

A complete cynic would say that was what was intended. That Microsoft, being the dominant vendor of office suites, would only benefit from creating an implementation of a competing standard that was worthless for interoperability. That causing confusion in the marketplace like this was designed to make customers scuttle back to the safety of only using Microsoft Office and the endlessly mutating versions of .DOC or .DOCX, as these interoperability issues are at least problems the customers have learned to live with over the years.

But I’ve seen Microsoft do better than this. I’ve worked with their engineers on CIFS, they’ve attended interoperability events, they’ve even logged bugs on Samba when they’ve found problems. They know how to do this properly.

But what we currently see in Office 2007 SP2 is still “Working to Rule” in every sense of the phrase.

Jeremy Allison is one of the lead developers on the Samba Team, a group of programmers developing an Open Source Windows compatible file and print server product for UNIX systems. Developed over the Internet in a distributed manner similar to the Linux system, Samba is used by all Linux distributions as well as many thousands of corporations worldwide. Jeremy handles the co-ordination of Samba development efforts and acts as a corporate liason to companies using the Samba code commercially. He works for Google, Inc. who fund him to work full-time on improving Samba and solving the problems of Windows and Linux interoperability.

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  • Most Recent of 391 Talkback(s)
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability
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Posted by: gwreg4fge Posted on: 11/03/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  bobfastner | 05/19/09
Yup.  Sleeper Service | 05/19/09
What if you created a document format and no one cared?  storm14k | 05/19/09
Yes? And?  Sleeper Service | 05/19/09
And what....  storm14k | 05/19/09
Why did you bother to comment then?  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
lol...  TylerM89 | 05/19/09
Oh no you don't!  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
I care... This is sabotage  FanaticGeek | 05/21/09
Office 2007 user that has switched to Open Office  westea49 | 05/27/09
It wasn't easy...  zkiwi | 05/21/09
The only real standard document standard is PDF  Too Old For IT | 05/20/09
OpenOffice does  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
Editing PDF?  cwtryon | 05/20/09
You mean these guys?  sdunn2000@... | 05/20/09
The United States of America . . .  sporkfighter | 05/20/09
And they screamed...  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
All it takes . . .  sporkfighter | 05/22/09
You must admit that the standard is useless  NonZealot | 05/19/09
MS is "someone with an agenda"  T1Oracle | 05/19/09
If profit (or lack thereof) is an indicator...  rock06r | 05/20/09
Who cares  FanaticGeek | 05/21/09
What part of...  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
In Other Words...  CFWhitman | 05/20/09
It isn't a loophole  mdemuth | 05/20/09
OOo Extending the standard?  rfdparker2002 | 05/20/09
ODF 1.2 still not released  orcmid | 05/26/09
but OpenOffice works fine...  elliotg | 05/20/09
What!  wjgrimm | 05/20/09
What a load of bollox  Richard Turpin | 05/20/09
extend...  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
The old joke says it all...  bswiss | 05/22/09
Governments state ODF for one reason  putt1ck | 05/20/09
I'm from the government. I'm here to help...  TallTomD | 05/20/09
Excellent motto for MS  dfolk2 | 05/20/09
well said  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
I agree-it's a distraction by ODF  royalef | 05/20/09
Did you ever try Open Office?  FanaticGeek | 05/21/09
did you read your post?  clarnT | 05/20/09
Right  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
Right  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
MS originall wrote Active Directory to be LDAP compliant  I am Gorby | 05/20/09
Sorry, Mr. Allison. All you have written is  GuidingLight | 05/19/09
Short commings did you say GeldedLight?  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
New troll?  TylerM89 | 05/19/09
Hi Tyler.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
Misleading article  gnesterenko | 05/20/09
Microwave Dog  giantiago | 05/20/09
OOXML -- dead format walking?  Ole Man | 05/20/09
Notice that...  fairportfan | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Badgered | 05/19/09
Microsoft had every chance to be a part of it ODF.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
....  Badgered | 05/20/09
ProTip: There is no balanced Microsoft opinion. (NT)  kozmcrae | 05/20/09
Again....  Badgered | 05/20/09
No need to try.  kozmcrae | 05/20/09
I suppose I did...  Badgered | 05/21/09
ProTip: Read the...  fairportfan | 05/20/09
Q-Tip...  Badgered | 05/21/09
The astroturfing has begun  kmcgregor-cow | 05/19/09
Sounds like a great idea!  NonZealot | 05/19/09
Of course there is: When in doubt, make the compatible choice.  Zogg | 05/19/09
So when is OpenOffice...  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
You completely miss Jeremy's point  Michael Kelly | 05/19/09
Exactly  gnesterenko | 05/20/09
Amen  WATKINS12@... | 05/20/09
It IS perfectly okay  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
Are you kidding...?  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
What is right for the customer?  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Why have standards?  khawaja.umar.farooq@... | 05/21/09
And the difference is  xXSpeedzXx | 05/19/09
You're making it too complicated  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
Explained  PCLinuxOS(user) | 05/19/09
Wow....you're pretty dumb...  storm14k | 05/19/09
The Internet is based on this concept  daengbo | 05/20/09
Spreadsheet formulas are a corner case?  NonZealot | 05/22/09
Best for customers vs. best for business  frgough | 05/19/09
re: Best for customers vs. best for business  none none | 05/19/09
True only in a competitive market  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
Why didn't I think of that?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
or how about....  storm14k | 05/19/09
It can very well be best for the business....  storm14k | 05/19/09
He's actually right in one sense  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
It doesn't work that way...  storm14k | 05/19/09
That very attitude is the problem  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
Wow!  zdnet-gregc | 05/20/09
I'm just glad..  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
"What's good for General Bullmoose...  fairportfan | 05/20/09
True . . .  sporkfighter | 05/22/09
So, what is it you're suggesting?  MGP2 | 05/19/09
False dilemma  kmcgregor-cow | 05/19/09
They DON'T interoperate well; that's the point  easson | 05/19/09
Keep on flinging out the red herrings...  zkiwi | 05/20/09
Ya gotta love the union example  frgough | 05/19/09
re: Ya gotta love the union example  none none | 05/19/09
Not necessarily  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
SO consumers should have to pay $700  xXSpeedzXx | 05/19/09
Yes  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
Small price to pay for  xXSpeedzXx | 05/19/09
Not for Grandma  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
Get that stuff into a bottle LD.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
WordPad, for SURE!  wjgrimm | 05/20/09
$700?  khawaja.umar.farooq@... | 05/21/09
Well, a thinking person would have looked at...  zkiwi | 05/21/09
Office 2007 Prices (and other thoughts)  khawaja.umar.farooq@... | 05/21/09
Hmm. 3 out of 10 for troll-quality.  nizuse | 05/19/09
Stalker  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
Still a 3 LD.  nizuse | 05/19/09
HAHAHAHHA!  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
Actually,  nizuse | 05/20/09
Problem solved?  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
Haven't noticed that, no.  Loverock Davidson | 05/19/09
Haven't noticed?  kozmcrae | 05/20/09
Don't make me laugh too hard.  wjgrimm | 05/20/09
Beware when you reboot that puppy  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
Good for Microsoft - More power to them  croberts | 05/19/09
I hate to break it to you..  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
But when they don't follow...  Erroneous | 05/19/09
Not exactly...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
Sorry but no.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Meant Opera. (nt)  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Minor point: you can edit your own posts here.  B.O.F.H. | 05/19/09
I see they let you have your keyboard back Ax.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
I hate to break it to YOU!  easson | 05/19/09
Still no excuse.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Then one could argue  GuidingLight | 05/19/09
ODF was Definitely not Designed for Interoperability with Microsoft Office  easson | 05/19/09
Sun? I think you mean Microsoft!  maggietoo9 | 05/20/09
Re: Definitely not Designed for Interoperability with Microsoft Office  Still Lynn | 05/21/09
How could you argue that ?  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Obvious answer  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
Some more hsitory for you...  easson | 05/19/09
@easson  fr0thy2 | 05/20/09
If one is committed to looking foolish ...  Still Lynn | 05/21/09
"besmirches Microsoft's reputation and capabilities"  kozmcrae | 05/22/09
Why should Microsoft be in charge of making the standards.  kozmcrae | 05/22/09
re: I hate to break it to YOU!  none none | 05/19/09
Swiss Cheese  gary_edwards | 05/19/09
Driving through holes: Optional  kmcgregor-cow | 05/19/09
You don't need to guess at the approach Microsoft took  easson | 05/19/09
Marketing vs. Reality  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
Have you actually ever read the standard?  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Certainly  easson | 05/19/09
Some of the people commenting here...  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
Don't use their product  osreinstall | 05/19/09
The honest thing to do...  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
But OOXML...  storm14k | 05/19/09
EU comission and DoJ must amend ODF  Linux Geek | 05/19/09
Clue for ya, ODF doesn't work in Open Office  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
????  Linux Geek | 05/19/09
That is like saying....  Erroneous | 05/19/09
convicted monopolists should conform to the standard  Linux Geek | 05/19/09
They are conforming to...  Erroneous | 05/19/09
Did they...  Tony Agudo | 05/19/09
Is it documented somewhere?  storm14k | 05/19/09
Wrong NoAxe. OFD works fine in OO.  nizuse | 05/19/09
Sory guys, OpenOffcie 3 FAILS  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Again, do the work NoAxe (& ps title???)  nizuse | 05/19/09
Your information is what?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Oh I'm dealing with it - by exposing you,  nizuse | 05/19/09
NoAxe is right  kyron.gustafson@... | 05/20/09
Microsoft now attempt to fragment ODF  Ole Man | 05/20/09
dufuss  zzz1234567890 | 05/19/09
So...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
Inferring intentions  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
Standard practice?  DevStar | 05/19/09
MS had to go out their way to break interoperability. Again.  Letophoro | 05/19/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  techboy_z | 05/19/09
Offtopic but...  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Offtopic but...  meelder | 05/19/09
Right. And why we cannot  GuidingLight | 05/19/09
re: Right. And why we cannot  none none | 05/19/09
In Regard to Unions  xXSpeedzXx | 05/19/09
Billy Bragg  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Thanks for the link.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
There's always 2 sides  colinnwn | 05/20/09
Five steps forward, one step back  bran.murray | 05/19/09
For all the astroturfers  Tony Agudo | 05/19/09
What was Microsoft's goal? Compliance or Interop?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Which is why  Michael Kelly | 05/19/09
Not possible to fix in a standards doc.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
However *this* problem seems quite fixable  Michael Kelly | 05/19/09
They're already back on the drawing board  Tony Agudo | 05/19/09
I agree. (nt)  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Good point, but not complete.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
You need to learn a few facts, Jeremy  easson | 05/19/09
Not relevent.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
How to win friends and influence people...  MGP2 | 05/19/09
You miss the point Jeremy...  DevStar | 05/19/09
So say you're in the midst of a lawsuit  Michael Kelly | 05/19/09
Huh?  DevStar | 05/19/09
Lame Article, Lame Responses  kyron.gustafson@... | 05/20/09
Standards do NOT impede innovation  webmaestro | 05/20/09
File Formats should not be governed by standards!  kyron.gustafson@... | 05/20/09
Standards impede Innovation?  cwtryon | 05/20/09
Are you just making this up?  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
No  easson | 05/19/09
Easy to prove  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
"None accepted"?  cwtryon | 05/20/09
speaking of making things up  Doug Mahugh | 05/25/09
Not only, but also...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
It has  easson | 05/19/09
Well...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
Rob Weir is commenting in these threads.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
I kinda knew that...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
Someone needs to get to work  san-andreas | 05/20/09
Yes, I wonder..........  Ole Man | 05/20/09
I understand where your coming from on this but...  Cayble | 05/19/09
Microsoft have a broader constituancy to consider.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
ODF is important. So What Went Wrong?  gary_edwards | 05/20/09
Hey Gary.  kozmcrae | 05/20/09
Edit Magic  gary_edwards | 05/21/09
Changing your tune ?  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
Money makes the world go round  Ole Man | 05/20/09
ODF is sufficient, but not interoperable  gary_edwards | 05/21/09
Microsoft did shoot themselves in the foot  michiel cornou | 05/20/09
Here is what is not complete.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
As I have told you before.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
re: What was Microsoft's goal? Compliance or Interop?  none none | 05/19/09
Did you have a point at all?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Easiest way for children to annoy their parents is...  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
I would have a ....  Erroneous | 05/19/09
We aren't raising children  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
In which case...  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
Another way of putting it would be...  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
So what you're telling us is ...  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
You have it backwards, OpenOffie should switch to OOXML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Largest installed base?  NetArch. | 05/19/09
No ODF macros either  orcmid | 05/26/09
Largest installed base?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/20/09
What was the customers goal?  storm14k | 05/19/09
Not happening...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Still the blunt side of the axe, I see  Monkey_MCSE | 05/20/09
Good point.  nizuse | 05/19/09
Grow up and Man up  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
Tsk tsk (and about that Powerpoint book?)  nizuse | 05/19/09
Man up, you know how don't you?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
To answer your question:  nizuse | 05/19/09
No_Ax_to_Grind must not be very proud of his book/work.  B.O.F.H. | 05/19/09
Lol yeah - that must be it  nizuse | 05/19/09
What was Microsoft's goal?  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
Of course Microsoft are sabotaging interoperability, d'ohh!  whisperycat | 05/19/09
Office SP2 is compliant with the standard; others aren't  easson | 05/19/09
You do realize how ridiculous you're making Microsoft look here ?  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
You didn't respond to my points  easson | 05/19/09
To drive the point even further  Tony Agudo | 05/19/09
"and support for industry standards."  Erroneous | 05/19/09
I'm reminded...  rapson | 05/19/09
LOL!  khawaja.umar.farooq@... | 05/21/09
But you realize...  DevStar | 05/19/09
Poor old Microsoft... sob sniffle sniff!  Ole Man | 05/20/09
Corrected  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/19/09
You continue to just make stuff up  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Nothing made up  easson | 05/19/09
Credibility  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
re: Credibility  easson | 05/19/09
Who at Microsoft is backing up your comments?  B.O.F.H. | 05/19/09
Doug Mahugh  easson | 05/19/09
You're the one trotting out conformance...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
You made nothing up?  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
If it's not in the spec...  wolf_z | 05/19/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Why Is the Translator Better?  orcmid | 05/26/09
On the other hand...  John L. Ries | 05/19/09
A Better Blog than Jeremy's on this Issue  easson | 05/19/09
Interesting diagram.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Strawman  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
More nonsense from Mr. "I demand you abide by my ideology"  markbn | 05/19/09
INDEED, if it was real, OpenOffice would use OOXML  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
OOXML is a pig, more bloated than the XML format in Office 2003.  B.O.F.H. | 05/19/09
OOXML 'IS' bloated--why then is ODF interop expected to be simple?  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
Microsoft playing nice with Samba?  zkiwi | 05/21/09
Re: INDEED, if it was real, OpenOffice would use OOXML  Still Lynn | 05/21/09
The post was by Jeremy Allison...  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
Good article  dfolk2 | 05/19/09
This is spin designed to preempt discussion of the real issue  honeymonster | 05/19/09
This is history repeating itself  dfolk2 | 05/19/09
Allison must address honeymonster's comment or resign  pupkin_z | 05/19/09
You guys are really hurting.  kozmcrae | 05/19/09
no meaning  pupkin_z | 05/20/09
You guys never fail to entertain me.  kozmcrae | 05/20/09
Give them some more rope  Ole Man | 05/20/09
The method will be lethal injection.  kozmcrae | 05/21/09
Right on  ITLeader | 05/19/09
But Microsoft doesn't implement OOXML  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Besides the point  honeymonster | 05/19/09
How can I ...?  TripleII | 05/19/09
The true non-interop is open source. (OpenOffice)  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/19/09
beat that dead horse Axe  Monkey_MCSE | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Rob Weir | 05/19/09
Strawman  honeymonster | 05/19/09
Strawman with a great deal of flesh  dfolk2 | 05/20/09
Not an ambiguity  Earthling2 | 05/21/09
In MS' words.  BorgX | 05/19/09
re: In MS's Words  easson | 05/20/09
The standard is garbage ...  dkawalec | 05/19/09
You can't close them all.  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
You keep missing the point...  DevStar | 05/19/09
Utterly ridiculous statement !  JeremyAllison | 05/19/09
Wrong...  DevStar | 05/19/09
And yet...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
Well put  dfolk2 | 05/20/09
They took too damn long  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
And the fallout...  zkiwi | 05/20/09
But it's a strawman and a poor analogy, Jeremy  honeymonster | 05/19/09
I call bulls**t ...  dkawalec | 05/20/09
well said  zzz1234567890 | 05/19/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  lightweight | 05/19/09
I hadn't heard that POSIX story before  roaming | 05/19/09
Well, now that you know...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
"If that's true" ? True for NT3.x through NT4.0  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
Yup, SFU and SUA still alive and well  orcmid | 05/26/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Tony Agudo | 05/19/09
And you didn't even notice the spin?  honeymonster | 05/19/09
So you're defending Microsoft's position...  Tony Agudo | 05/20/09
Standards for Office internals a bad idea in the first place  Patanjali | 05/19/09
I'm sorry...  zkiwi | 05/19/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Mr.Gonzo | 05/20/09
Cry us a river, Jeremy?  Scrat | 05/20/09
Thanks for the bug report happy.  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
So there you have it, folks  whisperycat | 05/20/09
Have they?  Average-IT-Guy | 05/20/09
I don't care  chuckbalkn | 05/20/09
Long term you'll probably need to care.  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
That's below you  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
Ah well...  zkiwi | 05/20/09
From starter.  magallanes | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Khyron | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  Cosmic1 | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  robert.a.leach@... | 05/20/09
Another reason why I am changing to OpenOffice  johnnydoe1894 | 05/20/09
Dude.  Average-IT-Guy | 05/20/09
The real issue  odcchaz | 05/20/09
Your Data is _not_ Yours, Its MSs  reedmb@... | 05/20/09
Sorry.  Average-IT-Guy | 05/20/09
Re: Sorry  reedmb@... | 05/20/09
Visual J , anyone?  chas_2 | 05/20/09
So Excel doesn't work. What about Word, PowerPoint and Access?  bran.murray | 05/20/09
Word and PowerPoint do Fine  easson | 05/20/09
Is there a an ODF equivalent for not being able to calculate a leap year?  whisperycat | 05/20/09
Leap year issues  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
So...  zkiwi | 05/20/09
Just goes to show  Ole Man | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  psion@... | 05/20/09
Standards and interoperability  msilver@... | 05/20/09
That is naive  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
Thanks...  zkiwi | 05/20/09
Standards...we don't need no stinkin standards!  readwryt@... | 05/20/09
My Favorite Part  mthyer | 05/20/09
no news here  mswift@... | 05/20/09
ODF championed by whom?  blarman_z | 05/20/09
Lost the plot....  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
Standards Creation in 3 Easy Steps  Too Old For IT | 05/20/09
Rob Weir and <P>  Earthling2 | 05/20/09
What MSFT does is truly irrelevant  schmandel@... | 05/20/09
Relevance comes later  Earthling2 | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  cwtryon | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  cyfaill | 05/20/09
What about ODF 1.2?  cwtryon | 05/20/09
The Current version is 1.0  easson | 05/20/09
Typo: I meant 1.1  easson | 05/20/09
Uh, 1.0 and 1.1 mostly the same  orcmid | 05/26/09
Sigh  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
ODF 1.2  khawaja.umar.farooq@... | 05/22/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  chromeronin | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  janvl | 05/20/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  phatkat | 05/20/09
Let's hear it for Microsoft "Interoperablity"  whisperycat | 05/20/09
What demand, what marketplace  nmeyer67@... | 05/20/09
Of course microsoft knew exactly what they were doing!  chaz15 | 05/20/09
Bingo!  gary_edwards | 05/20/09
Excuse of the psychopath - blame the victim.  JeremyAllison | 05/20/09
There IS a higher court  Ole Man | 05/20/09
Typical spin  ITLeader | 05/21/09
Money makes the world go round  gary_edwards | 05/21/09
Methinks thou dost protest too much  Ole Man | 05/21/09
"....You Can't Handle The Truth"  gary_edwards | 06/01/09
"the walls of the Web" are "plastered" with truth  Ole Man | 06/01/09
Wake Up Call  gary_edwards | 06/04/09
Good night Microsoft!  Ole Man | 06/05/09
Silver Blaze: The dog that did not bark  gary_edwards | 06/09/09
Business must be mighty slow, Gary boy  Ole Man | 06/18/09
For the record:  gary_edwards | 06/11/09
I've had a chance to look these comments over a few times.  kozmcrae | 05/22/09
"DOS is not ready until Lotus wouldn't run"  csomole | 05/23/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  bb_apptix | 05/27/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  daves1646 | 06/17/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  gwreg4fge | 10/08/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  kagyhelen | 10/26/09
RE: In Office SP2, Microsoft manages to reduce interoperability  gwreg4fge | 11/03/09

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