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September 22nd, 2005

Microsoft vs Mass.: What ever happened to 'The customer is always right'?

Posted by David Berlind @ 3:26 pm

Categories: General, Government, IT Management, Open Source, Software Infrastructure

Tags:

Is it just me, or is there something highly unusual about the extremely hard time that Microsoft is giving to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts over its decision to move to Open Document Format (ODF) as the standard for storing files produced by productivity applications like word processors and spreadsheets?  Whatever happened to the old saying that "The customer is always right (even when they’re wrong)?"

Just when I thought I beat this issue to death with several blog posts, along comes a recording of the Open Format Meeting that was held in Massachusetts by the Mass Technology Leadership Council where the Commonwealth of Massachusetts heard feedback "on the latest draft iteration of their Enterprise Technical Reference Model, specifically the section on document formats."  Massachusetts Secretary of Administration and Finance Eric Kriss was in attendance as was the Commonwealth’s CIO Peter Quinn.  Although than MP3 audio file of the entire meeting can be downloaded off the Net, text transcripts are beginning to show up.  The first one I noticed was on one of Tim Bray’s posts (see New England Town Meeting) where he excerpted an exchange between Microsoft National Technology Officer Stuart McKee and other Microsoft representatives

What stood out to me is that Quinn (and other Massachusetts officials) spelled out in no uncertain terms what was important to the Commonwealth, what the Commonwealth’s definition of open was, and what Microsoft had to do to satisfy the Commonwealth’s requirements. 

On the "of critical importance" front, the discussion covered in great detail what it means for a state in the United States to maintain its sovereignty and how state officials felt that proprietary technologies are at odds with that sovereignty. The officials made it pretty clear that it felt as though the intellectual property rights (IPR) that Microsoft is maintaining with respect to its file formats were at odds with the non-negotiability of the Commonwealth’s sovereignty.  They acknowledged that  it had no problem with software companies maintaining IPR on the software itself, like Microsoft Office.  But, to the extent that public documents will be stored electronically using certain file formats, there’s minimal room for IPR to be connected with those formats.

Mass. officials also gave their definition of an open specification as one that meets the following three criteria:

  • It must have no or absolutely minimal legal restrictions attached to it. 
  • It must be published and subject to peer review
  • It must be subject to joint stewardship

With the three criteria laid out, the officials explained to Microsoft’s McKee and others that if Microsoft dropped it’s patents on the file formats, really published the standard so it was available for peer review, and made the current versions and future modifications subject to joint stewardship, that it would be open to reconsidering its policy.

As you can see from the transcript on Bray’s blog, and as you can hear from the audio file, McKee and the others representing Microsoft were fairly respectful in their delivery.  But, while I wasn’t present to see the body language, the audio made it seemed as though they were out of place in conservative New England culture — cracking coffee jokes at a relatively serious meeting and saying things like "There’s 400 million people using Office. It’s embarrassing to say that very frequently." No one was laughing.  At one point, during a sort of tongue-in-cheek invitation to an IT matters debate, McKee confused New England Talk Radio Host Howie Carr with Harvard’s Nicholas Carr

As a result of the deliberations with Massachusetts, Microsoft apparently swallowed a bitter pill by making the license to the Office file formats perpetual and royalty-free.  McKee noted this was a big change for Microsoft.  While Microsoft has come a long way in addressing the Commonwealth’s concerns, rather than adopting a conciliatory tone (and this is my opinion), Microsoft’s overall response in the meeting challenged the Commonwealth’s logic and put state officials on the spot, forcing them to explain their rationale in a way that most companies would never tolerate (rather than saying "We totally get it, we hear you, we understand your requirements, and we’ll get back to you").  At one point, Microsoft’s Brian Berg made it clear that he and others had gone to the Commonwealth’s Senators with the issue.  Based on his account of those discussions, he briefly called into question the Commonwealth’s execution of the legislation that led to policy requiring ODF.

At one point [time code 1:12:20], McKee lectured Secretary Kriss on how Microsoft’s intellectual property is key to the company’s revenue generation and tax payments and then asked Kriss "Are you talking about extinguishing IP rights?" Responded Kriss:

Of course not. Intellectual property is extremely important. But when it comes to this specific issue and the definition of a file format, you can always make the claim of intellectual property to the definition of a file format.  That is any corporation’s or any individual’s rights to do so..  It’s just that that doesn’t serve the needs of a sovereign state.  Here we have a true conflict between the notion of intellectual property and the notion of sovereignty.  I would say 100 percent of the time in a democracy, sovereignty trumps intellectual property. 

Massachusetts is currently ground zero for the soul searching Microsoft must do. If it capitulates, as it already has  to some extent on the license to its formats (thanks to Massachusetts), then the rest of the world gets to benefit from the new license terms.  In that respect, the license terms are more like a house of cards.  If the formats get opened (Massachusetts-style), then a piece of the footing on which the entire Office and Windows franchise stand will have crumbled and what happens next is anybody’s guess.  At the same time, Microsoft’s business model and tactics are being drawn into question. 

During the deliberations, Massachusetts officials also made it clear that the cost of sticking with Microsoft was a major pain point, citing how the next version of Office (to the best of their knowledge) will not run on Windows 2000 and they’ll be forced to upgrade a bunch of operating systems too (the state has 80,000 employees).  With a format like ODF, back-level support — even if the format matures — won’t be subject to the whims of a single vendor’s decision.  That’s what sovereignty is about.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 186 Talkback(s)
RE: Microsoft vs Mass.: What ever happened to 'The customer is always right'?
Convert MOD files is designed for mod converting.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: gwreg4fge Posted on: 10/27/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Finally someone that gets it and has the cajones  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/22/05
Massachusetts sovereign???  Ole-Prof | 09/23/05
re:Massachusetts sovereign???  bunkport | 09/23/05
Well, duh  baggins_z | 09/22/05
A monopoly in name only ...  mwagner@... | 09/26/05
opportunity for third party word to ODF converter  hipparchus2000 | 09/22/05
But which third party has access to the complete MS format specifications?  Zogg | 09/23/05
AFAIK office12 xml is freely usable apart from for GPL apps  hipparchus2000 | 09/24/05
And what about BSD apps?  Zogg | 09/25/05
Question for Microsoft  Eduardo_z | 09/22/05
got an answer  Eduardo_z | 09/22/05
So they still wouldn't be satisfied  Mark Miller | 09/22/05
If Microsoft was based in MA instead of Redmond, would we be seeing this?  george_ou | 09/22/05
MA's monopoly prosecution not a factor  dberlind | 09/22/05
I could be wrong, but people do have their biases  george_ou | 09/22/05
I agree with you.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 09/22/05
George Ou's hidden agenda  IT-sys | 09/22/05
Yes they do  Richard Flude | 09/22/05
Yes, every one posting here does  george_ou | 09/22/05
Only MS has to offer OpenDocument formats?  Still Lynn | 09/23/05
Free as in freedom, George.  Scottman_z | 09/22/05
PDF is an open format  Robert Crocker | 09/23/05
George.. George.. George...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Your fooling yourself if you thingk not.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/22/05
Well...  Patrick Jones | 09/22/05
Gee that's an easy one!  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/22/05
They're not creating legal documents in Autocad!  CobraA1 | 09/22/05
How is Microsoft 'weilding control' over  Real World | 09/23/05
Re: How is Microsoft 'weilding control' over  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
Re  Real World | 09/23/05
Re: Re  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
Re Re Re  Real World | 09/23/05
Microsoft is doing nothing wrong,  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
You said that their 'weilding control' over  Real World | 09/23/05
Correction  Real World | 09/23/05
Poor choice of words  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
Let me try again  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
Great examples  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/22/05
Open Formats...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Well...  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
I hardly think speed matters here  hipparchus2000 | 09/22/05
Speed is always important  george_ou | 09/22/05
Hey, can you post the link to that file? (NT)  el1jones | 09/22/05
It's in the original blog  george_ou | 09/22/05
speed v. portability  B.O.F.H. | 09/22/05
It's called OpenOffice.org  george_ou | 09/22/05
Now?  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/22/05
if OpenOffice is more flexable than MS Office  B.O.F.H. | 09/22/05
Not perfectly though  Michael Kelly | 09/22/05
It isn't 100% compatible, is it?  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
Maybe for you..  Patrick Jones | 09/22/05
And it was pointed out in your blog  Richard Flude | 09/22/05
5% overhead is ok, not 5 times  george_ou | 09/22/05
You have to remember George.. Your benchmark isn't for everyone.. (NT)  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Do you think it will always be 5x?  NetArch. | 09/23/05
Different strokes  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/22/05
REQUIREMENTS  Robert Crocker | 09/23/05
You must be using a P2 if it takes that long... (NT)  ju1ce | 09/23/05
I`ll have to agree with that...  el1jones | 09/22/05
If Microsoft were based in France instead of US...  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 09/22/05
If Microsoft was based in France  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/22/05
It was a hypothetical.  Immanuel Tranz-Mischen | 09/22/05
So this is about hostility to Microsoft.  Anton Philidor | 09/22/05
Nope no resentment for their  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/23/05
It's : ASPERGER SYNDROME  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/23/05
If I were an MA citizen...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
France and Food  what_now2 | 09/23/05
Yeah now tell the taxpayers....  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Re: So they still wouldn't be satisfied  none none | 09/22/05
not so  Eduardo_z | 09/22/05
I wouldn`t be satisfied...  el1jones | 09/22/05
Why upgrade?  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
Really?  Richard Flude | 09/22/05
Well I've been paying some attention  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
You don't understand ...  Henaway | 09/23/05
I'm more concerned with the state's decisionmaking not MS's  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
Strawman  Still Lynn | 09/23/05
I think I've answered part of this in other posts  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
A rather unique interpretation  bystander_z | 10/01/05
Microsoft influences Government officials  matrixdomain | 09/22/05
Why is State sovereignty involved?  Anton Philidor | 09/22/05
Because it is  Fred Fredrickson | 09/22/05
Master of its domain, eh?  Anton Philidor | 09/22/05
Wouldn't work  Patrick Jones | 09/23/05
Why should the "standard" be easier...  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
No, they are not...  Patrick Jones | 09/23/05
Why you ask?  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Some "standards" continue in use...  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
Some standards....  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Why not EBCDIC?  IT_User | 09/23/05
Find me a government site....  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Not using pdf? MA perhaps.  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
MS and PDF?  ju1ce | 09/23/05
To add.. They'd be stupid not too... (NT)  ju1ce | 09/23/05
By the way Anton....  ju1ce | 09/23/05
The difference is...  rickb@... | 09/23/05
Just 1 inaccuracy  ITGuy04 | 09/23/05
State sovereignty is involved because  maldain | 09/23/05
What a crock  bystander_z | 10/01/05
I'd say that publishing the format is fair  balsover | 09/22/05
So why did MA pick what it did?  BruceWheelock@... | 09/22/05
Which open formats DOES MS-Office handle?  Zogg | 09/23/05
What about pdf?  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
Please explain..  Patrick Jones | 09/23/05
PDF?  ju1ce | 09/23/05
What ABOUT PDF??  Zogg | 09/23/05
With add-ons...  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
You mean PROPRIETARY add-ons?  Zogg | 09/23/05
"will you". (NT)  Zogg | 09/23/05
But this fails logically  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
You have also avoided the question, I notice.  Zogg | 09/24/05
RE: But this fails logically  bystander_z | 10/01/05
Please elucidate  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/23/05
What a crybaby  bystander_z | 10/01/05
I can think of a dead/dificult format  Opus92 | 09/23/05
The customer is especially right  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/22/05
Given your height...  Anton Philidor | 09/22/05
The analogy was...  dsentman@... | 09/23/05
The really ironic thing is  Airwolph | 09/23/05
Requirements  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/23/05
That's easy!  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/23/05
Gotta agree with MA on this one...  dsentman@... | 09/23/05
"Making data formats accessible" ...  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
There will always be ways to access data  ITGuy04 | 09/23/05
You're right...  Anton Philidor | 09/23/05
Re: You're right...  none none | 09/23/05
anton the fool  bystander_z | 10/01/05
Problem with your "theory"...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Re: "Making data formats accessible" ...  none none | 09/23/05
This point is REALLY hard to follow  IT_User | 09/23/05
Not so accessible  maldain | 09/23/05
I can kind of see where you're going with this  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
Not accessible is guaranteed with MS  bystander_z | 10/01/05
Not necesarily true  John Jordan | 09/23/05
examples were given  rkhalloran | 09/23/05
MA is undermining their argument here  Mark Miller | 09/24/05
For the ignorant MS shills  bystander_z | 10/01/05
I too agree with MA on this.  vdraken | 09/23/05
"The Customer Is Always Right"?  dvarona | 09/23/05
MSFT Business Practices  Chad_z | 09/23/05
 nottheusual1 | 09/28/05
Open file format a Red Herring  John Jordan | 09/23/05
Although not realistic...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
Wrong.  opensourcepro | 09/23/05
Way off the mark  bystander_z | 10/01/05
Question - why is IP more untouchable than RP  IAFarm2 | 09/23/05
You hit the problem right on I think  quietLee | 09/23/05
Are you talking about the same case?  IT_User | 09/23/05
That isn't the case here  maldain | 09/23/05
The government and software  Airwolph | 09/23/05
For those who don't get it yet  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
something for nothing  alandee4 | 09/23/05
MA is demanding nothing  CobraA1 | 09/23/05
MS options  VLow | 09/23/05
I like your opinion.. but to add...  ju1ce | 09/23/05
So don't sell to them  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/23/05
Where did you get that from  andypiesse@... | 09/23/05
For the slow persons  Rick_K | 09/24/05
something for nothing?  jbroche18 | 09/27/05
So, let's talk about a real world example...  gardoglee | 09/23/05
Excellent analogy  nottheusual1 | 09/28/05
Meeting of Minds  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/23/05
Microsoft's XML-treachery?  tony@... | 09/23/05
Is the world coming to an end  billcremering@... | 09/23/05
So when consumers CHOOSE MS the encumbered source folks should shut up?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/23/05
Yo don...  Linux Guy 1000 | 09/23/05
Sure, why not?  John L. Ries | 09/23/05
Who on Earth are "the encumbered source" folks??  Zogg | 09/24/05
Any thing touched by the GPL  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/24/05
Has MS started giving its source code away, then?  Zogg | 09/24/05
stop bashing MS encumbered source folks!  B.O.F.H. | 09/24/05
Inappropriate  mbrierley | 09/24/05
Microsoft should add ODF Support - what's so hard about that?  WiredGuy | 09/23/05
MS ODF support  Azerthoth | 09/23/05
Tut tut!  mbrierley | 09/24/05
Proprietary formats proprietize the users content ...  George Mitchell | 09/23/05
Since when does any COMPANY (M$) have  btljooz | 09/23/05
Obsolescence?  Qestrel | 09/23/05
Microsoft the Boggie-Man  aseries | 09/24/05
Mass. vs Microsoft  workbee1 | 09/25/05
Are you for real?  Rick_K | 09/25/05
In the end, the vendor is accountable for its product's performance.  mwagner@... | 09/26/05
Hmmm...I don't think so.  dsentman@... | 10/02/05
Massachusetts is neither right nor wrong ...  mwagner@... | 09/26/05
This is the right path.  tero_t_vaananen@... | 09/26/05
RE: Microsoft vs Mass.: What ever happened to 'The customer is always right'?  gwreg4fge | 10/27/09

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