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July 19th, 2009

Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?

Posted by Larry Dignan @ 4:20 am

Categories: AT&T, Apple, General, Mobile, Smartphones, Sprint, Verizon, Wired & Wireless

Tags: Apple iPhone, Verizon Communications Inc., AT&T Corp., Apple Inc., Verizon Wireless, MG Siegler, Apple-AT&T Partnership, Smart Phones, Consumer Electronics, Personal Technology

The bricks just keep being thrown through AT&T’s reputation window.

This time, TechCrunch’s MG Siegler has an entertaining rant on how Apple needs to dump AT&T and put the iPhone on Verizon Wireless. As noted before, the iPhone may be the worst thing that has ever happened to AT&T’s reputation over the long run.

But Siegler reckons that Apple can dictate terms to Verizon Wireless and simply appear. Siegler writes:

Apple no longer needs AT&T. Thanks to its huge success, it can dictate its own terms to other carriers now, and ensure it controls the iPhone ecosystem — its top priority. Verizon, as the nation’s largest carrier, is likely to give it the most resistance. But that resistance is futile. The iPhone will eventually be on Verizon, on Apple’s terms. It’s just a question of when.

The first part of that riff is true. Apple doesn’t need AT&T. The second part of that—Apple dictating terms to anyone—may not apply.

Why? Beyond AT&T Apple doesn’t have that many options. What’s Apple gonna do? Go to T-Mobile? Good luck with that one. Sprint? Possibly, but its network and customer service—both improving by the way—have been lambasted over the years. That leaves Verizon Wireless. Here’s why Verizon Wireless may not be so enamored with Apple:

  • Verizon Wireless hasn’t been crippled even though it would happily take the iPhone. The iPhone only has meant that AT&T can sorta, kinda almost tie Verizon. AT&T ended the first quarter with 78.2 million subscribers. Verizon Wireless had 86.6 million, inflated by 13.2 million from the Alltel purchase. AT&T’s retail churn rate has improved to 1.2 percent, still behind Verizon’s 1.14 percent. The mass exodus from Verizon to AT&T just isn’t happening.
  • The Apple-AT&T partnership is great marketing—for Verizon. Verizon is smiling every time one of these AT&T sucks tales emerges. Verizon Wireless can mock AT&T as long as the iPhone fans jeer.
  • Verizon Wireless already has a bevy of devices that seem to be working. Granted, these devices aren’t the iPhone, but a look at the financials and churn rate indicate that Verizon Wireless can do fine without Apple.
  • Perhaps the iPhone is just a network killer. RIM’s co-CEO Jim Balsillie revealed the company’s secret sauce a few quarters back: BlackBerries are easier on wireless networks. Is Verizon Wireless really in a rush to see if the iPhone will kill its network too? Probably not when you can just mock AT&T all day.

Does Verizon Wireless really need Apple? The case isn’t that clear. If Apple really wants great carrier terms it may want to try Sprint.

Larry DignanLarry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and Editorial Director of ZDNet sister site TechRepublic. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 161 Talkback(s)
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?
The math is correct. Churn rate is the turn over rate. .012 times 1000 = 12. .0114 times 1000 = 11.4. That mean that AT&T had .6 more people switch carriers. This also mean that Verizon is doing bette... (Read the rest)
Posted by: fjm Posted on: 10/06/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
american math  lordjeremias | 07/19/09
1.2% churn is much worse than 1.14  ilinkcs@... | 07/19/09
ur math sux  Crakka | 07/20/09
Know the business  TaxNerd | 07/20/09
That is not the important metric  GuidingLight | 07/20/09
The percent loss is what counts ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
Verizon Is Great  readydave | 10/06/09
yep. But...  fairportfan | 10/06/09
Foreign Stupidity, lordjeremias = epic fail  trance2tec | 07/19/09
Math Simplified  John Zern | 07/19/09
IF country #1 . . .  JLHenry | 07/20/09
100% wrong  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
90B?  qcesarjr@... | 07/20/09
Yes, where B=M, its new math!  DeusExMachina | 07/22/09
would guess  desamuelson | 07/20/09
Verizon has more customers . . . .  alexburns | 07/21/09
words  dhays | 10/06/09
PuuuuLeazzzeee  jimgrigg@... | 10/06/09
There are 2 sides to statistics  kirasaw | 07/19/09
What's the line?  JLHenry | 07/20/09
irrelevant  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
Numbers...  the.seeker@... | 07/20/09
well said  20kwfence | 07/30/09
dead on, it's all about market share  flag0010@... | 10/06/09
Let me guess...  Bruizer | 07/20/09
European?  Eleutherios | 07/20/09
Great first post  tikigawd | 07/20/09
You would do well  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
*GASP*  tikigawd | 07/30/09
Some people...  agohige | 07/20/09
Millions, voting with their wallets....  arminw | 10/06/09
Millions more are not buying the iPhone  rtk | 10/06/09
Churn isn't just users leaving...  FrostyTS | 07/20/09
iPhones = 8% of AT&T's subscriber base  NameRedacted | 07/20/09
But those 6.5 million...  arminw | 10/06/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  manuzach | 07/19/09
Verizon saw the trend to data services and ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  MacMan375 | 07/19/09
Android  trance2tec | 07/19/09
The Android will end up like Linux  Pederson | 07/19/09
You have no idea what you are talking about  trance2tec | 07/19/09
Inconsistent application interfaces will doom Android.  Bruizer | 07/20/09
But that is misleading  trance2tec | 07/20/09
Actually, he has a good point  Speednet | 07/20/09
Palm is receiving quick success?  trance2tec | 07/20/09
"annihiates the iPhone."?  athynz | 07/20/09
I think you misunderstood  trance2tec | 07/20/09
Then  athynz | 07/20/09
Try it out.  trance2tec | 07/20/09
As Linux goes, so goes Android  sysin | 07/20/09
Mental implosion  Theli | 07/20/09
words again  dhays | 10/06/09
Hardware consistency  Theli | 07/20/09
Irrelevant  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
iPhone vs Verizon  ICUR12 | 07/20/09
Goes back to the churn-rate ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  SomeAmericanGuy | 07/19/09
While that is a great thought.  Rick_K | 07/19/09
Radios / MBA / AppleTV  Pederson | 07/19/09
Not really...  Rick_K | 07/19/09
you're a good example...  Pederson | 07/19/09
Let's not go there...  Rick_K | 07/19/09
"if you don't worship every Apple product, it's your fault"  markbn | 07/19/09
I tend to think...  Rick_K | 07/19/09
Which is what I am talking about  markbn | 07/20/09
@markbn, sadly, you're spot on.  Captiosus | 07/20/09
As much as it pains me to admit  athynz | 07/20/09
Re: Pederson  justanitguy | 07/20/09
RE: Justanitguy  dwasylyshen | 07/20/09
Not disagreeing with you in general but...  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
Why blow big bux on Apple TV?  Dr. John | 07/20/09
Only one little problem...  Rick_K | 07/20/09
Technological boundaries ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
heard of GSM?  observatron | 07/19/09
I have heard of and used GSM...  condelirios | 07/20/09
CDMA is going to be dying in two years.  aristotle_z | 07/20/09
Sorry, LTE=UMTS=WCDM=CDMAGSM=FAIL  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
To be fair . . .  stano360 | 07/22/09
You make it sound as if Apple went GSM in the beginning  athynz | 07/20/09
heard of CDMA?  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
CDMA Technically Superior - True But...  ManoaHI | 07/21/09
Posting in a vacuum  DeusExMachina | 07/23/09
answer this?  adr5@... | 07/22/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  wgrimes | 07/19/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  rawzd38 | 07/19/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  airtouch25 | 07/19/09
Yes, Apple would benefit ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
Technical limitations makes any change improbable.  UrbanBard | 07/19/09
iPhone manufacturing cost not "above $400"  mrbofus | 07/19/09
Pots & Kettles  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
ATT not really bad.  rvassar | 07/19/09
yes!  Pederson | 07/19/09
Agree. Verizon has is its own issues. -nt-  Bruizer | 07/20/09
Coverage?  amerist | 07/20/09
Compared to Verizon, I'll happily stay with AT&T  Captiosus | 07/20/09
AT&T's service isn't bad at all  athynz | 07/20/09
Edit  mdmower | 07/19/09
Edit two  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  snobknowitall | 07/19/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  vics43 | 07/19/09
can you  stevejg61 | 07/20/09
Yes but...  aristotle_z | 07/20/09
can YOU  athynz | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  zato_3@... | 07/19/09
Its only an issue in the USA  cy_starkman@... | 07/20/09
A few points to consider...  techconc | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  mkp108 | 07/20/09
Why no flood of users switching...  sicilias | 07/20/09
Like the multi-year  GuidingLight | 07/20/09
It not that it just works  stano360 | 07/20/09
Pick your poison: ATT vs. Verizon Wireless  ejhonda | 07/20/09
The great Apple spin machine.  Lunatic59 | 07/20/09
Which partner is dragging the other down?  techconc | 07/20/09
Whoa there, big boy.  Lunatic59 | 07/20/09
um... okay big fella?!?  techconc | 07/20/09
Sigh ...  Lunatic59 | 07/20/09
Sigh...  techconc | 07/21/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  mmparke@... | 07/20/09
Iphone is a small fish.  magallanes | 07/20/09
CITATION NEEDED  aristotle_z | 07/20/09
Small Fish?  aj.redmond@... | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  TaxNerd | 07/20/09
Fourth generation is the charm?  Lunatic59 | 07/20/09
Yep  gdgtgrl | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  docqualizer | 07/20/09
Bring on the 4G Sprint  shawncarpenter | 07/20/09
YES! Bring on the 4G Sprint!  NorCalMike | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  SpectreWriter | 07/20/09
Why does any of this really matter anyway?  tgschmidt | 07/20/09
Restraint of trade  pwatson | 07/20/09
That's a stretch!  stano360 | 07/20/09
As stated in other threads  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  WSguru | 07/20/09
Gadget effect  union pier | 07/20/09
AT&T coverage better than Sprint and Verizon  onephatcat@... | 07/20/09
Verizon on a Mac  brettaclark | 07/20/09
Nice Phone / Wrong Network  bonespiel@... | 07/20/09
Choice?  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
iPhone is 61% of the ATT smart phone product line  Millystone | 07/20/09
iPhone owners need the choice of Verizon.  3dtodd | 07/20/09
What SIM card?  DeusExMachina | 07/20/09
Why does it have to be on just one?  seaniepie | 07/20/09
Apple can only go to AT&T for World Wide Coverage  jpennie | 07/20/09
Help get ATT and Apple to get a divorce  schindyguy | 07/20/09
AT&T is great just like Verizon.  pwoon@... | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  gsteele531@... | 07/20/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  robertleeking@... | 07/20/09
If Verizon had iPhone I'd buy two today  Polyglot | 07/21/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  alexburns | 07/21/09
There was no "AT&T" network  stano360 | 07/22/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  Fletchguy | 07/21/09
As I recall ...  mwagner@... | 07/22/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  los54 | 07/29/09
BlackBerries "easier" on wireless networks?  robsaddressguard-zdnet@... | 08/21/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  dhays | 10/06/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  pwn0tr0n | 10/06/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  Masari.Jones | 10/06/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  Masari.Jones | 10/06/09
Apple may not dictate Verizon, but will be deciding if I stick with Verizon  Nate413 | 10/06/09
apple should sign deals with Verizon, Sprint ...  daniel.pereznet | 10/06/09
RE: Could Apple really dictate iPhone terms to Verizon Wireless?  fjm | 10/06/09

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