On TechRepublic: Five super-secret features in Windows 7
BNET Business Network:
BNET
TechRepublic
ZDNet

September 22nd, 2009

Torvalds calls Linux "bloated" and "scary." Is he right? [poll]

Posted by Sam Diaz @ 2:45 am

Categories: General, Linux

Tags: Linux, Open Source, UNIX, Operating Systems, Software, Sam Diaz

Has Linux become a victim of its own success?

At the LinuxCon conference in Portland this week, Linux creator Linus Torvalds dropped a bit of a bomb when he said that the open-source kernel had not become the “streamlined, hyper-efficient kernel I envisioned when I started writing Linux” and instead was now “bloated,” “huge” and “scary,” according to reports.

Bloated, huh? So does that mean that Linux is starting to look more like Windows? Matt Asay, who writes theĀ  Open Road blog on CNET says that, yes, Linux and Windows are starting to show signs of resemblance. He writes:

I suspect that successful open-source projects, generally, will increasingly look more like Microsoft as they grow. Simultaneously, Microsoft is slowly learning from open source, and I think it will capitulate, too.

Torvalds’ comments came after Jim Zemlin, executive director of the Linux Foundation, boasted some growth in Linux: 2.7 million lines of code added to the kernel in the last year with 10,923 lines added daily but only 5,647 deleted daily.

I’m not deeply entrenched into the Linux community so it’s tough for me to chime in here. I know Linux is powering smartphones out there and data centers, as well, and I know that both smartphones are doing more while data centers are becoming more efficient.

So I turn the debate over to you. Cast your vote and feel free to chime in.

What has Linux become?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

Sam Diaz

Sam Diaz is a senior editor at ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

Email Sam Diaz

Subscribe to Between the Lines via Email alerts or RSS.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 254 Talkback(s)
2000 maybe?..
Seemed like I saw it first on Mandrake 7.0, but I really wouldn't know. (Read the rest)
Posted by: JCitizen Posted on: 10/28/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Monolithic problems  honeymonster | 09/22/09
Exaclty my thoughts.  People | 09/22/09
kernal compile  PCLinuxOS(user) | 09/25/09
Drivers, etc... Time for a new OS  BillDem | 09/22/09
A new OS? What a novel idea ...  mwagner@... | 09/23/09
UNIX is not new...  barence773 | 09/30/09
New? Most of those things are how it already is.  AzuMao | 10/21/09
Hmm.... what major OS does that today... V I S T A!  Lerianis10 | 10/21/09
Wrong, it's not monolithic  magcomment | 09/22/09
The Linux Kenel is monolithic  shaunehunter | 09/22/09
Yes, it IS monolithic, but...  bendib | 09/22/09
Utter nonsense  honeymonster | 09/23/09
Actualy, Linux comes with all its drivers as modules.  Zogg | 09/23/09
Losing strategies. Even Linus recognize that now  honeymonster | 09/23/09
You have heard of "source code", right?  Zogg | 09/23/09
ummm  jdbukis@... | 09/23/09
"ummm" what?  Zogg | 09/23/09
HAWWW!!!!!!  bendib | 09/23/09
I agree Solaris QNX  MrStreams | 09/24/09
No, thank YOU mr streams  honeymonster | 09/24/09
Translation: "Thanks, but no thanks"  Zogg | 09/24/09
@Zogg: Thank you  honeymonster | 09/25/09
You ducked my point, honeymonster  Zogg | 09/25/09
Trade off  Rybec Thalin Arethdar | 09/24/09
Development culture?  metalktulu | 10/10/09
Of the day? RPM has been around since at least 2003..  AzuMao | 10/21/09
2000 maybe?..  JCitizen | 10/28/09
etc.  wjgrimm | 09/22/09
I don't know much about Linux but that reads as plausible.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 09/22/09
Just to be clear  honeymonster | 09/22/09
Memory  notsofast | 09/22/09
Linux's drivers target the underlying hardware, not the device's brand name  Zogg | 09/23/09
Windows  jdbukis@... | 09/23/09
You mean for some USB devices?  Zogg | 09/23/09
And others  de-void | 09/25/09
Linux modules aren't "linked into the OS"  Zogg | 09/25/09
huh? not all modules are compiled into the kernel  Clewin | 09/23/09
Why have you ignored the key conclusion?  pjotr123 | 09/22/09
I am sure your opinion will ....  ShadeTree | 09/22/09
Just for the record...  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Nit Pick and argue semantics but ....  ShadeTree | 09/23/09
I'm not talking semantics...  JaceMan | 09/24/09
Yes, but without the Linux kernel, all those ...  mwagner@... | 09/23/09
funny you should say that  JaceMan | 09/24/09
I think the key conclusion is that Torvalds is suffering from Alzheimers.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 09/22/09
Good points! (nt)  mwagner@... | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  slgard | 09/22/09
It already does  markdean | 09/22/09
Thats not virtualisation  shaunehunter | 09/22/09
wtf? win7?  Opcom_ | 09/22/09
Virtualization tools ARE operating systems ...  mwagner@... | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
well nowe that you mention it  Quebec-french | 09/22/09
oh, we expect great fun and laughter!  ericesque | 09/22/09
well good luck you will need it (nt)  Quebec-french | 09/22/09
sadly, you are probably right  markdean | 09/22/09
Of course, and...  Cheballestosabato | 09/22/09
Think about the comment you just made ericesque  Aragorn_z | 09/22/09
Microsoft becomes a better OS ..  stewymelb | 09/23/09
Okay the BS just got to deep.  deowll | 09/23/09
You are almost as funny as this story  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
This according to the Best Buy retail figures?  B.O.F.H. | 09/22/09
Read the article you linked to  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
So you still have hope?  B.O.F.H. | 09/22/09
You have something in common with ars technica  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
I would have a longer reply  nucrash | 09/22/09
How come you didn't do this?  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
You fail in Sarcasm  nucrash | 09/22/09
Re: Linux Bloated  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
Sorry - I have XP Pro SP3 running on a 4GB drive in my netbook  BillDem | 09/22/09
A couple of questions  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
Agreed in full...  cosuna | 09/22/09
Your sizes are off  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
Linux is bloated  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
And yet  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
He also failed to provide evidence that Windows lacks duplicate code.  T1Oracle | 09/22/09
@Viva & Oracle: Don't be too quick to assume.  de-void | 09/22/09
I make no such assumption  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
@Viva ... take LD with a pinch of salt! wink  de-void | 09/25/09
Vista had plenty of spyware  Mike_ | 09/25/09
and I'd lay money  rtk | 09/26/09
Not really...  cosuna | 09/22/09
Yes really  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
And you read that where?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Not really...  stewymelb | 09/23/09
Just 1 point  Viva la crank dodo | 09/23/09
Not really a prosecutor, are you?  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Am I supposed to be one?  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
Nice spin  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
You should know how to debate if you want to challenge people  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Its just giving people what they want  siglostaffords | 09/22/09
People don't want linux  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
"It just doesn't offer anything new or a good reason to even use it."  T1Oracle | 09/22/09
I have Ubuntu 9.04  mjolnar@... | 09/22/09
Good for you  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
You should be  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Which is my point!  mjolnar@... | 09/22/09
Just got my October TechNet magazine...  djchandler | 09/22/09
tell me this  siglostaffords | 09/22/09
How does your registry "break" precisely?  de-void | 09/22/09
The Windows Registry is fragile  Filker0_z | 09/23/09
Disk errors  rtk | 09/23/09
So it is the file sytem?  Mike_ | 09/25/09
No, the drive  rtk | 09/26/09
No - NTFS is pretty stable ... especially since Vista  de-void | 09/29/09
Registry woes  de-void | 09/29/09
Me too.  CPPDEV | 09/23/09
I'd just like to point out something  goff256 | 09/22/09
I'd like to point out  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
LOL! I can't stop laughing  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
Re: LOL I can't stop laughing  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
Answers  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
If it doesnt matter  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Re: Answers  JT82 | 09/22/09
Hrm  JT82 | 09/22/09
Re: "Turn for the Worst"  step69 | 09/22/09
Correction  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
You called him out how?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Why?  People | 09/22/09
What do you mean why? (NT)  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
You may hate linux, and by may I mean you do  goff256 | 09/22/09
You couldn't be happier?  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Right!  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
But why would this make you happy?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Is this really...  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Sadly  Viva la crank dodo | 09/22/09
Nobody wins from a split marketplace.  de-void | 09/22/09
Hardly  Viva la crank dodo | 09/23/09
Utter nonsense  de-void | 09/29/09
Excuse me...  JaceMan | 09/24/09
ROTFLMAO!!!  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
Why?  People | 09/22/09
I just said why in the post (NT)  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
LOLOLOLOLOL!!  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
And your funny because.....  Rezinunts | 09/22/09
Let's see the spin  mikefarinha | 09/22/09
What is there to spin?  storm14k | 09/22/09
Here ya go  Tim Patterson | 09/22/09
Can the average person..  Snarfiorix | 09/22/09
Maybe or maybe not  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
Re: remote desktop  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Jhuskie | 09/22/09
did you really just say that?  ericesque | 09/22/09
Re-read please  Jhuskie | 09/22/09
Don't let his criticism shake you  JaceMan | 09/22/09
Linus's visiion  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
What's scary is.....  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
SO you've pegged linux as a niche OS. Great!  ericesque | 09/22/09
Question  Viva la crank dodo | 09/23/09
an answer & a question  paladin2 | 09/24/09
Some Answers  argon0 | 09/25/09
That's not scarey  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
Beauty of open source can be seen both ways...  Spiritusindomit@... | 09/22/09
Linux is just right sized  Linux Geek | 09/22/09
...  Azathothh | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  gmiller@... | 09/22/09
The really funny thing....  storm14k | 09/22/09
What is funny  Loverock Davidson | 09/22/09
The old 'too many cooks' scenario  The 'G-Man.' | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  rhomp2002@... | 09/22/09
So what ...  nottheusual1 | 09/22/09
Exactly....  Rezinunts | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  mpsii | 09/22/09
Who in here can actually judge this?  ZaphodBreebleBrox | 09/22/09
Why Torvalds is wrong -  compusolver | 09/22/09
Uh, what?  Tim Patterson | 09/22/09
Let's not forget  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
Trying to be objective  scottj3 | 09/22/09
RE: Why Torvalds is wrong  chriswyatt | 09/22/09
It's only as "bloated" as you want or need it to be  markdean | 09/22/09
Here's a thought: let hardware makers make a standard OS kernel  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
What intel is doing is using Linux as a BIOS replacement.  B.O.F.H. | 09/22/09
Coreboot is not what I'm talking about  Joe_Raby | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Jhuskie | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  chameleon@... | 09/22/09
compare and contrast  mehinindiana | 09/22/09
Good point. No comparison.  janitorman | 09/22/09
There's a move within Microsoft to resolve that  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
One comment  pdickey43@... | 09/22/09
I don't know of any major sites that use Real anymore  Joe_Raby | 09/22/09
Real is on the decline  de-void | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Jhuskie | 09/22/09
Kernel vs. Distro & Code Improvement  jcfrench | 09/22/09
Default vs. customized kernels  dking@... | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  JaceMan | 09/22/09
What are you people talking about?  zefficace | 09/22/09
only two Linux smartphones according to writer?  mrbofus | 09/22/09
Open Source On Far Devices Than Closed Proprietary! grin  i2fun@... | 09/25/09
RE: Things change when you let them go.  sfaid | 09/22/09
And what is the bloat free alternative?  nilotpal_c | 09/22/09
Yes you can!  Cheballestosabato | 09/22/09
Linux bloat  pwatson | 09/22/09
Yes  Cheballestosabato | 09/22/09
He didn't think before he posted...lmao  storm14k | 09/22/09
RE: Linux Bloat  drednot57 | 09/22/09
RE: Linux Bloat  Cheballestosabato | 09/24/09
RE: The Rock Lover  Twibble | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Splatus | 09/22/09
Nacho Libre!  Cheballestosabato | 09/22/09
Applications rule, not kernels (nt)  dnheller | 09/22/09
Yes, It's the applications and programs  flyking | 09/22/09
Loverock needs a new hobbie  shaunehunter | 09/22/09
RE: Linux Bloat  psion@... | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Jonkaare | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Aboleyn | 09/22/09
I think the kernel can be pretty small  stevey_d | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Naryan | 09/22/09
he's talking about the kernel source needing factoring - nothing to do with  stevey_d | 09/22/09
Agreed! In fact  Louis.Ross@... | 09/22/09
Shiny Code....  Narg | 09/22/09
Challenges and Opportunities  emmerc@... | 09/22/09
Compile the kernel?  tonymcs@... | 09/22/09
OEMs could indeed compile  Louis.Ross@... | 09/22/09
Not surprising; the more people you let code, unsupervised,  HypnoToad72 | 09/22/09
What's wrong with being functional?  drednot57 | 09/22/09
My Ubuntu just works better than my Vista...  CPPDEV | 09/22/09
Might want to have  rtk | 09/23/09
All three of my Vista machines are brand new.  CPPDEV | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  gammag | 09/22/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  baumer | 09/23/09
It's not about bloat  Aussie_Troll | 09/23/09
Stop the trolling  patibulo | 09/23/09
Why would you call Torvald a troll?  rtk | 09/23/09
This is a natural progression...  apexwebmaster | 09/23/09
Hypocrite  croberts | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  mateokow@... | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  darkprince.1979@... | 09/23/09
I think that Debian/Ubuntu meets your challenge.  CPPDEV | 09/23/09
Some distros already do a lot of QC in selecting included apps.  drednot57 | 09/26/09
Deja Vu all over again  kromkowski@... | 09/23/09
Linus has a point  Filker0_z | 09/23/09
Thoughtful and accurate reply.  CPPDEV | 09/23/09
There's always a time where you have to rethink.  egiova | 09/23/09
Self-criticism is always good  UAC nanny screen | 09/24/09
Bloat  Ceridan | 09/23/09
Let's just face facts ...  mwagner@... | 09/23/09
Deleted / moved by user (NT)  Zogg | 09/23/09
Welcome, Linus...  dave@... | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  mejohnsn | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  skywarp04@... | 09/23/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  siglostaffords | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  OhKrud | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  sbeg@... | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  pidgeon | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  amob23 | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  dch1969 | 09/24/09
It IS Huge  Uncle Stoat | 09/24/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Matt Gabriel | 09/26/09
You can use smaller Linux kernels if you want!  ArtInvent | 09/30/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  wrn599@... | 10/02/09
Linux and the community  charliec@... | 10/09/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Lim Boon Chuan | 10/16/09
RE: Torvalds calls Linux  Lithius | 10/21/09
You, apparently, since you clicked on the article.  AzuMao | 10/21/09

What do you think?

SponsoredWhite Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

advertisement

Recent Entries

advertisement

Archives

Favorite Links

ZDNet Blogs

White Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

SmartPlanet

Click Here