On MovieTome: The 10 worst movies of 2009 so far!
BNET Business Network:
BNET
TechRepublic
ZDNet

September 24th, 2009

Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat

Posted by Larry Dignan @ 5:44 am

Categories: General, Linux, Open Source, Red Hat

Tags: Red Hat Inc., Linus Torvalds, Linux, UNIX, Operating Systems, Open Source, Software, Larry Dignan

Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds’ contention that Linux has become bloated. Whitehurst said that Linux is growing and becoming more full-featured. The bloat will come when features are added that no one wants.

Whitehurst addressed the Torvalds comments Wednesday on the company’s second quarter earnings conference call.

Also see: Torvalds calls Linux “bloated” and “scary.” Is he right? · Does it matter that “Linux is bloated”?

Here’s the key question from Brent Williams, an analyst at Benchmark, and Whitehurst’s answer.

Williams: I saw an interview with [Linus Torvalds] the other day and he was suggesting the idea that in some respects, the core Linux kernel is getting a little bit bloated and that there’s just so much stuff going in there and I think of course Linus speaks his mind at any given moment and doesn’t bother himself with consistency from day to day in his thoughts, but is this reflective of any maturity in the evolution of the kernel technologically? Is this suggesting maybe that a lot more focus is going to surrounding capabilities? I mean, is this indicative of a change in the focus of the kernel development community and can we look at any sort of hints there about where Linux might evolve and how that might end up helping Linux attack new markets, or anything like that?

Whitehurst: I guess my simple answer to that is as Linux has continued to grow and its applicability continues to expand, there’s just more feature functionality that people are looking for to be built into the operating system. I have not had a conversation with him about the comment. I don’t think of that as bloat. Certainly bloat is when you start adding feature functionalities that people don’t want, and certainly the nature of Linux where users are the key contributors, I do think Linux is growing but I think it is much more indicative of the fact that its’ continued added features that people do want and the key differentiator is it can continue to do that in a very modular way, so I actually look at the growth as much more of a reflection that it continues to add features that people do want, and that’s a good thing.

So who’s right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won’t every operating system have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn’t it the normal course of business to add features?

However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his bloat warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things: It’s hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it.

Is a bet that every app is a Web app a good one for Google?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

Larry DignanLarry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and Editorial Director of ZDNet sister site TechRepublic. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

Email Larry Dignan

Subscribe to Between the Lines via Email alerts or RSS.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 144 Talkback(s)
Agree 100%
When I hear people claiming you have to recompile the kernel any time you want to add a new device driver or complain about "seg faults" I generally tell them that the 1990s called asking for their th... (Read the rest)
Posted by: jasonp@... Posted on: 09/28/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Linux distro appliances are the future  Christian_<>< | 09/24/09
Which explains why  GuidingLight | 09/24/09
Remember when Linus said that...  JT82 | 09/24/09
The kernel IS Linux!  mwagner@... | 09/24/09
Which explains why  IT_User | 09/24/09
We are implementing Win7 right now. I'm on  socialism=nowhere | 09/24/09
To each his own  IT_User | 09/24/09
Cloud  sackbut | 09/24/09
Bad analogy  IT_User | 09/24/09
IBM Declined to Renew their M$ Licenses for Vista! grin  i2fun@... | 09/24/09
All good points...  gnesterenko | 09/24/09
my 80watt laptop will run every new game out  shadfurman | 09/24/09
Long post but quite useless. Keep on dreaming though.  transposeIT | 09/24/09
it will be interesting to see how far the dumb terminal come back turns out  bearlyworking | 09/25/09
Hey he's good at that...nt  socialism=nowhere | 09/24/09
Linux is bloated...  linuxer | 09/26/09
wising up?  frd050101@... | 09/24/09
Yes, but only when Linux reaches 10% market share ...  de-void | 09/24/09
I'm pretty sure thats what he was saying... (nt)  shadfurman | 09/24/09
Ah, the obscurity by numbers myth again...  UAC nanny screen | 09/25/09
Wising up...  linuxer | 09/26/09
Any OS can have a worm/virus  A Gray | 09/24/09
no way!  shadfurman | 09/24/09
Too much to Drink loverock?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/24/09
When?...we have been hearing that for years...  socialism=nowhere | 09/24/09
That's because  IT_User | 09/24/09
I agree, for now, the future of linux in in devices and servers (nt)  shadfurman | 09/24/09
Linux is growing, you can see its effects  jvin248 | 09/25/09
For Linux to experience...  bjbrock | 09/24/09
I don't want to alarm you...  cabdriverjim | 09/24/09
Excuses...excuses...excuses...  transposeIT | 09/24/09
Its not "bloated" per se..  JT82 | 09/24/09
Try Windows 7 (nt)  CobraA1 | 09/24/09
I did. I prefer Vista SP2  JT82 | 09/24/09
As an Ubuntu user ...  de-void | 09/24/09
Aero peek and snap werent that functional..  JT82 | 09/24/09
I love it.  CobraA1 | 09/24/09
And I say use whatever works..  JT82 | 09/24/09
humm  CobraA1 | 09/24/09
hmmmm....again  TtfnJohn | 09/26/09
The fact that you have to upgrade your OS' kernel ...  de-void | 09/24/09
You misunderstood...  JT82 | 09/24/09
"do a make" - there's your problem, right there.  de-void | 09/24/09
This is only because no one took the time to make a precompiled binary..  JT82 | 09/24/09
80% huh?  jasonp@... | 09/28/09
Loadable Modules and Dynamic Loading  eengnerd | 09/24/09
HAL is obsolete...  cabdriverjim | 09/24/09
You still don't understand monolithic vs modular, do you ?  magcomment | 09/24/09
Agree 100%  jasonp@... | 09/28/09
You obviously have never used Windows in a quite a while...  transposeIT | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
I'd go with Linux too.  storm14k | 09/24/09
Not really  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
How, when, where  IT_User | 09/24/09
I would say  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
As of this morning  IT_User | 09/24/09
Keywords:....  htotten | 09/24/09
Yeah, could be  IT_User | 09/24/09
And that is why IBM is not renewing it's  mjolnar@... | 09/24/09
I agree...  storm14k | 09/24/09
Too funny!  ITLeader | 09/24/09
Isn't this about Bloat?  SkaldedKat | 09/24/09
Go back to the help desk..the phones need manned.  JT82 | 09/24/09
What does Microsoft Windows have to do with this?  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
Less useful?  JT82 | 09/24/09
Linus irrelevant?  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
Irrelevant ? Bloat is only relative.  dimonic | 09/24/09
Loverock it 4 pm, its time you take your meds again  lightingrod | 09/24/09
trojans/viruses/malware/spyware just works - thanks MS  deaf_e_kate | 09/24/09
Wrong  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
Why is everyone else always wrong Loverock and  lightingrod | 09/24/09
Elementary, my dear Watson.  Lester Young | 09/25/09
So whats your benchmark for what is considered bloat?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/25/09
Um  jdbukis@... | 09/24/09
Thats true...but as another poster mentioned..  JT82 | 09/24/09
The help desk is closed ... Lovenuts, sorry Loverock  lightingrod | 09/24/09
My apologizes to John Goodman  maskman01 | 09/24/09
Most companies are envying Red Hat's bottom line.  peter_erskine@... | 09/24/09
Link is to The Register  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
How about Google Finance?  sgtrock111 | 09/24/09
Erm ... not quite  de-void | 09/24/09
Everyone has an oppinion  Li1t | 09/24/09
They do  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
But as usual..  JT82 | 09/24/09
Back up what?  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
and cue the ad hominem attacks  JT82 | 09/24/09
Its not an attack  Loverock Davidson | 09/24/09
Really?  Viva la crank dodo | 09/25/09
So, you have proved you know very little about  mjolnar@... | 09/24/09
Linux is not going away anytime soon!  mwagner@... | 09/24/09
Getting Scary and Bloated Different than "It is"! wink  i2fun@... | 09/24/09
I think many missed the point Linus was making...  LiquidLearner | 09/24/09
It simply is the founders early-warning call  JT82 | 09/24/09
Agreed  LiquidLearner | 09/24/09
I think you're right...  hmoulding@... | 09/24/09
Agree ...  George Mitchell | 09/25/09
This is fun, pass the popcorn! *NT*  mikefarinha | 09/24/09
The biggest problem I see with linux (distro)  kcredden2 | 09/24/09
Never mind the bloat just fix Ubuntu freezing.  a foot in both camps | 09/24/09
check out Ubuntu forums  tmsbrdrs | 09/24/09
"Features no one wants"???  rberman | 09/24/09
For some funny reason  magallanes | 09/24/09
Linux is just now reaching its potential  compusolver | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  darkmoonman | 09/24/09
Well, which?  raggi | 09/24/09
Kernel philosophy and bloat  rt@... | 09/24/09
This is natural progression...  apexwebmaster | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  eengnerd | 09/24/09
Precisely  de-void | 09/24/09
Sorry, Over 90% of drivers are already modules!  peter_erskine@... | 09/24/09
Idiot  Macintoshtoffy | 09/24/09
Linux Bloated  Budster1 | 09/24/09
Its easy, you just use it.  peter_erskine@... | 09/24/09
command line  tmsbrdrs | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  insanish1 | 09/24/09
Was this not inevitable?  josephmartins | 09/24/09
Good point - it happened to java.  peter_erskine@... | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  km4hr@... | 09/24/09
In theory  Graham Ellison | 09/24/09
What does BLOAT mean, anyway?  mwagner@... | 09/24/09
Move on to a new generation  raggi | 09/24/09
Why does that suck?  Lester Young | 09/25/09
So,,, Adding features & functions = bloat?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/24/09
Whitehurst and Torvalds are debating the kernel.  B.O.F.H. | 09/24/09
Yeah, and no one says the Windows kernel is bloated.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/24/09
Well, that's the crux of the issue...  Zogg | 09/24/09
RE: whatever floats your bloat  bearlyworking | 09/24/09
It's a bit bloated.  CobraA1 | 09/24/09
the lack of "bloat" is why I DON'T use linux regularly  shadfurman | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  The Rifleman | 09/24/09
Linux is clever for sure  pcguy777 | 09/24/09
technologies  bklooste | 09/24/09
Linux is dead in 5 years it doesnt matter  bklooste | 09/24/09
This has been predicted by many  Viva la crank dodo | 09/24/09
AND...  Kusuriya | 09/24/09
AND... "The Internet?"  Ole Man | 09/24/09
it's probably safe to say  bearlyworking | 09/25/09
Who is right.  Kusuriya | 09/24/09
Conditional Compilation is the Key  bgavin | 09/24/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  elderlybloke | 09/24/09
bloat  homeblend | 09/25/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  PeterPac | 09/25/09
I don't get it...  pwn0tr0n | 09/25/09
RE: Red Hat CEO vs. Torvalds: More Linux features don't equate to bloat  Diane84 | 09/27/09

What do you think?

SponsoredWhite Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

advertisement

Recent Entries

advertisement

Archives

Favorite Links

ZDNet Blogs

White Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

SmartPlanet

  • Thought-provoking progressive ideas on diverse topics that intersect with technology, business, and life, and matter to the world at large. Visit SmartPlanet
  • More from IBM
  • Innovate your business' process model, play against the market, compete against others on our scoreboards and WIN! Try INNOV8 2.0: A BPM Simulator
  • Enabling Real-World Business Transformation through IBM Service Management Read the EMA Analyst Report
Click Here