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December 13th, 2007

Opera files complaint against Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle; CTO makes Web standards case

Posted by Larry Dignan @ 4:26 am

Categories: General, Government, Microsoft, Web Technology

Tags: Opera Software, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Microsoft Corp., Standards, European Union, Microsoft Windows, Web Browsers, Quality, Operating Systems, Software

Updated with Opera CTO, Microsoft comments: Opera Software said Thursday it is filing a complaint against Microsoft in the European Union alleging the software giant is abusing its power and tying Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system. Opera also has a beef about Microsoft’s support for Web standards.

In its complaint, Opera argues that:

“Microsoft is abusing its dominant position by tying its browser, Internet Explorer, to the Windows operating system and by hindering interoperability by not following accepted Web standards. Opera has requested the Commission to take the necessary actions to compel Microsoft to give consumers a real choice and to support open Web standards in Internet Explorer.”

This argument is sounding pretty familiar as Microsoft has repeatedly been in hot water over tying IE and Windows together. That’s what the scrum with the Department of Justice years ago was about.

However, Opera is likely to find a more receptive audience in the EU, which isn’t exactly a fan of Microsoft’s. I’m no lawyer, but if the EU had a beef with tying Windows Media Player and Windows together it only stands to reason that it will have a similar ruling about IE.

Opera requests that the EU do the following:

  • Force Microsoft to unbundle IE and Windows or preinstall alternative browsers on the desktop (read Opera);
  • Require that Microsoft follows “fundamental and open Web standards accepted by the Web-authoring communities.”

Opera argues that Microsoft hasn’t adhered to its own public statements about supporting Web standards. Opera alleges that Microsoft has tried to “embrace, extend and extinguish” these standards. For good measure, Opera’s complaint dings Microsoft on trying to control standards, increasing support cost and exposing users to security risks.

In a statement, Opera’s general counsel Jason Hoida says:

“The European Court of First Instance confirmed in September that Microsoft has illegally tied Windows Media Player to Windows. We are simply asking the Commission to apply these same, clear principles to the Internet Explorer tie, a tie that has even more profound effects on consumers and innovation. We are confident that the Commission understands the significance of the Internet Explorer tie and will take the necessary actions to restore competition and consumer choice in the browser market.”

Translation: The EU ruling in September left the door open for more lawsuits so Opera is taking its shot.

Update: Opera CTO HÃ¥kon Wium Lie said in an interview that the EU competition committee, which has said it will review Opera’s complaint, may be inclined to agree with the bundling argument. But the real nut of this compliant is about Web standards and whether Microsoft follows them.

Lie, who also made his case in an open letter, noted that Microsoft is in on Web standard discussions and often supports them. Microsoft’s practices, however, tell a different story. When asked for specifics, Lie said the big issues are:

  • CSS (Cascading Style Sheets);
  • XHTML;
  • And DOM (document object model).

“Microsoft often participates and even promises to support these standards, but we find it often isn’t the case. We find bugs and programmers have to code around (Microsoft),” says Lie.

Since Microsoft holds the dominant market share and doesn’t support standards in practice, “we work on standards in vain and can’t use those specifications.”

“We’ve seen enough of this going on. (Microsoft) could have easily fixed the issues highlighted by developers,” says Lie.

Now these arguments may be tricky to prove. Microsoft will say we support Web standards. Microsoft could even use “our coding isn’t so hot” argument as a defense. But Lie thinks he has a case.

To illustrate his points, Lie sent me to the Web Standards Project, a grassroots organization focused on Web Standards. The Web Standards Project has an Acid 2 test, which evaluates how well a browser sticks to Web standards. Simply put, Opera and Firefox 3 pass. Firefox 2 and IE 7 don’t. And IE 7 is way off.

If a browser is on target with Web standards and rendering you’re supposed to get a smiley face.

Here’s Firefox 2:

smiley1.png

Here’s IE 7:

smiley2.png

Here’s Opera 9:

smiley3.png

Will smiley faces sway an EU competition committee? I don’t know. But these arguments over Web standards and backing up words with actions should be interesting.

Update 2: Microsoft has issued a response:

“It’s important to note that computer users have complete freedom of choice to use and set as default any browser they wish, including Opera, and PC manufacturers can also preinstall any browser as the default on any Windows machine they sell. Microsoft is committed to ensuring that freedom through our Windows Principles. Internet Explorer has been an integral part of the Windows operating system for over a decade and supports a wide range of web standards. We will of course cooperate with any inquiries into these issues, but we believe the inclusion of the browser into the operating system benefits consumers, and that consumers and PC manufacturers already are free to choose to use any browsers they wish.”

 

 

Larry DignanLarry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and Smart Planet as well as Editorial Director of ZDNet sister site TechRepublic. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle
this is funny, in july ms agreed to offer a user choice screen on installing windows for there prefered browser that was ratified in the september session and a final offering released in novermeber t... (Read the rest)
Posted by: nanotm Posted on: 12/16/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Message has been deleted.  wayne62682 | 12/13/07
Read the article.  Henrik Moller | 12/13/07
I *did* read the article  wayne62682 | 12/13/07
You didn't read the article, or you are misrepresenting it on purpose  bahera | 12/13/07
Basically...  dbisse@... | 12/13/07
why don't they have to go to the PC manufacturer to get it done?  bmerc | 12/14/07
I Guess Wayne means If it Ain't M$, it Ain't NUTTHIN!  drprodny | 12/13/07
You are agreeing that being the default browser is an unfair advantage then  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
yes, BUT  Update victim | 12/13/07
Han't been for Firefox.  ShadeTree | 12/13/07
Sure, it has been for Firefox  mejohnsn | 12/19/07
moot point  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
lulz  TacoSauce | 12/13/07
No  Update victim | 12/13/07
cry me a river  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Oh god another 12 year old  bmerc | 12/14/07
The factory installed stereo  alaniane@... | 12/13/07
You remember...  dbisse@... | 12/13/07
You remember...  james.faction | 12/13/07
I probably would not  alaniane@... | 12/14/07
Factory Stereos...  Wolfie2K3 | 12/13/07
Wolfie . . .  JLHenry | 12/13/07
thats really an interesting point  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
I wasn't making  alaniane@... | 12/17/07
Wrong,  Update victim | 12/13/07
wah wah wah....  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Hero  safesax2002 | 12/13/07
Too Many Standards  wjkahlssmd@... | 12/13/07
Silly Silly Silly Fighting the past is not going to help  Homer111 | 12/13/07
Browsing  Horus418 | 01/05/08
That's not the point  bkreps | 12/13/07
I'm calling BS  wolf_z | 12/13/07
What?!  bkreps | 12/13/07
Your argument that Microsoft is now free to  Update victim | 12/13/07
Re: That's not the point  wayne62682 | 12/13/07
Apple needs to be next  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Huh? You're delusional.  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
your missing the point  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
I think you are misunderstanding the problem  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Well, if, as you say, Opera is a joke, why does MS have to FORCE you to use  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
IE is free, so if Firefox etc...choose what you want  GeiselS@... | 12/13/07
But, why does IE have to be a FORCED install that can not be un-installed??  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
It can be, sort of.  techr@... | 12/13/07
No, not quite  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Hardly the same.  Dr. John | 12/13/07
Isn't that only for auto update?  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Not to my knowledge . . .  JLHenry | 12/13/07
IE is not free, it's bundled into the price of Windows  voska | 12/13/07
Exactly!  sdwilliams2009 | 12/13/07
But wait, who should decide the default browsers that everybody gets.  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Except you can't remove IE,  msdead | 12/13/07
There's more....  thungurknifur | 12/14/07
keep the internet profits up can't be removed. I wonder why?  thomas.smith18@... | 12/14/07
Ok... but big difference IE6 and 7 are totally free!!!!!!! Opera with the  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Obviously,  alaniane@... | 12/13/07
your logic is ok , except for the fact that  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Youd have an os that couldnt do anything except run software you installed  bmerc | 12/14/07
It wasn't an attack  alaniane@... | 12/14/07
I'm not saying they  alaniane@... | 12/14/07
Opera is 100% free  kftgr | 12/13/07
ok ok... but my friend has operal.. and  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
ROFLCOPTER  bmerc | 12/14/07
The older versions had a "pay" version, but . . .  JLHenry | 12/13/07
Well, I sent a comment about  Update victim | 12/13/07
Come on ZDNet, his post was not that bad, maybe we disagreed, but  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
It lacked value.  bkreps | 12/13/07
Still, who gets to decide that it "lacked value". ZDNet has been allowing  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
I imagine...  bkreps | 12/13/07
Anybody could have reported this...  sdwilliams2009 | 12/13/07
Opera is right  anonymuos | 12/15/07
Opera is right, and wrong  baljeetd | 12/15/07
Re: Opera is right, and wrong  james.faction | 01/08/08
Too Easy.  msackett | 12/13/07
One small difference..  crash89 | 12/13/07
Apple is not a convicted monopolist  bahera | 12/13/07
No such thing  voska | 12/13/07
Come, quit playing with words. When you are a monopoly, you must live by a  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
While you are correct  voska | 12/13/07
And, nobody was saying it was illegal. Play with words all you want, but,  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Yes they were  voska | 12/13/07
No, they were just saying that MS broke the law for monopolies.  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Yes, Yes They Were  samoanbiscuit@... | 12/13/07
Actually that been handled like Ma Bell  techr@... | 12/13/07
We only have one supplies  voska | 12/13/07
Your "REASONABLE" is NOT reasonable to  Update victim | 12/13/07
Windows reasonably priced  Rocker452 | 12/13/07
For most users  alaniane@... | 12/15/07
You are legally incorrect  blarman_z | 12/13/07
True,  Update victim | 12/13/07
Its Business  NoThomas | 12/13/07
Legally, a corporation is considered an entity  alaniane@... | 12/13/07
mmmh  anacardo | 12/13/07
Agree 100%  SpikeyMike | 12/13/07
Not a fan of Opera  jorjitop | 12/13/07
Lindows lives  sdwilliams2009 | 12/13/07
who cares  CrazY_UKRaiNiaN | 12/13/07
Re: Make something better that will kill.....  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Still, if IE is a better product, why the need to bundle???? They should  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
It comes down to one thing folks.  Intellihence | 12/13/07
Windows works faster without IE  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Not free - free demo  techr@... | 12/13/07
Everything  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Then so will Apple, Linux, ect  GuidingLight | 12/13/07
Message has been deleted.  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Why?!?! No insults, no cursing, on topic, WTF?!?!  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
Maybe, it is that if you say your name really fast, it souds like My Cu. .  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Maybe I included a link in my post?  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
I'd love for IE to be available  starcannon@... | 12/13/07
It is if you hava a windows license  reugen | 12/13/07
Maybe not....  Mectron | 12/13/07
For Apple to be a monopoly  alaniane@... | 12/13/07
Depends...  rapson | 12/13/07
Rinse, repeat ?  BitTwiddler | 12/13/07
Yes Yes Yes!  dfolk | 12/13/07
Interesting ...  mwagner@... | 12/13/07
But, wait, if those "extra" features add so much value, why does MS have to  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
a few reasons  NoThomas | 12/13/07
Wow, but wait, MS told us there WAS NO advantage to bundling. And NOW, you  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Oh, and on the timing of the lawsuit. That is EASY. MS just decided to let  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
RE: a few reasons - rebuttal  Update victim | 12/13/07
Read the story  mlambert890@... | 12/17/07
You must be..  SpikeyMike | 12/13/07
Then Opera should be suing the web developers, not MS. NT  ye | 12/13/07
You've got it backwards  Update victim | 12/13/07
Propaganda and trust  dfolk | 12/13/07
You are looking at it the wrong way  roaming | 12/13/07
Unbundle? Why would we want that?  notlehs | 12/13/07
There is no technical reason to bundle the browser with the OS, in fact  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Re:  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
How do you get Opera?  voska | 12/13/07
I sure hope that doesn't happen  notlehs | 12/13/07
OEMs will NOT deliver computers without a browser. If MS were to chose to  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Big presumption  techr@... | 12/13/07
OEMs do not want to give multiple options that might confuse the customer,  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
why don't the OEMs bundle FireFox and Opera?  bmerc | 12/14/07
Then the loser, say FF, could sue the OEM instead of Microsoft.  ye | 12/13/07
Don't worry, all OEMs will install a browser by default.  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
File manager  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
And, for those that don't like Konquerer, there is Nautilus, for those that  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
But as far as I know  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
Try Thunar, it is the default with XUbuntu. I use it instead of Nautilus  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
I've tried it  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
I think their point is  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
I've removed IE entirely  voska | 12/13/07
Well then if MS simply made an IE uninstaller  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
I noticed the speed increase too  Mike Hunt | 12/13/07
way to go Opera!  Linux Geek | 12/13/07
No monopoly, no abuse  techr@... | 12/13/07
the courts have spoken!  Linux Geek | 12/13/07
When a person walks into a  I. Kidya Knott | 12/14/07
That's exactly what we're talking about  Mike Hunt | 12/14/07
Outsanding!  TechExec2 | 12/13/07
You really should download and try Opera. It is not free, as Google now  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
I'll do that  TechExec2 | 12/13/07
Do you have a search choice?  techr@... | 12/13/07
You have choice, it is just that Google is the default, and they get paid  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
RE  Rocker452 | 12/13/07
Re: Do I have a search choice  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Opera IS free  kftgr | 12/13/07
Sorry, I was typing too fast, it shoud read "is NOW free". I think it is  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
More whining and complaining  GeiselS@... | 12/13/07
Your words with IE: If IE is so good then it would stand on its own.  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Isn't it fun to bash Microsoft?  bjbrock | 12/13/07
I agree on that last bit  starcannon@... | 12/13/07
The most interesting part of this is  starcannon@... | 12/13/07
Too little too late  Rick_R | 12/13/07
on compliance with standards  starcannon@... | 12/13/07
Totally wrong!  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Windows Update doesn't work with Firefox. Need more proof?  scoobyJ | 12/13/07
Windows Update doesn't work with IE either  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
More and more HTTPS sites sniff for IE  jsjag1 | 12/13/07
What?  techr@... | 12/13/07
It was not a plan but it is a problem  jsjag1 | 12/13/07
I guess Opera is dead  crypt2121 | 12/13/07
No, the complaint amounts to.  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  RobzyC | 12/13/07
Ok, so if it is SOOO eay to install an alternative and bundlin is NOT an  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
The advantage is promoting your product  techr@... | 12/13/07
Ok, so you do agree that it is a BIG advantage to be the default browser  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Oh, and IE actually WAS the default browser on Apple for a while. We could  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Spot on DonnieBoy !  Intellihence | 12/13/07
Name ONE  Max_in_OH | 12/13/07
In jest  dragosani | 12/13/07
Must be DOS 6  techr@... | 12/13/07
The problem is that IE is a FORCED install that you can not remove. The OEM  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
You can actually  alaniane@... | 12/15/07
Why Now  andycher | 12/13/07
Very simple. With the recent EU decision against MS, and MS deciding to NOT  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
And since  Larry DignanZDNet Moderator | 12/13/07
Yep Microsoft made a new version of Windows without Windows Media Player...  BroGnorik | 12/13/07
It is unfortunate that  mhenriday | 12/13/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  Willard234 | 12/13/07
I just don't understand  Beat a Dead Horse | 12/13/07
It is just that with IE being the FORCED default, and not being removable,  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
How can it be other than default...  techr@... | 12/13/07
First, when you are a monopoly, a different set of rules apply. But, in any  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Re: I just can't understand  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Opera is a Hypocrite  oceanicdemigod | 12/13/07
Two HUGE differences. Apple is NOT a monopoly. You CAN uninstall Safari.  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
And technically, neither is Microsoft ...  mwagner@... | 12/13/07
The latest legal rulings  Michael Kelly | 12/13/07
You might wish that you could re-write antitrust laws. But, you are trying  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Really  jsjag1 | 12/13/07
Wasn't it 10,000 and not 110,000? At least according to...  ye | 12/13/07
Yes 10,000  jsjag1 | 12/13/07
Who was talking aboyt monopolies? They have the same business practice.  oceanicdemigod | 12/13/07
The law is very clear. If you are a monopoly, there is an extra set of  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
3 MB for your IE?  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Why uninstall?  kyron.gustafson@... | 12/13/07
You have the answer in your post  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
True Web Designers Design For BOTH not demand you use one or the other  oceanicdemigod | 12/13/07
Since you claim to be a web designer  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
You're an idiot !  Intellihence | 12/13/07
Boo Hoo ...  mwagner@... | 12/13/07
But wait. Users will STILL be FREE to chose IE. Is Microsoft afraid of user  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Re:BooHoo  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
why does Firefox produce exactly the same results on my workstation as IE7?  bmerc | 12/14/07
In reality, "standards" are always set by market share  Ole Man | 12/14/07
Master Joe Says...  MasterJoe | 12/13/07
Hey, that is SIMPLE. MS must abide by EU law if they want to do business in  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Microsoft became dominant by being the best at what it does  Ole Man | 12/14/07
IE  whooliebacon | 12/13/07
Well you are wrong there  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Think about it..  SpikeyMike | 12/13/07
Opera, you've just cheaply bought your advertisements for the month  Boot_Agnostic | 12/13/07
Not that cheap - Lawyers fees happy  oceanicdemigod | 12/13/07
IF Opera doesn't find a way to get monetary compensation from MS  Boot_Agnostic | 12/14/07
Rediculous Arguement.. Standards are changing every two weeks!!!!  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
perhaps your standards change that often  shis-ka-bob | 12/13/07
why is expression web.. getting such incredible reviews then  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
I'm not an opera fan any longer  jnoooo | 12/13/07
Good for you!  oceanicdemigod | 12/13/07
A man with a big ego!  Blogsy | 12/13/07
That means you never were an Opera fan  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Telling me i cant make (dev) an OS with a browser  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
No, comunism is forcing a single choice on everybody. We want democracy  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
wrong .. thats not democracy...  pcguy777 | 12/13/07
Where does this come from?  jsargent | 12/13/07
Poor Opera  Richard B | 12/13/07
Still, if bundling is not an advantage, and it causes legal problems, why  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
It call the free market  Richard B | 12/13/07
Still, with a monopoly product, tying another product to the monopoly  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
wrong  bmerc | 12/14/07
I hear the BS train rollin through  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
I hear the BS train rollin through  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
ZDNET, WHY ARE YOU CONSTANTLY STRIPPING THE FORMATTING FROM MY POSTS?!?!  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Uh no  Shelendrea | 12/13/07
I don't think so  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Do you use a word processor?  Ole Man | 12/14/07
square brackets instead of angle brackets?  Jack-Booted EULA | 12/13/07
Not a fan of microsoft,  johnmanly2003@... | 12/13/07
But still, if, as you say, IE is so superior, MS has no need to FORCE users  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
I can see your point BUT  Shelendrea | 12/13/07
Yes, and another reason  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Still, it is causing legal problems for MS, and they claim that bundling  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Wait  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Really?  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Wow! What a sorry state of affairs OSS must be in when...  ye | 12/13/07
Pathetic  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
First, Opera is NOT open source. It is proprietary. Second, why does MS  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
My mistake. Didn't know that. As for forcing I don't see anyone...  ye | 12/13/07
The point is, in the enterprise, the do not want to update, patch, test,  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
This is limited to IE?  ye | 12/13/07
The browser is not an OS feature, it is an application. And, all other  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Your opinion. In the end it doesn't matter.  ye | 12/13/07
My dear, it does matter.  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
There are security issues with other OS integrated functionality which...  ye | 12/13/07
Calling any application you want to bundle part of the OS is not a very  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Hey Donnie,  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Except that  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
No "except that". Do like it? Use something else.  ye | 12/13/07
Ye, Reply to the points  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Your point is irrelevant as long as there are alternatives.  ye | 12/13/07
Skirting the issue again, eh?  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
So - What's New?  pauliw25 | 12/13/07
Good point, except that  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Please remove Safari from Mac and Konquerror from Linux  qmlscycrajg | 12/13/07
Multiple Linux distributions do NOT have Konquerer. Safari CAN be  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Checked out Ubuntu  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
I have never installed a Linux system with Konqueror.  bmerc | 12/14/07
Just because it didn't slap you in the face  Ole Man | 12/14/07
So when can I sue Apple to get IE on my MAC OSX  astefl@... | 12/13/07
Actually, MS is well within their legal rights to make a version of IE for  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
I'd LOVE to see this succeed...  handydan918@... | 12/13/07
Yep  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
They can't do it.  Dr. John | 12/13/07
Firefox may come to Microsoft's aid on this!  ShadeTree | 12/13/07
You have not understood the complaint  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
I understood completely!  ShadeTree | 12/13/07
Well that certainly did not work out for WMP  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
I wish people would take  samoanbiscuit@... | 12/13/07
What?  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
All MS has to do is level the playing field for browsers, and this will  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
ACID2 image error  kftgr | 12/13/07
What the.....  Shelendrea | 12/13/07
But, if IE is so good, and bundling gives no advantage, only legal problems  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
And you know the answer to that  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
Did I say IE was so good?  Shelendrea | 12/13/07
A little antitrust primer. It is illegal to tie another product to a  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
If they untie it from the OS  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Microsoft's tie-in with manufacturers leaves little choice  james.faction | 12/13/07
Opera Acid2 Test  james.faction | 12/13/07
Do they think people are that dumb not to be able to think for themselves?  lenohere | 12/13/07
To an extent, yes  nilotpal_c | 12/13/07
I'm sorry but...  lenohere | 12/13/07
Hello, you are wrong  nilotpal_c | 12/14/07
It's their product  ilovebacon | 12/13/07
Just one little problem: antitrust law. You can not tie a product to the  DonnieBoy | 12/13/07
Understandable  ilovebacon | 12/13/07
Yeah? What about apple?  chetblong@... | 12/13/07
IE's not bundled, it's a part of the OS  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Wrong!  chetblong@... | 12/14/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  jgresch@... | 12/13/07
lofl  Jack-Booted EULA | 12/13/07
They have a point  notsofast | 12/13/07
Why doesn't Opera sue Apple as well  Robert_Troyer | 12/13/07
It's because Apple's apps can be removed  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
So can IE.  chetblong@... | 12/14/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  motorhead1979@... | 12/13/07
But there are people who do want change  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 12/13/07
Why does IE abd Firefox ignore standards?  Randalllind | 12/13/07
Alternative? Not the crux here.  cardinal4 | 12/13/07
why sue microsoft  sexually arroused by pc internal bits | 12/14/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  Tok-Sic | 12/14/07
since 99% of OEM builds don't offer an alternative, Opera has a legitimate  wessonjoe | 12/14/07
I have to disagree  Randalllind | 12/14/07
ActiveX  JDThompson | 12/14/07
IE unbundling would fix other problems  tony@... | 12/15/07
Keeping to STANDARDS . .  hkommedal | 12/15/07
Without standards no fair competition  kouzen | 12/16/07
Get over it  John Musbach | 12/16/07
Talk about LOSERS  qquidd@... | 12/16/07
whatever  Khyron | 12/17/07
how is that bad  Khyron | 12/17/07
the concept of a market economy  macrophage | 12/26/07
the market economy concept  james.faction | 01/08/08
Dirty Tricks  Ole Man | 12/17/07
RE: Opera sues Microsoft in the EU over IE, Windows bundle  nanotm | 12/16/09

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