On TV.com: TOP 10 Shows CANCELED Too Soon
BNET Business Network:
BNET
TechRepublic
ZDNet

July 3rd, 2008

YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose

Posted by Larry Dignan @ 3:59 am

Categories: General, Google, Web Technology, YouTube

Tags: Google Inc., YouTube Inc., IP, Video, Viacom Inc., Corporate Communications, Marketing, Larry Dignan

Updated: The latest battle in Google’s ongoing court battle with Viacom over YouTube copyright infringement is a glass half full or half empty situation. In the half full department, Google scored a legal victory as a judge shot down Viacom requests for the search giant’s search code and other critical intellectual property. In the half empty department, Google is being forced to turn over YouTube user histories to Viacom.

While much of today’s debate (Techmeme) about this ruling will focus on user histories, the ruling needs to be viewed with a broader lens.

viacom.pngFrom a business perspective Google comes out ahead–its intellectual property won’t be floated around a courtroom. It’s fascinating how Viacom was asking for everything from source code to ad and video schemas–in other words most of the IP behind Google’s business. Reading the ruling shows what a fishing expedition–or witch-hunt for users–this lawsuit has become. Even with confidentiality, it’s clear Viacom could have used this suit to glean some competitive edge. On the flip side, users clearly lose, but at least Viacom isn’t sorting through your private videos.

Update: Caroline McCarthy is reporting that the court is forcing Viacom to respect user data.  Google has also issued a statement on the matter about privacy rights.

Here’s the scorecard from Tuesday’s ruling by Louis Stanton (PDF), a judge in the U.S. District Court Southern District of New York:

Viacom was seeking Google’s search code to see how the company encourages copyright infringement on YouTube.

Specifically:

Plaintiffs move jointly pursuant compel YouTube and Google to produce certain electronically stored information and documents, including a critical trade secret: the computer source code which controls both the YouTube.com search function and Google’s internet search tool “Google.com”. YouTube and Google cross-move for a protective order barring disclosure of that search code, which they contend is responsible for Google’s growth “from its founding in 1998 to a multi-national presence with more than 16,000 employees and a market valuation of roughly $150 billion”, and cannot be disclosed without risking the loss of the business.

The judge agreed that the search code “is of enormous commercial value” and could cause harm to Google even with a confidentiality agreement. Viacom argued that the only way to check if Google’s claim that its code couldn’t determine between infringement and non-infringement was to check out the code. The judge denied Viacom’s request.

Viacom also wanted Google to produce another trade secret, the source code for its video ID program. Specifically:

Plaintiffs also move to compel production of another undisputed trade secret, the computer source code for the newly invented “Video ID” program. Using that program, copyright owners may furnish YouTube with video reference samples, which YouTube will use to search for and locate video clips in its library which have characteristics sufficiently matching those of the samples as to suggest infringement. That program’s source code is the product of “approximately 50,000 man hours of engineering time and millions of dollars of research and development costs”, and maintaining its confidentiality is essential to prevent others from creating competing programs without any equivalent investment, and to bar users who wish to post infringing content onto YouTube.com from learning ways to trick the Video ID program and thus “escape detection.”

Viacom wanted the code to demonstrate what Google could be doing, but wasn’t to control infringement. The judge told Viacom that they could observe Video ID’s operation and glean the information it wanted. The request was denied.

Viacom wanted Google to turn over all removed videos from YouTube.

Specifically, Viacom argued that “direct access to the removed videos is essential to
identify which (if any) infringe their alleged copyrights.” Google said Viacom should have to specify the videos it wants. The judge sided with Viacom. Google has to hand over all of the removed videos, a total in the millions.

Viacom wanted video related data from YouTube’s logging database.
That’s a toned down way to say that Viacom wanted login IDs, the time a user watched it, the IP address and the video identifier. Specifically:

Plaintiffs seek all data from the Logging database concerning each time a YouTube video has been viewed on the YouTube website or through embedding on a third-party website. They need the data to compare the attractiveness of allegedly infringing videos with that of non-infringing videos. A markedly higher proportion of infringing-video watching may bear on plaintiffs’ vicarious liability claim, and defendants’ substantial non-infringing use defense. Defendants argue generally that plaintiffs’ request is unduly burdensome because producing the enormous amount of information in the Logging database (about 12 terabytes of data) “would be expensive and time-consuming, particularly in light of the need to examine the contents for privileged and work product material.”

And.

Defendants argue that the data should not be disclosed because of the users’ privacy concerns, saying that “Plaintiffs would likely be able to determine the viewing and video uploading habits of YouTube’s users based on the user’s login ID and the user’s IP address”. But defendants cite no authority barring them from disclosing such information in civil discovery proceedings, and their privacy concerns are speculative.

The judge ruled for Viacom and Google has to produce the user histories.

Viacom wanted the databases that have information about each video available in the YouTube collection–title, keywords, comments and whether it has been flagged as inappropriate among other items.

Specifically, Viacom wanted the info to show “that defendants have an ability to control infringements. Plaintiffs contend that only direct access to the electronic data would give them “the ability to quickly search, sort and analyze millions of pieces of information.”

Google argued that Viacom’s request was too broad. The judge denied Viacom’s request.

Viacom wanted Google’s advertising and video content schemas–the index that shows how data in a database is organized.

Google obviously argued that the advertising schemas are confidential. Viacom argued that the schema is relevant to show what Google “could have or should have known about the extent to which their advertising revenues were associated with infringing content, and the extent to which Defendants had the ability to control, block or prevent advertising from being associated with infringing videos.”

On the video database schema, Viacom has a similar argument. Viacom wanted to know whether Google was really trying to control infringement. Google said that schema is too critical to its business.

The judge ruled for Google on both schemas.

Viacom wanted data on all private videos from YouTube users. A private video is one where only a person authorized by a user can view it.

Google argued that Viacom’s request is a privacy violation under the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. Viacom argued that it needed to view these private videos to gauge copyright violations.

The judge ruled for Google.

Final score: While Google has to hand over user histories the outcome of this ruling could have been a lot worse. For instance, Viacom could have sorted through millions of private videos–say a childbirth or 2 year old birthday party video for family–in a quest for some Rugrats copyright violation. Google could have handed over most of its advertising IP to Viacom, which would have likely benefited because it depends on advertising too.

Also see:

Larry DignanLarry Dignan is Editor in Chief of ZDNet and Editorial Director of ZDNet sister site TechRepublic. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

For daily updates, follow Larry on Twitter.

Email Larry Dignan

Subscribe to Between the Lines via Email alerts or RSS.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 104 Talkback(s)
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose
Convert MOD files is designed for mod converting.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: gwreg4fge Posted on: 10/27/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Competition?  forrestcupp | 07/03/08
You have to start somewhere  GuidingLight | 07/03/08
Tip of the iceberg ...  mwagner@... | 07/03/08
Its the Riaa/Mpaa Mentality..  supercharlie | 07/03/08
One day?!?!?  dkawalec | 07/03/08
I was refering to YouTube only  GuidingLight | 07/03/08
Partially true - Simple analogy here  micks_tricks | 07/03/08
Boycott Viacom?? Yeah.... right!  shawkins | 07/03/08
I agree with you.  GuidingLight | 07/03/08
Pandora's box is already open....  ZD-PIRATE | 07/03/08
Well, we are in a socialist democracy...  tikigawd | 07/03/08
No, it's a Capitalist Dictatorship..  SWtester | 07/03/08
No, it's more like a Capitalist Dictatorship  SWtester | 07/03/08
Typical American response - label a corporate dictatorship socialist??  raycote | 07/04/08
Veoh  canaryfish | 07/06/08
Misleading title  ridingthewind | 07/03/08
Google's IP Should Be Protected But Viacom's IP Shouldn't?  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
profits versus world community  kouzen | 07/03/08
Ridiculous and subjective  mlambert890@... | 07/03/08
Demonizing Google  KeJorn | 07/03/08
And further...  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
You are joking right?  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
My GOD what a stupid argument  bmerc | 07/03/08
Hey Smarty Pants Get Your Copyright Law Straight  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Seems like MeepsDeeps is paid by Viacom - & BTW Boycott Viacom  micks_tricks | 07/03/08
Micks, Here's The Math: IP + Copyright = How This Economy Works  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
More  bmerc | 07/03/08
fair use is worth protecting, we disagree about whether this is fair use  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Meepsdeeps, you're a shill  bmerc | 07/03/08
When Did My "Fair Use" Get Advertising?  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Okay, I apologize for my hostile tone.  bmerc | 07/03/08
Its like graffiti on a building  T1Oracle | 07/04/08
IP = BILLION$  west1234 | 07/03/08
Not a good argument  mlambert890@... | 07/03/08
USAPATRIOT, you misunderstand my point  bmerc | 07/03/08
Pointless post...  mlambert890@... | 07/03/08
I never said anything remotely like that. Stop lying.  bmerc | 07/03/08
Who's after Viacom's IP?  Etch44 | 07/03/08
huh? Copywrited material IS IP - look up the definition  mlambert890@... | 07/03/08
Intellectual Property is a meaningless term  bmerc | 07/03/08
Bmerc Just Google "IP" So We Can Move On To The Next Issue  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Let me explain it with an analogy  bmerc | 07/03/08
nice post bmerc  InsaneWayne | 07/03/08
Nope  DonRupertBitByte | 07/03/08
Spelling: COPYRIGHT not copywrite.  west1234 | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  jskline0@... | 07/03/08
Hmm, the "G" word  markdean | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  frabjous | 07/03/08
Interesting concept  bob@... | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  79spitfire | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  doug.hanchard@...ZDNet Moderator | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  Life_N_Cancun | 07/03/08
If IP Is Not Protected We Have No Internet as We Know It and No Economy...  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Ahh, you're an attorney with a vested interest in spreading disinformation!  bmerc | 07/03/08
I'm No Shill. Why Not Stick To The Real Isues Here?  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
last response  bmerc | 07/03/08
Seems like MeepsDeeps is paid by Viacom  micks_tricks | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  tiphys | 07/03/08
Why log in?  leeegeee | 07/03/08
Well..  ZachE84 | 07/16/08
The World Loses  kouzen | 07/03/08
the World WINS  pixelm1 | 07/03/08
Oh Please  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
I told you before, and I'm telling you again  bmerc | 07/03/08
I Say Again - Please Tell Me...  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Viacom has no sympathy from me  bmerc | 07/03/08
Bmerc, nice post  puffaroo | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  wa1den_b@... | 07/03/08
Youtube Sucks Since It Was Sold  itanalyst2@... | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  m913 | 07/03/08
No Wonder Google News Featured This Blog: It's A Google Brown Noser  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Don't You Know To Crosscheck Any Story Here?  itanalyst2@... | 07/03/08
Exactly  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Then why are you here?  James T. Kirk | 07/03/08
He's here to protect his client's interests.  bmerc | 07/03/08
Give me one example...  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Because Before I Came No One Was Talking About The Other Side of The Coin  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  mwagner@... | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  Long Thom | 07/03/08
That's pretty much it  markdean | 07/03/08
And yet...  bmerc | 07/03/08
Agreed, that case was a silly application of the law  markdean | 07/05/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  tBuggR | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  henrydennis@... | 07/03/08
F U Viacom  Trauma_Hound | 07/03/08
Viacom's Foolish Loss of Free Advertising  g-man_863 | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  highlandstoday@... | 07/03/08
Buy their way out  flhu | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  JoeRJr | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  EBathory | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  gpaine | 07/03/08
Because Before I Came No One Was Talking About The Other Side of The Coin  MeepsDeeps | 07/03/08
Easy to fix: Turn off the TV...  Narg | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  FJDP | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  golstat2003 | 07/03/08
Don't blindly accept privacy policies...  AckItsMe2 | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  gabrielbear@... | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  benblush@... | 07/03/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  bob@... | 07/03/08
Why Im boycotting Viacom  InsaneWayne | 07/03/08
Abuse of Discovery is a standard legal ploy...  terry flores | 07/04/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  RichieRich50 | 07/07/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  grayfrier | 08/16/08
RE: YouTube vs. Viacom: Google's IP wins; Users lose  gwreg4fge | 10/27/09

What do you think?

SponsoredWhite Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

advertisement

Recent Entries

Archives

Favorite Links

ZDNet Blogs

White Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads