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August 15th, 2007

Tech Shakedown #5: Microsoft justifies Vista's forcing of unwanted reboots

Posted by David Berlind @ 9:22 am

Categories: General, IT Management, Personal Technology, Security, Software Infrastructure, Technology Shakedown, Video, Vista

Tags: System, Microsoft Windows Vista, Microsoft Windows, Reboot, Microsoft Corp., User, David Berlind

Two weeks ago, I posted a ZDNet Technology Shakedown video showing how, after downloading and installing some updates, Windows Vista initiated a forced reboot of itself without allowing me the option to postpone that reboot. The options were there. But they were inaccessible. I was critical of the experience because the odds are pretty good that a user of Windows Vista could be in the middle of doing something important with their PC that can’t be delayed because of a forced reboot. For example, they could be participating in a realtime online conference of some sort (eg: with something like WebEx). Or what if the user was under the gun to get something done by a certain deadline? I can’t possibly count with two hands how many times I’ve had something that takes 30 minutes to do, but only 15 minutes to do it. In situations like that, I’d most certainly blow a gasket if my operating system forced a reboot of itself.

Anyway, that video caused quite a stir and judging by the responses both in the comments area and in my e-mail, a lot of people asked for the gory details, many in hopes of proving that it was my fault rather than a design flaw in Windows Vista. At the very least, since many ZDNet readers weren’t seeing the same behavior in their Vista-based systems, it merited further testing and investigation with Microsoft. As you can see in the video attached to this blog, I reproduced the testing conditions and was able to determine the single gating factor that controlled whether or not the option to delay a forced reboot is available to an end-user of Vista. Furthermore, I was able to confirm the behavior with Microsoft who sees this not as a bug, but as a feature of Vista. In other words, Vista behaves this way by design: a decision I find troubling given the sort of interruption it can lead to.

So what in my configuration of Windows Vista was the culprit? It’s the fact that I was logged into Vista as a standard user instead of an administrative user. According to Microsoft, if the administrator of a system (even a stand alone system that’s not joined to some organizational domain) has set Windows Update to automatically download and install updates (as I have) and a reboot is required for those installations to complete themselves (not always the case), that reboot will be a forced one with no opportunity to postpone if you’re logged into Windows Vista as a standard user.

A lot has been written about the differences between administrative and standard users in Windows Vista. As can be seen from the partial screenshot below, Vista’s user interface strongly recommends that users of Vista be standard, and not administrative users (continued below).

vistastandarduser.JPG

When logged into Windows Vista as a standard user, the likelihood that the user or any malware that inherits the rights of that user can do serious damage to the operating system is greatly reduced, if not completely eliminated. When logged-in as a standard user, doing anything that requires system-level access also requires the entry of administrative credentials. Even if you’re logged in as an administrative user, Vista will prompt you to bless any operation (ie: modifying a user account, installing/uninstalling software, etc.) that could potentially affect sensitive areas of the system.

In trying to keep my systems as secure as possible, I try to heed Microsoft’s advice. I’ve set my systems (XP and Vista) to automatically update themselves and, in the case of Vista, I’ve been running my systems as a standard user (and have recommended the same to ZDNet’s readers). But, as Microsoft explained to me, in so doing, I’ve subject myself to the forced reboot phenomenon.

In a dialog involving several back-n-forth e-mails, a Microsoft spokesperson responded to my original inquiry as follows:

What happened [in my case] was that [Vista's] Automatic Update (AU) had downloaded updates and was ready to install them at the scheduled 3am time [the time I have Windows Update scheduled to run]. [You] shutdown the system without installing the updates. Upon turning the machine on, AU realized that the scheduled install was missed and so the install was initiated (immediately starting the install vs. waiting for the next schedule time is controllable by policy). Starting the installation as soon as possible is the safest and most secure default. The install of the update required a reboot in order to complete the installation and secure the machine. Because an administrative user had configured the machine to automatically stay up to date, the reboot is not postpone-able by a non-admin. Allowing a non-admin to override an admin’s wish is not the right default for security sake. This behavior is also controllable by policy to allow a non-admin user to interact with Windows Update.

So yes, what [you] experienced is by design and justifiable as it does not allow a non-admin to go against the wishes of the administrative user. And again if running as a non-admin is his normal mode of operation, then there are policies which can be set to tweak behaviors more to his liking.

I was a bit confused by this response, mostly because my machine wasn’t joined to an organizational domain through which central policies regarding standard user access to administrative functions are normally implemented. The note is written as though Vista provides some policy-setting feature that can grant standard users whatever administrative access they need to change the settings of Windows Update. I couldn’t find an easy way to do this. Via a subsequent round of e-mails, that spokesperson explained:

Local policy can also be configured for non-domain joined machines. This is done through gpedit.msc. this will only exist on [Vista's] business [versions] and Ultimate. setting the regkeys directly is described in the WSUS deployment guide.

I could opine for several more pages regarding the restriction of this facility to the Business and Ultimate versions of Vista or the fact that making these policy adjustments is far easier said than done (editing the registry is not for the faint at heart). But, in these case, it’s better to see the forest from the trees. I can see where, if an IT manager at some organization says “thou shalt update your systems according to our rules and not yours,” the affected systems and their users may, for corporate security reasons, be subject to forced reboots. I’m not sure if such a policy would make a lot of friends in userland. But business IT departments can and do set such company wide policies.

But in the case of individual users on their systems that are not joined to some domain or subject to some organizational update edict, a forced reboot without the option to postpone seems rather harsh. When configuring Windows Update, either when Vista is “burned-in” for the first time during the out of box experience or later (through the Tools menu in Internet Explorer), the user interface does not adequately communicate that automatic updates means “forced reboot” as well for standard users. Since many users of Vista will have earned their Windows chops on Windows XP, their expectation (since most ran XP as administrators…. running XP in standard user mode was pretty much impossible) will be that they’ll have the opportunity to delay such reboots and that offering that option to postpone updates is simply part of the rubrick of updating Windows (as it appeared to be in XP).

At the very least, as stated in the video above, the option to postpone an update installation should be available to standard users who are prepared to supply administrative credentials as a part of the same escalation process that takes place when standard users attempt other tasks that require administrative access.

David Berlind has been Executive Editor at ZDNet since 1998 and has been a technology journalist since 1991. Although he can't respond to all e-mails, he reads them all. You can reach David at david.berlind AT cnet.com. If you don't want the content of your e-mail to turn up in a blog entry, make sure you say so. To the extent that most e-mail he receives looks to sway his opinion about something, he usually looks to pass those points of view onto ZDNet's audience members for their consideration . For disclosures on David's industry affiliations, click here.
  • Talkback
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Constantly Agonising over Microsoft
I think all you seem to do is bag out Microsoft, its always there no matter how suttle or how how hard you try and disguise it as being something else. Get over it and turn off automatic updates if yo... (Read the rest)
Posted by: saleh_el_boustani@... Posted on: 09/11/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Remember David...  Linux User 147560 | 08/15/07
Please explain  NonZealot | 08/15/07
Feels like I am talkin' to  Linux User 147560 | 08/15/07
talking to talking to?  evilkillerwhale@... | 08/16/07
No one is trying to make you use anything  tracy anne | 08/17/07
It's not even a flaw, though...  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
You are so wrong on so many counts I don't know where to begin.  ye | 08/17/07
I run Mandriva and Windows  tracy anne | 08/17/07
No, Linux doesn't require a reboot.  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
You do hold a high regard for simpletons  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
su -  sysop-dr | 08/16/07
How can EULA possibly have nothing to do?  Ole Man | 08/16/07
well  Badgered | 08/16/07
What part of?  Ole Man | 08/16/07
missing the whole rigths issues  technokid_bes | 08/16/07
Where is all the links?  Ole Man | 08/17/07
You can't comprehend what you read...  evilkillerwhale@... | 08/16/07
Total agreement  ShevaBeba | 08/16/07
"make your standard into a admin"  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
I know a lot of young punks  Ole Man | 08/17/07
Except as "PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW"  Dr. John | 08/17/07
Deciphering legalese  Ole Man | 08/17/07
Here's a towel, dry your eyes and I'll send flowers  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Congratulations.  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
Oh but it IS his computer when running Windows.  ye | 08/15/07
The problem  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
No, this is NOT THE DEFAULT. How many times must it be repeated?  ye | 08/16/07
Yes I read the blog  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
There is no problem. Just ABMers blowing nothing...  ye | 08/16/07
I believe you, take a valium, relax and be happy  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
loss of critical data?  evilkillerwhale@... | 08/16/07
Sure, blame the user.  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
How many home users are  pennatomcat | 08/16/07
Why would they do that?  ye | 08/16/07
WHY?  lisacate@... | 08/16/07
Configuring  Freebird54 | 08/19/07
Is this news to anyone?  Richard Flude | 08/15/07
I agree with Microsofts decision.  ye | 08/15/07
It IS flawed.  sdc100 | 08/16/07
# reboot Still waiting for my answer.  ye | 08/16/07
" in order to bash Windows"?  Ole Man | 08/16/07
Vista - Just Say  Cardhu | 08/16/07
What are you talking about?  timpin1@... | 08/17/07
You're Overlooking Something  Cardhu | 08/18/07
No one is answering your question  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
you machine, your settings  mswift@... | 08/16/07
They should not be default  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
default behavior  mswift@... | 08/16/07
your mchine, your setting  sdc100 | 08/17/07
I've never seen so many clueless people  ye | 08/17/07
ye: "Hello Mr. Kettle. My, you're looking black today."  nighthawk808 | 08/18/07
That makes everything hunky-dory!  Ole Man | 08/16/07
Any more sheep out there looking for MS grass ?  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
You would agree to anything MS tells you  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Remember David ...  CodeBubba | 08/16/07
Ok...  evilkillerwhale@... | 08/16/07
So you made a policy decision and fault Vista for enforcing it?  ye | 08/15/07
If he used the recommended default setting  Michael Kelly | 08/15/07
I disagree on both counts.  dberlind | 08/15/07
Fine. Now you know so change it to something...  ye | 08/15/07
Not quite - not all versions of Vista have gpedit.msc  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
Where did I mentioned gpedit.msc?  ye | 08/15/07
And once again, someone DID NOT READ THE PAPER  bmerc | 08/15/07
Perhaps you'd care to explain instead of having me...  ye | 08/15/07
The article mentions M$ response  NickNielsen | 08/16/07
Don't need gpedit  rapson | 08/15/07
Agreed  bmgoodman | 08/15/07
You're blaming Vista for your mistake?  ye | 08/15/07
Read to learn  bmgoodman | 08/15/07
What does that have to do with reading?  ye | 08/15/07
We're blaming Vista  Michael Kelly | 08/15/07
Majority of users don't know enough or care  ye | 08/15/07
Why not put a warning?  voska | 08/15/07
Already been explained in the article.  ye | 08/15/07
But Michael,  Update victim | 08/16/07
Yes we are all to blame, Vista is blameless  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Does Vista automatically install the updates, or ...  P. Douglas | 08/15/07
It offers several options of which...  ye | 08/15/07
If the PCs personal, then why not be admin?  laura.b | 08/15/07
Bad idea  bmgoodman | 08/16/07
They didn't try in XP. They started in NT 3.1  ye | 08/16/07
Get it right..  Wolfie2K3 | 08/16/07
I agree, in theory  laura.b | 08/16/07
OK..Let's look at this with a reality check in place..  Wolfie2K3 | 08/16/07
It does this at 3am by default...  lisacate@... | 08/16/07
Had to turn auto update off...  Dr. John | 08/17/07
The default is...  ye | 08/15/07
That says nothing about reboots  Michael Kelly | 08/15/07
So does OS X. Yet...  ye | 08/15/07
MAC tells you before you download & give choices  j.m.galvin | 08/15/07
Vista gives you choices too!  ye | 08/15/07
Ye, why you're wrong on this  sjaaxken | 08/15/07
Excellent! Most excellent post sjaaxken!  Linux User 147560 | 08/15/07
BUT THE DEFAULT IS...  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 08/15/07
# reboot  ye | 08/15/07
Ye, why you're wrong on this  aussieblnd@... | 08/16/07
How am I wrong?  ye | 08/16/07
"I don't see anyone whining about OS X"  brian ansorge | 08/16/07
People deplore it merely because it's Microsoft  ye | 08/16/07
Maybe because the article wasn't about OS X Reboots?  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
OSX DOES NOT FORCE REBOOTS  Resuna | 08/16/07
But you are stuck with a MAC  Baer | 08/16/07
# reboot  ye | 08/16/07
That's funny  Linux User 147560 | 08/15/07
That's funny  aussieblnd@... | 08/16/07
What's really funny...  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
You think very differently!  ZMarjan | 08/16/07
Typical ABMer response. Anyone who defends MS must be...  ye | 08/16/07
Actually your dogmatism  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
When I'm right, I'm right. I won't back down.  ye | 08/16/07
Reeeeely impressed!  Ole Man | 08/16/07
The user shutdown his computer  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Better yet...  Linux User 147560 | 08/15/07
When did this change?  fde101 | 08/16/07
Last I checked  tracy anne | 08/17/07
Better yet...  SO.CAL Guy | 08/16/07
My Linux doesn't have a "program manager"  Ole Man | 08/16/07
Gosh & Golly Gee  Bill4 | 08/15/07
Ad hominem noted.  ye | 08/15/07
Problem is, nobody mde the policy  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
He did...  ye | 08/15/07
I disagree with "reasonable defaults" (nt)  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
The default is reasonable. He changed the default.  ye | 08/16/07
the default is not reasonable (nt)  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
Sure it is. It allows EXACTLY what everyone wants  ye | 08/17/07
Some common sense?  TucsonGuy | 08/16/07
Then CHANGE it! Why is this so hard for everyone?  ye | 08/16/07
Problem is, nobody made the policy  aussieblnd@... | 08/16/07
re: "Problem is, nobody made the policy"  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
Learn to read  bmerc | 08/15/07
Ad hominem noted.  ye | 08/15/07
ironic  bmerc | 08/16/07
Calling them like I see them.  ye | 08/16/07
Thanks, that sums it up succinctly.  SpaceCowboyNJ | 08/15/07
Silly Microsoft Rabbit...  jskline0@... | 08/16/07
Local systems have a security policy too.  ye | 08/16/07
It was his decision  RocketEater | 08/16/07
Wrong  Update victim | 08/16/07
Stop talking about the default. This WASN'T the default.  ye | 08/16/07
System Administrator why?  ramien@... | 08/17/07
Most have no idea as to what, why or how  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
'Sour Grapes' because somebody beat him to it  lisacate@... | 08/16/07
How about at least a clear warning  Michael Kelly | 08/15/07
Or, how about...  dberlind | 08/15/07
Okay  Jeremy W | 08/16/07
Clippy?  notsofast | 08/16/07
Clippy was helpful for beginners...  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
This guy has the right idea  Brakiss | 08/16/07
Bitten once again  frgough | 08/15/07
Please explain  NonZealot | 08/15/07
I'm curious to hear that Explaination too (NT)  voska | 08/15/07
Same here, not making a connection (NT)  Stuka | 08/15/07
Please explain  aussieblnd@... | 08/16/07
aussieblnd you can all that has to be done is a simple change to  SO.CAL Guy | 08/16/07
Someone will be glad to help you out  Ole Man | 08/16/07
# reboot  ye | 08/15/07
Still waiting for my answer.  ye | 08/16/07
No your argument  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Perfectly relevant. ABMers say the system should allow...  ye | 08/16/07
Because...  TucsonGuy | 08/16/07
And this difference matters why?  ye | 08/16/07
Where is your "reboot" key?  Ole Man | 08/16/07
Ditto. Explain, please. NT  laura.b | 08/15/07
He is mistaken  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
A forced reboot is NEVER acceptable  Protector | 08/15/07
Newsflash: New version of Windows...  ye | 08/15/07
Except when shutting down the machine...  mdsmedia | 08/15/07
The default is 3AM. That's 3AM. Let me repeat: 3AM!  ye | 08/15/07
I used to work the night shift (nt)  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
Doesn't change what I said.  ye | 08/15/07
I prefer they take it out altogether. it's useless (nt)  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
Then DISABLE it. Choice is yours.  ye | 08/15/07
How many people leave their PC on all night? (NT)  High Sierra | 08/16/07
Maching was off at 3AM  cassb | 08/16/07
Then how did the patches get downloaded?  ye | 08/16/07
A stupid decision is still stupid  NickNielsen | 08/16/07
I think it's a wise decision.  ye | 08/16/07
You would.  nighthawk808 | 08/20/07
Raging ravaging robots rapidly running wild worldwide  Ole Man | 08/16/07
3am, however, is a convenient time..  msalzberg | 08/15/07
Then CHANGE the default setting.  ye | 08/15/07
Chill out  voska | 08/15/07
The default DOES WARN YOU!  ye | 08/15/07
Do I sense a little bit of Psychological Projection?  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 08/15/07
Ad hominem noted. No counter argument noted.  ye | 08/15/07
Did you learn a new phrase today?  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 08/16/07
Stop making them and you'll see me stop noting them.  ye | 08/16/07
Unix is off topic  voska | 08/16/07
You'd have a point if the issue in question was the DEFAULT.  ye | 08/16/07
In my opinion  tombalablomba | 08/16/07
No noticeable increse in my electric bill...  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
Mainframe users  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Newsflash!  cheesyone | 08/16/07
Agreed.  ye | 08/16/07
NO, that isn't the #1 reason...  lisacate@... | 08/17/07
learning everything 'open source  Ole Man | 08/20/07
What about a user with a locked session?  Brakiss | 08/16/07
If the user is on a network  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Another side of the same coin  d.s.williams | 08/17/07
Bit of a strawman  wolf_z | 08/15/07
Good point  wil2liv | 08/16/07
Workaround  Stoutner | 08/15/07
Stopping ALL scheduled activites  TechnoSarge | 08/15/07
Sone advice . . .  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
You'd be surprised  voska | 08/15/07
Good advice, but the OP is using XP (nt)  rtk | 08/15/07
Sorry, but in this case...  Ben_E | 08/16/07
When reboot is inevitable ...  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/15/07
Simple solution  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/15/07
Adminstrative vs standard  Taz_z | 08/15/07
My solution to that  Michael Kelly | 08/15/07
This is going to sound odd as I have always been...  ye | 08/15/07
what sounds odd is...  bmerc | 08/16/07
Grandmas don't need to know it. It's the DEFAULT!  ye | 08/16/07
For single user, I recommend Admin with UAC.  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
Agreed.  slopoke | 08/15/07
Another simple solution  HooNoze | 08/15/07
Never liked the poicy anyways  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
Then change it and stop whining.  ye | 08/15/07
Can I do that without completely disabling automatic updates? (nt)  CobraA1 | 08/15/07
What do you mean by "completely disabling"?  ye | 08/15/07
Wow...  bmerc | 08/15/07
Yes, I can.  ye | 08/15/07
Give up on him.  pennatomcat | 08/16/07
No it isn't.  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
Then it's not automatic is it?  ye | 08/16/07
yes, it is  CobraA1 | 08/17/07
Not installed until rebooted.  ye | 08/17/07
yes set it to download but let me decide when install can't get much  SO.CAL Guy | 08/16/07
But I don't want to manually install it. I want to AUTOMATICALLY install.  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
Perhaps Microsoft will fix this problem in SP1 - nt  WiredGuy | 08/15/07
Perhaps  zclayton2 | 08/16/07
It is not a problem  Baer | 08/16/07
It is two clicks.  tracy anne | 08/17/07
keep in mind the average user...  hepcat65000@... | 08/15/07
It's not arrogance. Geez! It's a decision they made.  ye | 08/15/07
It's not arrogance. Geez! It's a STUPID decision they made  deaf_e_kate | 08/15/07
subject  deaf_e_kate | 08/15/07
I agree with their decision.  ye | 08/15/07
re: I agree with their decision  deaf_e_kate | 08/16/07
But you can save your work!  ye | 08/16/07
What if they are AFK? (NT)  High Sierra | 08/16/07
...and ONCE AGAIN you ignore the content you're supposedly critiquing  bmerc | 08/16/07
AFK?  ye | 08/16/07
Then CHANGE it!  ye | 08/16/07
AFK = Away From Keyboard n/t  Wolfie2K3 | 08/16/07
AFK. Then it doesn't matter. You're not there to abort the reboot anyway.  ye | 08/16/07
Even with Policy, I don't force reboot when the user is on  fernndzgld@... | 08/15/07
Lesson 1: Be the Admin  SpaceCowboyNJ | 08/15/07
Operating Systems 101  Mitch 74 | 08/16/07
Morons: Read the Documentation  SpaceCowboyNJ | 08/15/07
Are you really a tech journo?! LOL  groovepoint@... | 08/15/07
There are bugs here  gordonf@... | 08/15/07
Set AU to Download but not Install  jpr75_z | 08/16/07
but why does it need to reboot?  stevey_d | 08/16/07
Timeout  Jambalaya Breath | 08/17/07
Hewlett Packard Non Stop Unix.  stevey_d | 08/20/07
Why does Windows need so many updates?  mscsrrr | 08/16/07
Your post is equally applicable ....  ShadeTree | 08/16/07
False assumption?  bal4bill | 08/16/07
Not in the middle?  Keywalker4God | 08/16/07
I think that's the final straw  jducoeur | 08/16/07
misfeature?  Mujibahr | 08/16/07
Choices  pj_mouse | 08/16/07
Problem is  Mujibahr | 08/16/07
based on WHAT misinformation? nt  mdsmedia | 08/16/07
It's a misfeature because...  mdsmedia | 08/16/07
Forced Reboot  CodeBubba | 08/16/07
Actually  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Actually  CodeBubba | 08/17/07
I understand the point, but disagree  bfreed@... | 08/16/07
The point is you don't know it will happen the first time.  Keywalker4God | 08/16/07
In your example, the average user....  mdsmedia | 08/16/07
reboot  paul.h.king@... | 08/16/07
Logical / easily implemented solution  jlang@... | 08/16/07
Why is "standard user" recommended for all users?  Ivystung | 08/16/07
Talking about dumb . . .  CobraA1 | 08/16/07
if in a work critical situation  sail4evr | 08/16/07
Great advice...  bmerc | 08/16/07
MCE  ian.scanlan@... | 08/16/07
Corporate desktops are usually "standard"  davidr69 | 08/16/07
Reboots,IE& https Hijacking  pccow000 | 08/16/07
Administering the computer  aydeisen | 08/16/07
vista reboot--NEVER  varick | 08/16/07
There is a good reason for unwanted reboot  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
Thanks David  jhurst747 | 08/16/07
Microsoft could make a simple fix  gettinoriginal2@... | 08/16/07
He was away from the machine!!  mdsmedia | 08/16/07
I'm not sure I agree...  GrizzledGeezer | 08/16/07
Simple answer...install without reboot....  mdsmedia | 08/16/07
Guess I don't have to worry.  lostinlodos | 08/16/07
That's the way I set it....  erm@... | 08/16/07
Microsoft's moronic justification  sdc100 | 08/16/07
vista forced reboot  tkpol@... | 08/16/07
This isn't that hard.  heres_johnny | 08/16/07
You mean like the default time of 3am?  ye | 08/16/07
you only want  jedi105@... | 08/16/07
The real bug  Keywalker4God | 08/16/07
No Group Policy Editor is dumb  Jim Johnson | 08/16/07
oh yea Linux never needs a reboot after an update wrong  SO.CAL Guy | 08/16/07
Updates in Linux  pj_mouse | 08/16/07
You clearly demonstrate your lack of knowledge  Ole Man | 08/16/07
Happened to me  jedi105@... | 08/16/07
And yes  jedi105@... | 08/16/07
The Only Solution...  Jeremy W | 08/16/07
Tired argument... Not a problem if it can be fixed  themacolyte | 08/16/07
Std users have too much power  frlgrb | 08/16/07
Another poster who doesn't understand what the default is.  ye | 08/16/07
The problem with expectations  fromthehip | 08/16/07
THis is not a problem, it was your choice  Baer | 08/16/07
Excellent question. A point I've been making myself.  ye | 08/16/07
Well, then don't do that....  Heimdall222 | 08/16/07
Bravo, A Smart Person  Baer | 08/16/07
What's "Standard"?  davemulk | 08/16/07
Why even put up with this Vista nonsense?  ejhonda | 08/16/07
Did the same thing myself...  TucsonGuy | 08/16/07
The point is  alaniane@... | 08/16/07
VIRUS  BALTHOR | 08/16/07
Quick Fix  pvhastings | 08/16/07
Here I am ... way down here ...  Media-Ted@... | 08/16/07
Vista took a good idea from Linux but screwed the pooch in execution.  blc1839 | 08/16/07
overblown  daMan25 | 08/16/07
Message has been deleted.  Narg | 08/16/07
Daft  djhs@... | 08/16/07
It's not just Vista, a fully updated XP does it too!  NickNielsen | 08/16/07
XP now does it too  NickNielsen | 08/16/07
Fueling The Fire is All You're Doing  MasterJoe | 08/16/07
In reality....  Wolfie2K3 | 08/16/07
Then how did it download the patches?  ye | 08/16/07
yum -y update; reboot; no option to abort...  ye | 08/16/07
How I love Ubuntu...let me count the ways...  mikifinaz1@... | 08/16/07
yum -y update; reboot  ye | 08/16/07
You know what I realized that this problem really is?  laura.b | 08/16/07
You got dat right.  notsofast | 08/16/07
The average user who cannot use gpedit likely is not going to...  ye | 08/16/07
Vista Just bit me, Again!  bobmatch@... | 08/16/07
Once shame on you, twice shame on me.  ye | 08/16/07
Its not Vista  Moreese | 08/16/07
Just shut up, do as you are told to do...MS  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Why does this surprise anyone?  The_Curmudgeon | 08/16/07
Have another toke, a valium or MS happy ludes  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Well, Does the bridge reboot itself or not?  lisacate@... | 08/16/07
When are you leaving for Redmond ?  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
You consider yourself to be 92 % ?  intrepi@... | 08/16/07
Mine did it last night, no problem postponing the reboot  lisacate@... | 08/16/07
I always use Vista, XP, 2000 as an administrator  chas_2 | 08/16/07
Lock and key  Chiatzu | 08/17/07
Quality Assurance??  vancegilbert@... | 08/17/07
System Administrator why?  ramien@... | 08/17/07
Sorry  joe6pack_z | 08/17/07
What are you talking about?  timpin1@... | 08/17/07
Sorry, replied to story when I meant to reply to message  timpin1@... | 08/17/07
seriously??  inertman@... | 08/18/07
Forced reboots come back to haunt even after auto-updates are switched off  zd_surfer | 08/18/07
Failed updates and forced reboots  SoberDub | 08/18/07
I hate to side with Microsoft, but....  mrdood_99205@... | 08/18/07
"Changes will not take effect until you reboot"  Ole Man | 08/18/07
Reinforces Admin = User  wingsteed@... | 08/18/07
Secutiry?  ramien@... | 08/18/07
Oh crap! Must be a hardware problem!  Rick_R | 08/18/07
Don't forget dialup users!  grail@... | 08/19/07
Too True  carlino | 08/20/07
totally agree...  slainers2001@... | 08/24/07
Typical Microsoft  johndifo | 08/27/07
Constantly Agonising over Microsoft  saleh_el_boustani@... | 09/11/07

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