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August 5th, 2009

A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no

Posted by Ed Bott @ 1:20 pm

Categories: Windows 7

Tags: Disk, Bug, Memory Usage, Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Windows 7, Operating Systems, Software, Ed Bott

The blogosphere is abuzz over a newly publicized bug in Windows 7. I read about it yesterday on Chris123NT’s blog, where it was described as a “critical bug in Windows 7 RTM.” The story picked up momentum today when InfoWorld’s Randall Kennedy (the man behind the “Save XP” Astroturf campaign) published a sensational polemic: “Critical Windows 7 bug risks derailing product launch.” Tom Warren at Neowin called it “rather nasty” but sensibly concluded that it’s far from a “show stopper.”

My conclusion? It’s alarming behavior if you’re unaware of what’s happening. But when you look more carefully, it’s arguably a feature, not a bug, and the likelihood that you’ll ever crash a system this way is very, very small and completely avoidable.

You can go read Chris’s initial report to see the repro steps. Basically, you need to run the Windows Chkdsk command using the /r switch, which is designed to locate and repair bad sectors on a disk. According to the initial report, if you use this tool as described, “you should see your memory quickly gobbled away in the chkdsk.exe process until it either stops at or around 90% or it maxes completely out and crashes the computer.”

Let’s all take a deep breath, shall we? I’ve done a couple hours worth of testing this morning on the subject. There’s much less here than meets the eye. The idea that this bug is reproducible 100% of the time is incorrect, and in fact some of the seemingly alarming behavior is actually by design.

First, you won’t see this bug on your system drive. Why? Because if you try to run Chkdsk with this switch (either from the command line or from the graphical interface) you’ll be told that the drive is in use. Windows will politely offer to schedule the disk check to run the next time you reboot and before Windows loads. The disk check in this mode is quick and harmless.

Most systems have a single drive, with a single partition. On such a system, you will never see this issue.
Second, if you try to run disk check on a non-system drive that is in use (one where you have recently worked with data files for example), you’ll be offered the opportunity to dismount the drive and continue the check. If you refuse, Windows politely offers to reschedule the check to run at startup, just as in the previous case.

Third, I’ve heard at least one observer speculate that this might affect you if you insert a removable drive and Windows prompts you to “scan and fix it.”

I tried doing exactly that, inserting several USB flash drives until I found one 4GB model that triggered this prompt. It produced the following dialog box:

Note that the second option, to “Scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors” is the equivalent of the /R switch for Chkdisk. It’s not selected by default, and even when I clicked it, the disk check ran perfectly, without incident. I tried running Chkdsk /r from the command prompt on the same disk, with no excessive memory usage.

As a final stress test, I ran Chkdsk with this option on a 160GB portable USB hard drive, as prompted by the Scan and Fix dialog box. It did indeed exhibit what seemed like alarming behavior, rapidly consuming all but 50MB 500MB or so of the 6GB of RAM on my test system. (That green bar on the bottom means I’m using roughly 93% of available RAM.)

[Click image to see a larger version]

I allowed the process to run, and although it took roughly 15 minutes to complete the check, memory usage never hit the system’s maximum, other programs remained completely responsive, and I was even able to run a second instance of Chkdsk /R on another USB drive.

Oh, and the original report was slightly off base. The extreme memory usage appears to be in the Explorer.exe process, not in Chkdsk. Update: The original report noted, correctly, that high memory usage is observed in the Chkdsk.exe process if you kick off the disk check from a command prompt. If you perform the exact same operation from the more familiar graphical interface, the measurement in Task Manager is different, with Explorer.exe being credited with the memory usage. However, the end result is exactly the same. I repeated these tests using both the graphical and command-line methods on multiple drives to confirm.

[Click image to see a larger version]

Windows boss Steven Sinofsky took the rare step of visiting the original blog and posted a comment explaining the issue:

In this case, we haven’t reproduced the crash…. [T]he design was to use more memory on purpose to speed things up, but never unbounded — we requset [sic] the available memory and operate within that leaving at least 50M of physical memory. Our assumption was that using /r means your disk is such that you would prefer to get the repair done and over with rather than keep working.

While we appreciate the drama of “critical bug” and then the pickup of “showstopper” that I’ve seen, we might take a step back and realize that this might not have that defcon level. Bugs that are so severe as to require immediate patches and attention would have to have no workarounds and would generally be such that a large set of people would run across them in the normal course of using their PC.

My experience bears out that explanation perfectly. According to Sinofsky, Microsoft is now doing “overnight stress testing of 40 machines” to see whether the bug is reproducible. If so, I would expect a patch in short order. But based on my testing I have to agree this is interesting, but far from a “show stopper.”

Ed BottEd Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 229 Talkback(s)
Ha ha ha
Where were you when anyone cared about this? (Read the rest)
Posted by: Ed Bott Posted on: 09/10/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Why are people so obsessed with unused RAM?  NonZealot | 08/05/09
It's not the unused RAM thing  Lerianis10 | 08/05/09
Why not?  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Yup  rdhalsteatzd | 08/05/09
Have to agree - Much Ado About Almost-Nothing  rickb@... | 08/06/09
/r is now radical???  jasonp@... | 08/06/09
That's my opinion based on experience  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/06/09
I find chkdsk myself useless for the most part  Randalllind | 08/06/09
Gee, I use chkdsk /f on occasion  UAC nanny screen | 08/06/09
Sounds to me like your HDD is about to die!  de-void | 08/10/09
Bad sectors  blaacksheep | 08/06/09
Whats the problem  rbettencourt@... | 08/06/09
it isn't even that  Macintoshtoffy | 08/06/09
Not quite  de-void | 08/10/09
So then how much?  payton@... | 08/06/09
Bogus.  sporkfighter | 08/07/09
chkdsk /r??  jmarks50@... | 08/24/09
Good question  NStalnecker | 08/05/09
I understand your confusion  frgough | 08/05/09
What are you talking about?  NonZealot | 08/05/09
I have to agree with Zealot...  vulpine@... | 08/06/09
That was the point...  mojorison67@... | 08/07/09
ChkDsk isn't a normal app  de-void | 08/10/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  Badgered | 08/05/09
As stated in the article  tikigawd | 08/06/09
re: As stated  Badgered | 08/06/09
Why is a non-boot drive less critical?  arkware | 08/06/09
As in all things, context is key  CrunchyFerrett | 08/06/09
Most users WOULD BE 'unaware of what's happening'  Spainy53 | 08/07/09
Clarification  Badgered | 08/06/09
DUH!  Dr.Who | 08/06/09
As with many things  tikigawd | 08/06/09
Not as critical...?  Wolfie2K3 | 08/06/09
re: Critical  Badgered | 08/07/09
So... back up your data  tikigawd | 08/08/09
I agree ...  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
As far as I know...  zwhittakerZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Actually, it's 3 to 3.5 GB for X86  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Well, not quite.  BrandonLive | 08/05/09
Thanks  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
You can use more than 2G on x86  rpmyers1 | 08/05/09
I Thought  jdbukis@... | 08/06/09
It was added with XP SP2  LiquidLearner | 08/06/09
Unless  LiquidLearner | 08/06/09
Excellent point Brandon ...  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 08/06/09
As I understand it ...  mwagner@... | 08/06/09
I really appreciate all the insightful technicallities...  shadfurman | 08/11/09
Thanks for the info  dfolk2 | 08/06/09
Thanks Adrian.  No More Open Source Software!! | 08/06/09
Please, Adrian...do your OWN research! I ain't gonna do it for you!  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 08/10/09
Slight Misinformation  z_williamson | 08/05/09
You're correct  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Sounds like Enquirer quality reporting: Aliens ate my dog!  BillDem | 08/05/09
Wrong, if it's a memory leak as stated.  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Link to the article that states it is a memory leak  NonZealot | 08/06/09
Memory leaks don't always BSOD the system.  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
So when will SP1 be coming out?  vulpine@... | 08/06/09
Nah...  Sleeper Service | 08/07/09
There is no error  honeymonster | 08/09/09
I saw the Twitter see-saw banter  zwhittakerZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Seriously?  dogbreath1 | 08/05/09
The /r switch is not a default  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
Non sequitur  mjpollard | 08/05/09
ditto!  dogbreath1 | 08/05/09
You're not "locked out"  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
High-performance computing  dogbreath1 | 08/05/09
Code does not always follow the same execution path.  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
There is no memory leak. It's a myth. Move on, nothing to see here (nt)  honeymonster | 08/09/09
Maybe not "insane"  ZDnet Reader 43 | 08/05/09
Thank you  thx-1138_@... | 08/06/09
Not to mention the fact that  honeymonster | 08/09/09
I don't get it.  deowll | 08/06/09
Bad RAM will lead to crashes  sverm@... | 08/05/09
And that is bad why?  jsedlak | 08/05/09
All BSOD I see these days are cause by bad memory  Randalllind | 08/06/09
Couldn't bad RAM cause crashes regardless of chkdsk?  tikigawd | 08/06/09
yea  Randalllind | 08/06/09
I was being sarcastic  tikigawd | 08/06/09
Memtest86 is OK, but it  nfhiggs@... | 08/06/09
That's true of almost any diag utility on a PC  LiquidLearner | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  condelirios | 08/05/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  gkeramidas@... | 08/05/09
Does this also occur on Windows Server 2008 R2?  Michael Kelly | 08/05/09
Yes, it does occur on Server 2008  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/05/09
If you prepared for disk failure-  CTRLurself | 08/06/09
I agree  LiquidLearner | 08/06/09
excellent article  GDF | 08/05/09
Faulty Drives Only?  lehnerus2000 | 08/05/09
I've done this  Bryan Price | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  SteveZodiac | 08/06/09
The PC has the RAM.  eljay001 | 08/06/09
Bug or feature???  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Stroustrup primer on memory leaks...  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Perhaps you need to re-read that primer you keep posting  Omnigrok | 08/06/09
Read the links in the Bott article  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Reading comprehension ...  mckenzl | 08/06/09
Check out the link in the Bott article...  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  csharp4 | 08/06/09
If true, what else can this faulty chipset driver mess up?  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Wow, can you name the perfect foundation you code for!  NonZealot | 08/06/09
That doesn't answer the question  UAC nanny screen | 08/06/09
I only want my code to work all the time!  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
You follow your clients example  satovey@... | 08/07/09
Not at square one  Greenknight_z | 08/07/09
Microsoft has said no such thing  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/06/09
Chipset driver most likely to blame!  csharp4 | 08/06/09
There is not such thing as a "Showstopping bug" in Win7  WiredGuy | 08/06/09
Regarding that "error" that apears when a usb memory in inserted  ionutm | 08/06/09
Regarding that usb error  ionutm | 08/06/09
Fascinating to watch this unfold  Economister | 08/06/09
Look at the actual facts  NonZealot | 08/06/09
'Facts'?  Tom6 | 08/06/09
I agree but this doesn't fit the profile  NonZealot | 08/06/09
Balanced & realistic  Tom6 | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  super_J | 08/06/09
Terrible example  NonZealot | 08/06/09
Proved your ignorance  super_J | 08/06/09
Not according to Windows Task Manager  NonZealot | 08/06/09
Maybe you should debate the differences...  vulpine@... | 08/06/09
I disagree  eb276 | 08/07/09
You can disagree, but you'd be wrong.  rtk | 08/07/09
No i wouldn't  eb276 | 08/07/09
Here's a link for you to start with...  rtk | 08/07/09
Sorry buddy  eb276 | 08/07/09
and by the way  eb276 | 08/07/09
I'm not your buddy, guy. wink  rtk | 08/07/09
I don't believe you  eb276 | 08/09/09
You're so dramatic  ITLeader | 08/10/09
Just for clarification  rtk | 08/10/09
nt  eb276 | 08/10/09
There are scenarios  ITLeader | 08/10/09
Such as?  rtk | 08/10/09
How about the scenario  ITLeader | 08/10/09
Researching a bit further  ITLeader | 08/10/09
CUCM  Real World | 08/06/09
Well, no ...  super_J | 08/06/09
Something good about disk management in W7  koby@... | 08/06/09
afaik  magallanes | 08/06/09
The reason Win7 system disks are less fragmented ...  de-void | 08/11/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  bb_apptix | 08/06/09
Windows Mohave... the best example of Astroturf...  cosuna | 08/06/09
you?ll ever crash a system this way is very, very small and completely avoi  magallanes | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  JimAchuff | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  Pyrotech_z | 08/06/09
Arguably a feature??  johnnydoe1894 | 08/06/09
In this case, it is true  NonZealot | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  ramnet@... | 08/06/09
The only show-stopper here is the average consumer...  vulpine@... | 08/06/09
Bingo :*) [nt]  thx-1138_@... | 08/06/09
So how many of them...  Sleeper Service | 08/07/09
Contempt for unsophisticated users...  Spainy53 | 08/07/09
Actually, it's comtempt for human nature  thx-1138_@... | 08/07/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  SFalchionRomantic | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  TechTeach_z | 08/06/09
I found another "bug"...  jerry@... | 08/06/09
I havent....  JoeMama_z | 08/06/09
Yes!  jerry@... | 08/06/09
Reminds me of Win95 and Win98  satovey@... | 08/07/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  azsilvertip | 08/06/09
Crashed on me too  troubled241 | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  super_J | 08/06/09
@Ed Bott; please read this  D2 Ultima | 08/06/09
I added and "s" to your name by accident, my bad. (nt)  D2 Ultima | 08/06/09
You can edit posts. (nt)  ye | 08/06/09
Oh thanks for telling me  D2 Ultima | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  bob3160_z | 08/06/09
Geeks Drinking Too Much Soda  jpr75_z | 08/06/09
No.. Not soda...  Wolfie2K3 | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  ghirte@... | 08/06/09
How you kill an operating system...  mikifinaz1@... | 08/06/09
Half true, this is  D2 Ultima | 08/06/09
Maybe less  Spainy53 | 08/07/09
A Killer Win 7 Bug? Been around far longer.  Wolferzz | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  dwightr@... | 08/06/09
Not the same  Wolferzz | 08/06/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  Jackiesolution | 08/06/09
Geek Wars.... lol  Jibbits Jr | 08/06/09
Workaround? Do tell!  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
It would be nice, but...  Hazconj | 08/07/09
Regular users are not early adopters.  CPPDEV | 08/07/09
Quote from Mr. Bott's "rather nasty" link above....  CPPDEV | 08/06/09
Oh shut up.  Sleeper Service | 08/07/09
Memory leaks do not ALWAYS eat all the RAM!  CPPDEV | 08/07/09
Memory leaks NEVER stop short at physical RAM  honeymonster | 08/09/09
It's not a memory leak  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/07/09
So, is the "rather nasty" guy making it all up?  CPPDEV | 08/07/09
Yes, he is making it up  honeymonster | 08/09/09
It is not that difficult  honeymonster | 08/07/09
So, is the story made up?  CPPDEV | 08/07/09
Yes, it is made up  honeymonster | 08/08/09
Tried it with bitlocker, NTFS compression, EFS?  jparr | 08/07/09
Lets for the sake of arguement....  satovey@... | 08/07/09
Is everyone really this Ignorant?  Wolferzz | 08/07/09
No, they are deliberately facetious  honeymonster | 08/09/09
Maybe they are that stupid?  Wolferzz | 08/11/09
Looks like a PLOT to derail Win7  dtroyerSMU | 08/07/09
Not a plot, just mistrust of MS code.  CPPDEV | 08/07/09
And the rave reviews and positive reception of Windows 7 bothers you?  honeymonster | 08/09/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  morgancoxuk@... | 08/08/09
Re: Another reason to stay with XP ..by Microsoft  sphar@... | 08/09/09
Since when were "features" cured by changing the chipset?  whisperycat | 08/11/09
Never  NonZealot | 08/11/09
Except when they are, you mean?  whisperycat | 08/11/09
LOL ComputerWeekly is infallible?  NonZealot | 08/11/09
Still not clear  whisperycat | 08/11/09
If you're so certain and convinced...  thx-1138_@... | 08/11/09
Your post is counter-productive  NonZealot | 08/11/09
I concur.  honeymonster | 08/11/09
There were 2 (two) issues reported originally  honeymonster | 08/11/09
You might want to read this...  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/11/09
Indeed. I just wish  honeymonster | 08/11/09
Oh no I've been told off by NZ & Hmonster!  whisperycat | 08/12/09
Ok, to keep it REALLY simple  honeymonster | 08/12/09
Keep reading...  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/12/09
I have to agree with NZ, you are the one who is looking stupid  honeymonster | 08/11/09
A message for the faithfull  whisperycat | 08/12/09
So you're a self-proclaimed troll? or..  honeymonster | 08/12/09
Poor Honey  whisperycat | 08/12/09
Whisperycat's "Confessions of a trolling, time-waster"  thx-1138_@... | 08/12/09
Great essay!  whisperycat | 08/12/09
Thanks, thx-1138! Remember Peter Gutmann?  honeymonster | 08/12/09
@whisperytroll  thx-1138_@... | 08/12/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  whisperycat | 08/12/09
nasty bug  laszlo97 | 08/14/09
Let's talk about the UI regressions instead.  dgurney | 08/16/09
Windows 7 a Microsoft BUG? Sorry, YES...  savge | 08/26/09
Bahahahahahahah  rtk | 08/26/09
RE: A killer Windows 7 bug? Sorry, no  UsernameRequired | 09/10/09
Ha ha ha  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 09/10/09

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