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August 20th, 2007

We need less whining, more complaining about Vista

Posted by Ed Bott @ 12:28 pm

Categories: Windows Vista

Tags: Microsoft Windows XP, Problem, Microsoft Windows Vista, Ed Bott

[For background, see my earlier post: No more Vista whining, please]

All computers have problems. Most of those problems have solutions or workarounds. XP users have had six years to build up a distributed encyclopedia of tribal knowledge documenting those problems and their solutions. If you get an error message with XP, you can Google the error code or message text and have a reasonable expectation of finding a solution. If you encounter an error or a broken feature in Vista, on the other hand, you’re much less likely to find an answer today and much more likely to find others asking the same question as you. (With luck, they’ll all update their posts when the answer turns up, as it inevitably does.)

This phenomenon isn’t new. I remember struggling with the same frustrating information vacuum in 2001 and 2002, after XP’s RTM and before SP1. The single most frustrating thing about working with Vista today, just as it was back then with XP, is that this collection of accumulated experience hasn’t achieved much mass yet. In another year or two, early adopters will have made that distributed knowledge base (not to mention Microsoft’s official Knowledge Base) considerably larger.

So how do we get to that point? Less whining, more complaining.

I’ve got no patience for Vista whiners, but I will make extra time to read and respond to a good Vista complaint. What’s the difference? Take a look at any of Tim Anderson’s information-rich posts on Vista, like Audio in Vista: more hell than heaven, where Tim makes a pretty convincing case that “the actual, real-world experience of audio in Vista is mixed at best.” Here’s an executive summary that I clipped together, but it’s worth reading the whole thing (including the comments):

Maybe some of these problems are specific to my machine or the way it is configured. Maybe, and I look forward to your tips. But … I don’t see many posts from musicians raving about how much better Vista is for their work. I see plenty of posts about problems with audio in Vista. …

The bottom line is that Vista audio should be great, but in practice it is problematic for many users. Why? Here are a few possibilities.

And then he lays out those possibilities in provocative fashion.

The post is filled with enough personal experience to assure me that this author knows what he’s talking about and hasn’t taken anything for granted. It includes plenty of sharp, detailed questions that he hasn’t been able to answer yet. Tim offers some interesting theories for discussion and debate, and best of all, he offers links to other information-rich, detailed conversations on the same topic so you can get up to speed quickly. There’s no doubt that Tim has a legitimate complaint about how Vista is working for him. He’s not just whining.

And guess what? Some top Microsoft developers showed up in the comments section at Tim’s blog to answer some of his questions and ask for more details. Respondents included Larry Osterman, who works on the core Windows audio engine for Vista and whose blog is a must-read if you’re even slightly interested in the Windows Vista audio stack.

Whiners don’t link, either, except to their own stuff. If you’re having audio-related problems with Windows Vista and you try to find answers, who’s going to be more helpful: the elite columnist trolling for page views by mixing up a big batch of snarky, whiny bloggage about how much Vista sucks? Or the blogger or newsgroup contributor who provides the one tiny technical detail you needed to fix an annoyance?

I thought one comment from the previous thread was right on the money. Voska writes:

I think it’s because people have forgotten all the problems they had with XP when it first came out. … [P]eople forget that it’s XP with Service pack 2 and years of driver support that gave them this system that worked. The same will happen with Vista too. That’s why I’m staying away from Vista right now, I know it will get tons better with time. Those that want to live on the bleeding edge running the latest hardware with the latest OS are the people that find the problems that makes my life with a new OS better in the future. It’s silly to hear them complaining like, it makes no sense. [emphasis added]

Right. If you buy an off-the-shelf PC from a big-name retailer like Dell or Toshiba or Sony (or Apple, if you install Vista using Bootcamp or Parallels or VMWare Fusion), you’re going to have lots of company, because tens of thousands, maybe millions of fellow customers will be using the same OS on the same exact hardware as you. Problems with those popular configurations will show up quickly and, presumably, be fixed (or at least documented) in short order.

But what happens when you build your own PC by mixing and matching parts, including a new version of Windows that handles hardware in some radically different ways? You’ve just increased the complexity of the system and the risk that you’ll encounter some strange toxic interaction of hardware and software that only affects the exclusive club of fellow enthusiasts of people running that exact combination of hardware, software, and OS. That type of issue can be extraordinarily frustrating to solve. But you can’t expect to get help or answers if you don’t provide some details.

And if all you’re gong to do is whine, you’re part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

Ed BottEd Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 163 Talkback(s)
RE: We need less whining, more complaining about Vista
It's Feb 2008, still no SP1. Got new Dell laptop, within two weeks I boot up to system corrupt error. Even though Windows tells me which files are corrupt, it won't fix them. Eventually my oldest sys ... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Rooooo Posted on: 02/24/08 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Excellent post!  bond07 | 08/20/07
Agreed  nucrash | 08/21/07
agreed  pcguy777 | 08/22/07
Excellent  aussieblnd@... | 08/22/07
The value of a good error report  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
MS and Linux distros have different audiences  dmoisan@... | 08/20/07
Funny you should mention that  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/21/07
Lightning/Lightning Bug  JJ Brannon | 08/21/07
BUGS  aussieblnd@... | 08/22/07
Vista is already better  Scott K. | 08/20/07
Vista is not very good - actually pretty bad  RickyF | 08/20/07
There's nothing wrong with feeling that way  Michael Kelly | 08/20/07
Exactly  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/20/07
My amiable disagreement with 3% or so of your comments  DannyO_0x98 | 08/21/07
My bad experience with OS X  Michael Kelly | 08/21/07
The problem of poor research, documentation and spreading FUD  User-01 | 08/21/07
Here's the thing though  Michael Kelly | 08/21/07
Well put...  ItsTheBottomLine | 08/21/07
How flattering  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Vista Bad (and or not good)  Jaytmoon | 08/21/07
That's bizarre  stano360 | 08/21/07
Where's the nonsense  Freebird54 | 08/22/07
Damnation by Faint Praise  smithkl42 | 08/20/07
Setting a new standard  Richard Flude | 08/20/07
Here's what you're missing  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/20/07
Right I am missing it  Richard Flude | 08/20/07
Whine all you want  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/20/07
He doesn't even use Vista.  ShadeTree | 08/20/07
Partly correct  Richard Flude | 08/20/07
RE:Partly correct  HerbieHightower | 08/21/07
Herbie... funny  MacCanuck | 08/21/07
Oh contraire!  ShadeTree | 08/21/07
But if you cant get it to install successfully...  mrlinux | 08/21/07
That's "Au Contraire" (nt)  bportlock | 08/22/07
In other words...  John L. Ries | 08/22/07
So says the hypocrite  MacCanuck | 08/21/07
So are you!  ShadeTree | 08/21/07
Do you mean to say....  zkiwi | 08/21/07
Sorry you can't stand to be held  MacCanuck | 08/21/07
RE: MacCanuck  ShadeTree | 08/21/07
Yes Shade, predictable... run away!!!!  MacCanuck | 08/22/07
Philosophical question  frgough | 08/21/07
Here's what you're missing  andyenergy1 | 08/21/07
Vista is going Linux way?  Solid Water | 08/21/07
You pay for vista  Richard Flude | 08/21/07
Message has been deleted.  Jeremy W | 08/20/07
Poor analogy  ken_ballard@... | 08/20/07
I am always amazed  frgough | 08/21/07
Redmond does not have money for V&V?  Solid Water | 08/21/07
Huh?  Jeremy W | 08/22/07
I bought the license, I use the OS; thus I have the right to complain  zaine_ridling | 08/20/07
Free speech  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Nicely put!  Freebird54 | 08/22/07
Yes, I'm offered money to complain about Vista  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/20/07
Honesty  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Maybe if you use your real name  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/20/07
"Real name" doesn't carry that much weight  Michael Kelly | 08/20/07
I was afraid of that  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
No offense taken  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/21/07
Now that's the truth  zaine_ridling | 08/21/07
Vista..../XP  proton_z | 08/21/07
when people ever stop  toolman1 | 08/21/07
XP LOYALIST  barry2 | 08/20/07
I'm sure you fealt the same when XP came out ....  ShadeTree | 08/21/07
Just thinking the same thing  voska | 08/21/07
Or you can just revert the interface to Win2000 style.  odubtaig | 08/23/07
I know I did  Absolutely | 08/23/07
Vista fine on home-built PC's  bgetreu | 08/20/07
I agree.  Skullet | 08/21/07
why not try this ...  ruped24 | 08/20/07
A NEW HOPE  barry2 | 08/20/07
Hello complaint department?  zmud | 08/21/07
Is There a Reason?  barry2 | 08/21/07
Yes, there's a reason  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/21/07
Why bother with a Reason?  Absolutely | 08/23/07
Where are Shade Tree and NonZealot and No Axe?  mlindl | 08/21/07
Sorry Shade, saw you after the post.  mlindl | 08/21/07
at lest one mac toll had to come out of the wood work (NT)  SO.CAL Guy | 08/21/07
Okay, no whine here.  Dr_Zinj | 08/21/07
Vista is good  ericm770@... | 08/21/07
I'm a new Vista user today.  greatbluewhale1@... | 08/21/07
Vista Is Much Better  FloydW | 08/21/07
Vista candy  rencorp@... | 08/21/07
hear, hear.  Jim Johnson | 08/21/07
We need less Vista.  Resuna | 08/21/07
Makes sense  voska | 08/21/07
Scalability in the next 5 years  cquirke | 08/21/07
Five years is a long time  flatliner | 08/21/07
Why is that a requirement? Why now?  Resuna | 08/22/07
Brand Name PCs suck  cquirke | 08/21/07
Read it again  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/21/07
Interesting point Ed  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 08/22/07
Well - -YEAH  Sagax- | 08/21/07
I won't whine or complain  ds5929 | 08/21/07
The usual suspects!  ShadeTree | 08/21/07
And the other "usual suspects" like ShadeTree...  bportlock | 08/22/07
Complaint or whine?  chf3 | 08/21/07
"VISTA" hahaha !  jackie40d@... | 08/21/07
People should complain!  DemonX | 08/21/07
All computers have problems.  henklaak | 08/21/07
No, I meant what I wrote  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/21/07
VISTA my experiance and findings......  carlsf@... | 08/21/07
Well said, Ed.  bigmutt | 08/21/07
Flawed Vista  emmaco@... | 08/21/07
the usual suspects...  inertman@... | 08/21/07
no whining here.  Mujibahr | 08/21/07
Calling a pig a pig  Ole Man | 08/21/07
Re: Calling a pig a pig  djt0711 | 08/21/07
Why are you squealing?  Ole Man | 08/22/07
Buy Mac or download Linux Problem solved.  mikifinaz1@... | 08/21/07
Not so fast  bdoserr | 08/22/07
Kernel versions  Freebird54 | 08/22/07
Sigh...  bdoserr | 08/22/07
It would seem to me...  LazLong | 08/22/07
Thanks for the link  bdoserr | 08/22/07
My kinda Journalist!  ballmerrules@... | 08/21/07
"There aren't enough skilled programmers "  barry2 | 08/21/07
What about Adrian's complaint?  TripleII | 08/21/07
Is constructive complaining worth it?  Mitch 74 | 08/22/07
Classic case of Stockholm Syndrome  Bozzer | 08/22/07
Whining? I have a solution.  friedtoast@... | 08/22/07
enjoying vista  thinklady | 08/22/07
uninformed lady, please check your facts!  Mitch 74 | 08/22/07
As are all good Redmondites  Ole Man | 08/22/07
Whining about whining  cd003284@... | 08/22/07
The need for crucifixion ...  johnfenjackson@... | 08/22/07
The need for crucifixion ...  cd003284@... | 08/22/07
Winows xp/vista does way more than any other os  pcguy777 | 08/22/07
What does Vista do...  msalzberg | 08/22/07
And when the wrinkles are all ironed out  Ole Man | 08/22/07
No way.  TripleII | 08/22/07
adding aftermarket parts to the car analogy  Absolutely | 08/23/07
My only question!!!!!!!!!!  rajeev.bhatta@... | 08/22/07
I agree  DonBurnett | 08/22/07
"Microsoft gave these third party companies much time "  Ole Man | 08/22/07
Vista Validation Issue  moghile@... | 08/22/07
TechGuy.Org / Vista Help. Free. Yes.... Free.  pcguy777 | 08/22/07
Still More Bloat  Jeremy W | 08/22/07
The Truth about Vista...  Jeremy W | 08/22/07
MS has missed the mark with Vista!  jgsilva@... | 08/22/07
Great Article  jallen64 | 08/23/07
You Got That Right, Ed!  rush@... | 08/23/07
The Vista OS core is bad  The_Curmudgeon | 08/23/07
Sorry, that's total BS  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/24/07
That's It!!!!  Kromaethius | 08/24/07
Irritating Vista Bug!  Herb3 | 08/24/07
Yes, I've seen that too  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 08/25/07
I COMPLAIN by deleting Vista  XweAponX | 08/24/07
What's total BS is Microsoft screwing up WGA with their OWN updates!  johnf76@... | 08/26/07
Buy less Vista..that makes the point.  wellsoul2@... | 08/26/07
Experience with 64-bit Vista  pesweet | 08/27/07
XP was wonderful when I first ran it...  sframberger@... | 08/28/07
No Complaints Needed about Vista.  Solid Jedi Knight | 08/30/07
Vista Login Page Duplicate Names  bioinfo-user | 08/31/07
Vista Login Page Duplicate Names  turbodon | 09/02/07
Why not call Fujitsu and ask?  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 09/03/07
Duplicate Login Vista Fujutsu  snorglamp | 09/04/07
Omnipass Solution  snorglamp | 09/04/07
Not on an Asus notebook  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 09/06/07
Proposed Solution  techrepublic@... | 09/06/07
Duplicate Login Accounts Vista Fujitsu  snorglamp | 09/04/07
RE: We need less whining, more complaining about Vista  adrian.ball@... | 09/18/07
RE: We need less whining, more complaining about Vista  Rooooo | 02/24/08

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