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July 18th, 2006

MS says WGA has caught 60 million Windows cheaters

Posted by Ed Bott @ 6:44 am

Categories: WGA

Tags:

In Focus » See more posts on: WGA, WGA

Two weeks ago, I reported on a terse e-mail exchange with Microsoft, in which a spokesperson acknowledged that 80% of all computers that fail the Windows Genuine Advantage validation check do so because they are using stolen or pirated volume license keys.

I asked what I thought was a reasonable question: Where do the other 20% come from? According to the same spokesperson, those installations are caused by “various forms of tampering and unauthorized OEM installations.” I couldn’t get any more details.

Two days ago, After looking over this list, the numbers don't add up for me… Microsoft’s Alex Kochis, a member of the WGA product management team, published a blog entry trying to add more details to the discussion. In When a 'False Positive' isn't a false positive, he passes along one staggering statistic: “About 1 in 5 of the 300 million PCs that have run WGA validation fail.”

Yow! By my calculations, that’s 60 million people who’ve been informed by Microsoft that they’re running “non-genuine” copies of Windows.

But according to Kochis, Microsoft’s validation tool is nearly perfect, and virtually everyone who’s been tagged by the WGA Validation utility is indeed a pirate or a victim of a pirate:

To be precise, an actual 'false positive' would occur if WGA identified a specific copy of windows installed on a system as non-genuine or unlicensed when in fact it was genuine and licensed. Of the hundreds of millions of WGA validations to date, only a handful of actual false positives have been seen. Most of these were due to data entry errors that were quickly corrected and only occurred for a short period of time.

Given the extremely small number of technical failures of WGA why else might someone think that their system was falsely identified as running counterfeit Windows? If they aren't actual 'false positives' what are they? It turns out there are a number of scenarios that could result in a WGA validation failure that a user might be surprised by or even deny… [emphasis added]

He goes on to point out four scenarios:

  • Scenario 1: High-quality counterfeit copies of Windows. Apparently this number isn’t very large at all. As Kochis notes, “So far we've provided hundreds of free copies of Windows to users who've been ripped by high-quality counterfeit…”
  • Scenario 2: The user installs the same copy and key to more than one PC at a time. I don’t understand why this scenario occurs at all. Is the Validation utility really looking at individual keys and identifying people who are reusing a retail or upgrade copy? In this case, shouldn’t activation fail when the user tries to install the second copy?
  • Scenario 3: A friend or acquaintance offers to “fix” your computer and installs a pirated or “cracked” copy of Windows. I can definitely see this one happening, especially when a system is compromised by a spyware or virus infestation.
  • Scenario 4: You take your PC in to be repaired and the repair shop takes a shortcut by reinstalling a volume-licensed copy of Windows. Again, I can see exactly why this happens. How many customers bring in their official restore media? Not many, I’d wager. How many repair shops want to take the extra time (and charge the customer) to restore from the official media? What happens when the media that came with the PC is out of date and the shop has to install a service pack and several dozen patches? In that scenario, should the customer have to purchase a brand-new license when they already paid for one?

After looking over this list, the numbers don’t add up for me, and they certainly don’t explain why Microsoft is attacking this problem with such a vengeance. Scenario 1 is rare, and Scenario 2 shouldn’t occur at all if Windows Product Activation is working properly. In scenarios 3 and 4, some of those customers might be “upgrading” from Windows 98 or Windows Me, but I suspect that most already have a valid Windows XP license, and the person doing the repair took a shortcut to avoid the hassle of a manual install using a possibly outdated version of Windows. In those cases, the end result of the validation check is that the user is going to either have to reinstall their legitimate copy or jump through some hoops to change the product key. It’s a bookkeeping change that hassles the customer and doesn’t bring in any money to Microsoft’s bottom line.

Think about it: 60 million people have been hassled by Windows Genuine Validation. And for what? The numbers don’t add up.

Ed BottEd Bott is an award-winning technology writer with more than two decades' experience writing for mainstream media outlets and online publications. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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#4 is common enough
I had a client who bought a PC from a well known Canadian computer store chain. The client isn't too computer literate. The client completely ignored the requests for service pack 2 for Windows XP or ... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Gis Bun Posted on: 06/07/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
This i believe  not of this world | 07/18/06
60 mill legitimate users.  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
You just admitted to being the ....  ShadeTree | 07/19/06
Not the reason...  mds_z | 07/21/06
Here, Here - Absolutely Correct  Sheeva | 07/25/06
WGA False Positive  Rob Groh | 07/19/06
Your right I saw it too  troubled241 | 08/09/06
60 Million hassled?  rhargat@... | 07/18/06
100 % legal Windows XP user  Rumsfeld2006 | 08/09/06
Unfortunately Ed, this is MS's choice...  Monkey_MCSE | 07/18/06
60 million really isn't that many  voska | 07/18/06
60 mill disgruntled phone calls....  Monkey_MCSE | 07/18/06
and you also  Shelendrea | 07/18/06
Of course there is  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
Yeah, but who's revenue?  thegestunkenaraygun | 07/20/06
.. to a 900 number  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
I was one...  Hey U | 07/19/06
Well...  zkiwi | 07/18/06
I'd ignore the problem  voska | 07/18/06
What a piece of work...  zkiwi | 07/18/06
How is that a moral problem it sounds like a software problem  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Well, you dont follow the problem  Cayble | 07/21/06
You like so many others  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Simple answer  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
So you believe that  zkiwi | 07/18/06
In a word, yes  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/19/06
I hope you're just being a troll...  mds_z | 07/21/06
you mean patches  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
What would I do...  Jeanie2424 | 07/19/06
no need to give up windows alltogether  clockmendergb@... | 07/19/06
Yes, I'm in the choir too!  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
Waiting is unacceptable.  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
RE: Well...  joe6pack_z | 07/21/06
It's only 0.87% of the worlds population  elmarioc | 07/19/06
Think about it  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Let's assume that all 60 millions are pirates....  bportlock | 07/18/06
I liked this portion...  ju1ce | 07/18/06
Pirates are not affected by WGA  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
You know what they are going to do  FADS_z | 07/18/06
Don't agree  european | 07/19/06
Mars?  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
You are wrong.  OldMarine | 07/19/06
I agree with you whole heartedly.  Monkey_MCSE | 07/18/06
Customer lock-in never succeeds...  bportlock | 07/18/06
Dialing for dollars.  enduser_z | 07/18/06
WGA failure rate dooms the whole scheme  bportlock | 07/18/06
I'm afraid you prove my point.  enduser_z | 07/18/06
Errr.....  bportlock | 07/18/06
Better answer than not patching windows.  enduser_z | 07/18/06
I'll try to help  kaworu1986 | 07/19/06
you're right...unfortunately..  mdsmedia | 07/19/06
Not that simple  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
is it possible?  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
Windows Genuine Advantage Error 0?80080299  BigSens0r | 07/19/06
Maths  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
I meant 6 million people, not pounds.  enduser_z | 07/18/06
10% I don't think that is even close  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Can a corporation suffer from megalomania?  Cely | 08/10/06
Microsoft's Dilemma:  Rob Groh | 07/19/06
Comfort  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
hackers aren't heartless  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
They already have 60 million potential Internet zombies out there  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
Where's the downside?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
Of those 60 million...  zkiwi | 07/18/06
Awesome!  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
Problem  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
They won't have to buy another copy of XP...  Rob Groh | 07/19/06
Message has been deleted.  myfevertoy | 10/22/06
Don't worry, No_Horse_To_Beat will be along soon...  James T. Kirk | 07/18/06
Scenario #3  wolf_z | 07/18/06
One thing to remember...  ju1ce | 07/18/06
No, that's not true  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
MB changes....  DCMann | 07/19/06
Exactly  RocketEater | 07/19/06
Not the same issue  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
This has happened to me every time!  KTHernandez | 07/21/06
why is it  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
The whole WGA thing is quite simple...  msolgeek | 07/18/06
Reply to MSOLGEEK  Old_Tenor | 07/18/06
Warn us, would you?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
I don't drink coffee but  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
that I'd lke to see.  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
Believe it or not, there are more than 60 million unlicensed windows  FADS_z | 07/18/06
That only account for less than 20%  voska | 07/18/06
?About 1 in 5 of the 300 million PCs that have run WGA validation fail.?  FADS_z | 07/18/06
Off Track  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Linux is free  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
The problem is hardly the developing countries  european | 07/19/06
Your Dumb As A Box Of Rocks If You Believe That.  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Microsoft is screwing customers that paid?  PC Geek | 07/19/06
I think you're missing the major point Ed was trying to make  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
then explain DELL  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
your reply  raunchy | 07/20/06
Why is so hard to believe?  jpr75_z | 07/18/06
It's astronomically impossible to believe that.  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
You keep blaming MS for catching criminals...  PC Geek | 07/20/06
the curent system makes me sick  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Why is so hard to believe? Not that hard  format4nz@... | 07/20/06
Scenario 5  Ardian Daka | 07/18/06
You didn't read the post, did you?  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
What's a  Shelendrea | 07/18/06
The knights who say Ni!  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
Let's try again...  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
Is that related to ...  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/18/06
My kids...  none none | 07/18/06
Message has been deleted.  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Message has been deleted.  IceTheNet@... | 07/21/06
Communist Microsoft  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
Somebody savvy enough to install a cracked version of windows  zmud | 07/18/06
You have to be savvy to install bogus software?  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
WGA has also affected sysprep  skiplarson | 07/19/06
Is it enough to cause me to switch to another OS at work?  european | 07/19/06
Here's a question for MS  bbbaldie_z | 07/20/06
Forget directing the question to MS or Dell...  cglrcng@... | 07/20/06
Actually that should be a question for Dell  skiplarson | 07/21/06
You have the option to buy them with Free-DOS  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
MS answer  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
20% of 60 million  John L. Ries | 07/18/06
That's not what MS says...  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/18/06
I stand corrected  John L. Ries | 07/18/06
The WGA forum at Microsoft....  bportlock | 07/18/06
Ed, Don't believe anything M$ says  bart001fr | 07/21/06
More like SUSPECTED...  BitTwiddler | 07/18/06
Suspected?  bart001fr | 07/19/06
They better be carefull, they will drive the adoption of Linux and  DonnieBoy | 07/18/06
yeah like ms windows for 3rd world countries  not of this world | 07/18/06
Actually this is stated policy by Bill Gates  WinnebagoBoy | 07/18/06
Like that is going work.  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Yeah sure  TonyMcS | 07/18/06
Your number is way off...  Linux User 147560 | 07/19/06
IDC says Linux share is 1.4%  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/19/06
Try Google Search Before Speaking FUD  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Nobody's spreading FUD  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/19/06
Ok Nobody  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
IDC - Microsoft's PAID $HILL!  linuxiac | 07/20/06
makes sense  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
So what, they aren't paying customers.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 07/19/06
mmm all the thieves are Windows users  barsteward | 07/19/06
YIP  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Your insane  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
yup move to linux if you can  SteveTheWirePuller | 07/19/06
MS is trying to block that.  mypl8s4u2 | 08/10/06
Where's No_Horse_To_Beat ?  Reverend MacFellow | 07/18/06
she and LD are on a date  not of this world | 07/18/06
Erm...  zkiwi | 07/18/06
He's waiting for the Official Truth  critic-at-arms | 07/21/06
I think MS is obfuscating the issue  WinnebagoBoy | 07/18/06
Don't believe it  opensourcepro | 07/18/06
I failed once  mail@... | 07/18/06
I failed once as well.....  Badgered | 07/18/06
Probably 60 Million in USA alone  bka1959 | 07/18/06
And 60 million more in Europe  european | 07/19/06
CHINA  rflori@... | 08/11/06
I don't care, I bought my copy of XP and  jaszman | 07/18/06
But are you mad enough to switch?  enduser_z | 07/18/06
Chickens, to eggs, and back to chickens.  Henrik Moller | 07/18/06
Very nice comparison  european | 07/19/06
to Linux games via Mac?  Akenhead | 07/19/06
http://transgaming.com!  linuxiac | 07/20/06
Actually now that you mention it, Ubuntu is...  jaszman | 07/21/06
People can't switch  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
MS$ says 'volume licenced' is PIRACY ??  High Altitude | 07/19/06
Linux+CEDEGA= Gaming machine  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
The quest for revenue  Chad_z | 07/18/06
Perhaps you don't have kids  TonyMcS | 07/18/06
Oooh! Swapping one extreme for the other!  HypnoToad | 07/18/06
Uhh  nhac | 07/19/06
Scenario #5 : WGA's mechanisms are as reliable and "fine"-tuned  michael_t | 07/18/06
not a bit.  nhac | 07/19/06
Microsoft wrote the code. Therefore, what's the chance it's RELIABLE?  HypnoToad | 07/18/06
Brand New Sony Vaio Fails!  nwnick | 07/19/06
New Dell Fails  IceTheNet@... | 07/19/06
Another way out  jwslzs1@... | 07/19/06
Buy a license key online  timtro | 08/09/06
300 Million Unique PCs or 300 Million Attempts?  adsanders@... | 07/19/06
Good question  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/19/06
Thanks for the clarification  adsanders@... | 07/19/06
I fall under number 4  FarmerBob2 | 07/19/06
if Linux was easier to use  european | 07/19/06
You miss the point  Bryn | 07/19/06
How come you use a computer??  european | 07/19/06
Lite Windows Manager?  D-cat | 07/20/06
Message has been deleted.  linuxiac | 07/20/06
Don't forget to mention  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Thank you  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/19/06
Yep, A simple solution to the issue  progodelic@... | 07/26/06
Who is really to blame.  robertrosenthal | 07/19/06
Excuse me?????  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
Why buy new ones?  angelsix | 07/19/06
Here's one example...  Wizard Prang | 08/22/06
Check out SLED with mono  smoring | 07/20/06
MS is not after money...  dick214@... | 07/19/06
300 million  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
Read the book...  bargeemike | 07/21/06
Move license to new machine when old system dies.  X-MarCap | 07/19/06
No false positives, eh?  mwagner@... | 07/19/06
Did you know?  msdead | 07/19/06
It's just data  Insight Driver | 07/19/06
The MS license ...  mwagner@... | 07/19/06
one each.  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
The one solution that works every time  thorn2 | 07/19/06
Can you blame them? Thanks EU!  onesparkee@... | 07/19/06
Don't blame the EU  wjarvis@... | 07/21/06
Billion the word is billion  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
What's the big deal?  Tyler_Durden | 07/19/06
PR BS...Boohoo M$  Teyecoon | 07/20/06
Boo and yaa!  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
I would have guessed higher.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 07/19/06
So what you're saying is...  Wizard Prang | 08/22/06
I'm going for Linux  srussell@... | 07/19/06
cedega runs PC games on linux.  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
M$ and WGA fiasco  vger_z | 07/19/06
To ease the pain  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Re:  chxtab@... | 10/07/06
WGA? Genuine?  bart001fr | 07/19/06
I did the same thing - Did not install the $%thing!  jshonka | 07/19/06
Get rid of MS firewall  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
firewall blockage of WGA  bart001fr | 07/20/06
Firewalls and WGA to become Killswitch?  bart001fr | 08/07/06
WGA that passed now fails  tony@... | 07/19/06
Ed, I'd like to talk to you....  mtgarden | 07/19/06
Send me an e-mail  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/19/06
Grap your receipts...... and SUE  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
WGA - How to get it off my machine?  sandyhart@... | 08/09/06
WGA  rabbit56 | 07/19/06
Mine initially failed the WGA test, BUT..  mwagrp | 07/19/06
Microsoft extremes  tspo | 07/19/06
no excuse  thefly1@... | 07/19/06
Time for change....  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
calling all hackers  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
key generators  mypl8s4u2 | 07/19/06
That's it!  terry@... | 07/19/06
Before you toss the machines  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
US v. Foreign counterfeits  angelsix | 07/19/06
Not the verification part but notificaton  cou-cou | 07/19/06
Other Government's reactions  linuxiac | 07/20/06
Endless technical fights  cou-cou | 07/23/06
The one missing point  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Do you know what is "notification part" means?  cou-cou | 07/23/06
If it wouldn't validate it would be the same...  LilBambi_z | 07/19/06
Legal Gouging  s_carter2000@... | 07/19/06
Re; Scenario 4  rmmontgomery@... | 07/19/06
For those who dont believe there can be 60 million pirated windows copies  ashdezign | 07/20/06
Thank you.  jmusto@... | 07/25/06
60M unpatchable M$ pc's ... great targets  smoring | 07/20/06
They're not "unpatchable"  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/20/06
Whoa, wait a minute ED.  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
Not 60 million of them  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/27/06
People are dishonest. This is a surprise?  kiddpeat | 07/20/06
FALSE POSITIVE here!!! Get LINUX!!! GAMES!!!  linuxiac | 07/20/06
FREE Fix!  linuxiac | 07/20/06
Have you tried Cedega?  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Subpoena Server  Telescreen_1984 | 07/20/06
French other coutries case?  epascal | 07/21/06
activation works with OEM versions from PC assemblers in France too  PhilippeV | 07/23/06
WGA and Vista  james_p | 07/21/06
Genuine Validation Nonsense  agonza6915@... | 07/21/06
Easy Soloution  dcadotte@... | 07/21/06
I agree with Microsoft on this one... Been there; Done that!  fredwhitaker@... | 07/21/06
Not the Point  Cardhu | 09/08/06
WGA Can Be Deadly to your PC  thxsparrow@... | 07/21/06
Buy Microsoft stock  PEO-employee-leasing | 07/21/06
WGA Inconsistant results  Warpdriver | 07/21/06
What do you do if ripped off  bea944 | 07/21/06
Message has been deleted.  IceTheNet@... | 07/21/06
60 million Windows cheaters  Poobah | 07/21/06
validation failed due to incorrect date  Itazu | 07/21/06
Scenario 6  jason.mailley | 07/21/06
666 Gazillion Pirates in the harbor !!!!  Senlac_Hill | 07/21/06
You Hit The Nail Right ON the Head  Ole Man | 07/23/06
Anything to plug LINUX  Dixie Penguin | 07/21/06
Fanbois or not...It's a genuine solution  Teyecoon | 07/21/06
it's not just zealots and champions  omc13 | 07/23/06
Ubuntu or Kubuntu  Cely | 08/10/06
Stop being victims  Cely | 08/10/06
Believe it or not -  retiredgeezergeek | 07/21/06
is it a bad thing or a good thing?  dkloke@... | 07/21/06
your WGA is a fake copy!  dkloke@... | 07/21/06
WGA says Windows not genuine  isjallen | 07/22/06
Windows Validation Tool  Holger178 | 07/22/06
60 million in US  llundgren@... | 07/22/06
How to loose customers, friends and influence people the MS way  Crafty Badger | 07/22/06
reformatting drive?  ezekiel@... | 07/22/06
Aye Zeke, keep backups.  D-cat | 07/22/06
Messege to kaworu1986  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 07/22/06
Remember the good old days?  john10corbett | 07/23/06
you're right, M$'s been trying for years to rent software.  Irritated_User | 10/07/06
upgrade  NJM_z | 07/23/06
WGA support information  HSITNER | 07/24/06
Too Late Harely!!  Xwindowsjunkie | 07/25/06
WGA - false positive  sandyhart@... | 08/09/06
WGA  sayatrist | 07/24/06
WGA  fwh4728 | 07/24/06
Windows Cheaters  jackjr12@... | 07/25/06
What they have nabbed  Ole Man | 07/25/06
Retailer experience  bubblesroe@... | 07/26/06
Retailer  bart001fr | 08/07/06
Can anyone tell me why....  jasonpaul | 07/28/06
OEM copy cann't be transferred  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/28/06
Rule????  bart001fr | 08/07/06
can't transfer an OEM license to a new PC  bdbonner | 08/10/06
WGA IS NOT ACCURATE! beefs!  rob_murray@... | 07/30/06
If you work there.....  Mectron | 07/31/06
How to obtain WGA troubleshooting assistance  cnfrisch | 08/12/06
The whole WGA is flawed to the max  Mectron | 07/31/06
Will the 60 million now buy MS Windows?  j.canoy@... | 08/03/06
illegal copy of windows xp  rbanks53350@... | 08/03/06
WGA problem  alta@... | 08/03/06
Can anybody say "Class Action"?  theteamtec | 08/03/06
Don't hold your breath, Matt  bart001fr | 08/07/06
WGA and Microsoft  tqmiso@... | 08/09/06
Probable 12 million persons Class Action Suit against MS  rdelaplaza | 08/09/06
EULA IS ILLEGAL!  BALTHOR | 08/09/06
Microsoft unequivocally validates,  richdave | 08/09/06
60 Million Failed Keys, not people  Douglas Karr | 08/09/06
Can't use what I have already paid for!  mjdean | 08/10/06
Just give them a call  mjdean | 08/14/06
Linux & WGA  rflori@... | 08/11/06
Microsoft defenders are scared but still optimistic  miyojim | 08/14/06
A test of honor of the people who value freedom  miyojim | 08/14/06
Windows Genuine Aggravation  bblackmoor@... | 10/04/06
Why do you idiots let MS install crap on your system automatically in the f  Know1 | 10/05/06
Fedora is already up and running  Bobajot | 10/08/06
Faulty OS is more likely...  Blahty | 11/04/06
A Windows Failure  Cardhu | 11/25/06
My copy was good, then bad.  mames1701 | 11/29/06
WORLDWIDE is the key  mihondo | 12/27/06
#4 is common enough  Gis Bun | 06/07/07

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