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December 11th, 2006

Do Windows users have an "undisclosed balance-sheet liability" too?

Posted by Ed Burnette @ 7:38 pm

Categories: Community, General, Microsoft, Patents, Programming

Tags:

In Focus » See more posts on: Microsoft Novell, Software Patents

Back in November, Steve Ballmer claimed that "every Linux customer has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability" because, he said, Linux was taking advantage of Microsoft innovations and patents. Perhaps Mr. Ballmer should be more worried about Windows users, who might face the same kind of liability under this logic.

Ballmer's unspoken threat was that if Microsoft so chose, it could sue Linux users or distributors like Novell and RedHat for patent infringement, and if it prevailed in court, could be awarded a possibly large amount of money (hence the "balance-sheet liability" part). As you know, MS believes that Novell paid it for the right to tell its customers that SUSE Linux was appropriately covered, i.e., that Novell had licensed those patents (whatever they might be) and thus was not subject to being sued. Novell may have other ideas about what they were paying for, but that's beside the point.

In a blog today, John Carroll says we should all stop bashing the Microsoft/Novell agreement because "Microsoft probably does own a few patents that intersect with technology found in Linux". Despite many calls from the community, Microsoft has not come forward with a list of claimed infringements (does this remind anybody of SCO?). So does John have insider information about these patents? No, his argument is:

What are the odds that a company that spends billions of dollars writing an operating system used by most computer users in the world does NOT own patents that are relevant to Linux? Remember that study back in 2004 that claimed to find 283 potential patent risks in the Linux kernel? That list was hardly definitive, as who knows how a judge will choose to interpret the text of a patent, and besides, that's just the kernel. Add on the entire stack of software that makes up a typical Linux distribution, and you get potential risk galore.

It's hard to argue with this, given the size of a modern operating system and the thousands of vague software patents that could, with a good lawyer, be interpreted to cover everything from cascading menus to french toast. But look at this next part. John continues, (my emphasis added)

The odds are high that most software potentially trips over a patent somewhere… Microsoft products included. I doubt Microsoft could have predicted the risk posed by the EOLAS patent, a patent that governed the ability to automatically use binary extensions in a web page.

John goes on to ask "What is Linux going to do about it?". I think the real question is, "What is Microsoft going to do about it?". Applying the logic of Ballmer and Carroll to Microsoft Vista one could say:

"What are the odds that companies like IBM, HP, and Oracle (just to name a few) that spend billions of dollars writing operating systems and other software do NOT own patents that are relevant to Vista? Add on the entire stack of software that makes up a typical Windows distribution, and you get potential risk galore."

So who is going to indemnify Windows users against all those infringements which, according to the statistics, must exist in Vista? Since Microsoft believes that that folks like Novell and Red Hat owe it money for using its innovations, then it stands to reason that Microsoft should owe others like IBM, HP, Bell Labs, Apple, and many many others for the innovations it has made its billions from. The potential "balance-sheet liability" for users of Microsoft Windows would be unprecedented! What is Microsoft going to do about it?

I'm making this point not because I seriously think Windows users are at risk of getting sued, any more than I think Linux users are at risk of getting sued. I'm making it because I think we're painting ourselves into a corner here. Who can tell what infringes what any more? Also, I wonder if we should even care. Patents were originally created to protect the little guy who invents a gizmo, tries to sell it, but sees another company come along, copy the gizmo, and make all the money selling their version. But today's application of patents to software is completely warped and twisted from that noble idea of fairness and reward for hard work.

John says that "getting rid of [software] patents is not a solution". In my opinion, that is pretty sad. I believe we're wasting our time and talents on paper problems that we invented ourselves. It's like all the obscure tax rules we have to deal with every year - a whole industry of tax accountants and lawyers and preparation software and books and classes has grown up around addressing a problem that doesn't have to exist. Billions of hours of productivity could be regained by going to a simple tax code, possibly an automatic flat tax. Likewise, billions could be saved by dumping this self-induced group nightmare of a patent system.

Countries that see what we're doing and avoid it will be at a competitive advantage. While we sit around gazing at our navels, they will be free to let developers develop, collaborate, and innovate in peace like God and Richard Stallman intended. Think about that during your next "IP due diligence" meeting. Or next year when tax time rolls around.

Ed BurnetteEd Burnette is a professional developer and author of several articles and books about computing including Hello, Android: Introducing Google's Mobile Development Platform, 2nd Edition. For disclosure of Ed's industry affiliations, click here or to view his full profile click here.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 118 Talkback(s)
Hmm
I like where you people are going..

Keith Knutsson (Read the rest)
Posted by: KKnutsson Posted on: 12/18/06 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
I agree  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 12/11/06
Signing agreements with multiple company is business as usual  sinleeh@... | 12/12/06
Making a deal with the OS community  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
How?  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 12/13/06
Well, yeah  Yagotta B. Kidding | 12/12/06
The difference is ... Microsoft is rich and Linux is poor  sinleeh@... | 12/12/06
That's what SCO thought too  bitfuzzy | 12/12/06
Major Linux vendors shield their customers too  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Yes Microsoft is rich  uno@... | 12/12/06
And get sued again  Sparhawk_z | 12/12/06
Who dares taking advantage of Microsoft?  databaseben@... | 12/12/06
Taking advantage of Microsoft  emilper | 12/12/06
Software patents like nuclear warheads  Chad_z | 12/12/06
Sometimes  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Excellent Analogy!  I am Gorby | 12/12/06
Excellent point here...  Linux User 147560 | 12/12/06
In an IP economy...  Anton Philidor | 12/12/06
Diminishing returns  Yagotta B. Kidding | 12/12/06
40% of GDP?  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Or 50% or 70% of GDP from IP.  Anton Philidor | 12/12/06
It's easy  Yagotta B. Kidding | 12/12/06
Study showing 45%  Anton Philidor | 12/13/06
Anton, you conveniently lump copyright and patents under one heading  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
Your right  maldain | 12/13/06
Patents required for software  Anton Philidor | 12/13/06
unfortunately it is not for those reasons..  xuniL_z | 12/14/06
Excellent point here... part 2 format correction...  Linux User 147560 | 12/12/06
He has spoken.  xuniL_z | 12/14/06
Howard Sarin...  Linux User 147560 | 12/12/06
True  fuzzy2k | 12/12/06
I agree too  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
See GripeLine over at Infoworld  jmusto@... | 12/12/06
Get rid of the unresponsive script.  ewodrich | 12/16/06
Spelling Nitpick  dumptux | 12/12/06
Fixed  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Balance Shmalance - Pure Irony  nottheusual1 | 12/12/06
I go one step over this.  jskline0@... | 12/12/06
Ah, the stereotypical open-sourcer opens his mouth  Confused by religion | 12/12/06
Ah, the stereotypical Microsoftie opens her mouth  dumptux | 12/12/06
they do it on their own  Monkey_MCSE | 12/12/06
And, of course, you know that on several occasions  Confused by religion | 12/12/06
was just saying  Monkey_MCSE | 12/12/06
your double standards suck.  xuniL_z | 12/14/06
Not really  Yagotta B. Kidding | 12/12/06
tis true yagotta..  Monkey_MCSE | 12/12/06
BUT, Milly, In YOUR opinion!!  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
And while you're at it Milly...  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
F/OS ?  jmusto@... | 12/12/06
Ah, the stereotypical Windows Zealot opens her mouth  Rick_K | 12/18/06
The obvious...  Randyz@... | 12/12/06
Not always obvious...  AckItsMe2 | 12/12/06
actually no..  Monkey_MCSE | 12/12/06
Apple sued Microsoft...  Anton Philidor | 12/12/06
re: The obvious...  M.R. Kennedy | 12/12/06
Stealing ideas  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
I don't think you're in the minority Ed  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
You'd be in the majority  voska | 12/13/06
Shoulders of Giants  fromthehip | 12/13/06
Please do not insult people...  Anton Philidor | 12/13/06
Taking Ideas without Recompense  21155683438664906602835604016461-Gary.S.Kearney | 12/15/06
Only one problem with you thoughts.  Rick_K | 12/18/06
human history teaches  hilcadia | 12/12/06
No, don't blame the judges  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
Do Windows users have an "undisclosed balance-sheet liability" too?  ator1940 | 12/12/06
Definately agree!!  davidtaylorjr | 12/12/06
Also see IBM vs PSI lawsuit  zarchasmpgmr | 12/12/06
Here, Here!!  kd7tfw@... | 12/12/06
Ballmer  observer58 | 12/12/06
it is actually something like  usrhlp | 12/12/06
Patent system is not Democracy  lmb@... | 12/12/06
democracy and patents  observer58 | 12/12/06
I'd say better with out  voska | 12/13/06
Ok, I'll give you that.  jskline0@... | 12/13/06
Software Patents are Still Reasonable  Jim from NoVA | 12/12/06
Software Patents Are Not The Answer  dumptux | 12/12/06
Almost nobody is advocating all software be Public Domain  Edward Meyers | 12/17/06
Windows liability, taxes  Wendell Murray | 12/12/06
Vested interests  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Stands to reason  mypl8s4u2 | 12/12/06
There is a heavy irony . . .  critic-at-arms | 12/12/06
Gimmee Patent Royalties Now  bcroner | 12/12/06
where does it all end?  ian.parker@... | 12/12/06
Yes, but...  AckItsMe2 | 12/12/06
Apple DID NOT STEAL, M$ did  galileon | 12/12/06
Accepting the reality of software patents.  Anton Philidor | 12/12/06
Never say never..  Patrick Jones | 12/12/06
Pressure to enforce IP  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
not in the EU ..  mad-man | 12/12/06
It should be acceptable  voska | 12/13/06
User Liability or Provider Liability  Freeloading | 12/12/06
Nobody (except maybe SCO) is going to ...  mwagner@... | 12/12/06
Ed, Ed, Ed, Don't you have anything better to do?  Narg | 12/12/06
Worth a Reply  TripleII | 12/12/06
Who's spreading FUD? Ed or Ballmer?  mdsmedia | 12/12/06
SOFTWARE AUTHORS  BALTHOR | 12/12/06
This is so sad.  Jim Blaine - Bellingham WA. | 12/12/06
comment on tax code  mykmlr@... | 12/12/06
[OT] Taxes thread  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/12/06
Purest FUD  bjdtis@... | 12/12/06
Has anyone read the fine print of MS/Novell?  stormkrow@... | 12/12/06
So much gibberish!  ladyemberrose | 12/12/06
Need to change the patent defence law  jmusto@... | 12/12/06
Bad meat  Yagotta B. Kidding | 12/12/06
The difference between proprietary vs open source firms  sarrison@... | 12/12/06
Patents vs. taxes  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/16/06
Fud fud fud, I am tired of the M$ fud machine...  Linux_Fanboy | 12/12/06
Subjectivity  Information_z | 12/12/06
More to life than just the operating system  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/16/06
Yes, I Have a Balance Sheet  Ole Man | 12/12/06
Many Linux using Companies and individuals also use Windows  clareJ | 12/13/06
Points Lost  TakeIT2 | 12/14/06
Ha!  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/16/06
Software Patents  Ole Man | 12/14/06
Lawyers  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 12/16/06
Step back and look at the BIG PICTURE  Old Timer 8080 | 12/15/06
$20,000 yearly fee for undeveloped patents  blaze1024 | 12/15/06
Confessions of a Patent Troll  morinville@... | 12/18/06
Hmm  KKnutsson | 12/18/06

What do you think?

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