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March 27th, 2008

Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring

Posted by Ed Burnette @ 2:43 pm

Categories: AJAX, General, Web Browsers

Tags: Web, Opera Software, Apple Safari, Web Browser, Mozilla Corp., Standards, Acid3, Ian, Channel Management, Quality

Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ringAsk Mozilla co-founder Mike Shaver what he thinks about Ian Hixie’s Acid3 test and he’ll give you an ear full. On his blog today Shaver defended the Mozilla Firefox team as they watched both Opera and Safari/WebKit apparently achieve a 100% pass rate Wednesday.

Ian’s Acid 3, unlike its predecessors, is not about establishing a baseline of useful web capabilities. It’s quite explicitly about making browser developers jump — Ian specifically sought out tests that were broken in WebKit, Opera, and Gecko, perhaps out of a twisted attempt at fairness.

A review of Hixie’s criteria, however, shows that tests were required to not crash current browser versions and be justifiable using only web standards.

Shaver also takes issue with Acid3’s use of only older well-established standards.  “I think that such a test,” he writes, “should be built on more long-term criteria than lining up the starting blocks for a developer sprint.” Acid3 doesn’t test the areas that are hard to work around, says Shaver. “If Hixie could stomach digging around in the SVG specification I wish he’d spent his time on things like filters or even colour profiles.”

Mozilla developer Rob Sayre concurred, calling Acid3 “worthless” and WebKit’s efforts to pass “shameful”:

I was looking over the spreadsheet covering Mozilla’s Acid3 failures, and it struck me that very few of the fixes would substantially improve the Web or the browser. They are bugs and they will be fixed (except maybe SMIL… wtf?), but they don’t impact authors or users at all. Looks mostly like an opportunity for grandstanding about “commitment to standards.” I think testing createNodeIterator while text nodes don’t interoperate is both misguided and hypocritical. Besides, commitment to standards is strong at Mozilla, where we don’t constantly seek to rubber stamp our own implementation.

Acid3 could have had a positive effect on the web, says Shaver, but instead it has turned into a game. Microsoft and Adobe must be “chuckling about the hundreds of developer-hours” that have gone into fixing special cases no one cares about, he says. “It could have been a lot more.”

Ed’s analysis

It’s unfortunate that Mozilla is has adopted such a sour-grapes position on Acid3. One wonders how the message would have been different had Firefox been the first to pass. I’m reminded of Microsoft’s comments on Acid2. Remember back in 2006 when Microsoft’s All Billings wrote:

We’ve written about the Acid2 test before. It is not a compliance test but is, instead, a wish list. We’ve been clear that we were not going to pass this test since we were first asked about this. The author of the test is well aware of this.

And yet in 2007 they were all too proud in announcing that IE8 had passed Acid2. Calling it “a milestone”, Dean Hachamovitch gushed:

I’m delighted to tell you that on Wednesday, December 12, Internet Explorer correctly rendered the Acid2 page in IE8 standards mode. While supporting the features tested in Acid2 is important for many reasons, it is just one of several milestones for the interoperability, standards compliance, and backwards compatibility that we’re committed to for this release.

Presumably, we’ll be treated to a similarly “delighted” announcement from Mozilla when Firefox gets around to passing Acid3.

Ed BurnetteEd Burnette is a professional developer and author of several articles and books about computing including Hello, Android: Introducing Google's Mobile Development Platform, 2nd Edition. For disclosure of Ed's industry affiliations, click here or to view his full profile click here.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 29 Talkback(s)
Your issue resolved
Adrian Kingsley-Hughes asked: "do [ACID tests] encourage standards compliance, or do they encourage developers to optimise the browsers to pass the tests?"

The obvious answer, Adrian, is "both"... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Wombatmobile Posted on: 04/21/08 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Hixie and Web Standards...  Grayson Peddie | 03/27/08
But it is broke.  clareJ | 03/31/08
Ed, ever the cynic....  techboy_z | 03/27/08
How do you determine what are the important parts?  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 03/28/08
The Important Parts...  oregonnerd13 | 03/28/08
What.... Firefox is not perfect?????  garry_k@... | 03/27/08
You're doing your customers a disservice  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 03/28/08
You could use a number of different browsers ...  mark@... | 03/28/08
Here's the issue I have with ACID tests ...  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 03/27/08
I had exactly the same thought ...  mark@... | 03/28/08
Tests encourage both  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 03/28/08
Your issue resolved  Wombatmobile | 04/21/08
Methinks they protest too much  John L. Ries | 03/27/08
Yes, but not exactly  Mitch 74 | 03/28/08
I'll agree on CSS3  John L. Ries | 03/28/08
RE: Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring  blu_z | 03/27/08
RE: Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring  UDHSS | 03/28/08
There's a reason for that  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 03/28/08
RE: Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring  Uncle Caleb | 03/28/08
Paul Watson, bravo.  Todd_Ehlers | 03/29/08
Pixel-perfect rendering  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 04/03/08
RE: Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring  Mudoch | 03/28/08
There are flaws in the test.  Raymond Danner | 03/28/08
RE: Mozilla blasts Acid3 as Safari and Opera grab the brass ring  jmd8421r | 03/28/08
The average user could care less about Acid3 tests  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 03/28/08
This is not what I expected to hear from Mozilla  John Musbach | 04/01/08
It would have been better if...  Ed BurnetteZDNet Moderator | 04/03/08
Minefield 3.0pre vs. Opera 9.50b  RamMan | 04/18/08
Standard standards please, not sub-standards  Wombatmobile | 04/21/08

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