On The Insider: Britney's Bikini-Clad Top 10
BNET Business Network:
BNET
TechRepublic
ZDNet

April 19th, 2006

Does the OpenDocument religion make sense?

Posted by George Ou @ 12:21 pm

Categories: Infrastructure

Tags:

With news that the OASIS ODF (Open Document Format) is picking up steam, I had an opportunity to chat with Sun Microsystems and their StarOffice engineers in Germany this morning.  The purpose of the meeting was to discuss ODF, OpenOffice.org and StarOffice performance (or lack thereof).  Last year when I wrote a series of blogs comparing the performance of OpenOffice.org to Microsoft Office, it got an exceptional amount of attention and thousands of comments across the Internet and in our own talkback forums.  Why even mess with OpenDocument when it’s such a huge liability in performance and offers no advantage in competing with Microsoft? The controversy even made it to FOXNews when James Prendergast suggested that Massachusetts should forget about the ODF and quoted me saying that it was 100 times slower than Microsoft’s Office format.

Much of the feedback on Slashdot and my talkback were negative and it either accused me of botching the tests or that the numbers were insignificant.  On the other hand, I also had many people email me that the results were consistent with their own experience.  But when I asked Sun’s engineers point blank if they had verified my numbers, they stated that they do not dispute the numbers and immediately proceeded to explain why it was slower than Microsoft’s format.  The reason Sun explained was that Sun has to use the open standards OASIS compressed XML format while Microsoft used its own proprietary binary file format which was essentially a very efficient memory dump that didn’t require a lot of CPU cycles to process (approximately 95 times more cycles based on my tests).  But then I pointed out that even when I tested Microsoft Office with its own 2003 XML format plus the time it took to compress the data, it was still approximately 5 times faster than OpenOffice.org.  Sun’s engineers explained that this was due to the fact that ODF took longer to process than Microsoft’s XML format.  At this point in the conversation, they’ve managed to convince me that the OpenDocument format was 5 to 100 times less efficient.

I then asked why it took so much more memory to load OpenOffice.org and StarOffice in comparison to Microsoft Office and they explained that Microsoft took advantage of functionality in the Operating System while OpenOffice.org and StarOffice had to load additional cross-platform libraries.  Aside from the fact that the 90% of computer users in the world who use Windows don’t care about why something is a memory hog but only that it is, this still didn’t explain why memory consumption went through the roof (230 for Calc 2.0 and 90 MB for Excel 2003) when the exact same 16-sheet spreadsheet was loaded.  Memory allocation for a loaded data file shouldn’t have anything to do with the additional cross-platform libraries but Sun couldn’t give me an immediate answer so they’ve promised to email me a response on this particular issue.

In my opinion, the whole file format controversy is an artificial one and it’s a non-issue.  The main argument for an OpenDocument format is based on the premise that Microsoft somehow leverages their proprietary Office file format to bully the competition by denying them fair access to the file format to maintain their dominance in Office suites.  But this is argument is fundamentally flawed because the existing Microsoft Office binary formats are effectively the de facto standard and are effectively open to anyone.  The Microsoft Office formats are open in the sense that every Microsoft Office competitor from StarOffice to OpenOffice.org to Word Perfect to ThinkFree Office has reverse engineered the Microsoft Office format and uses it freely yet they’ve never been sued by Microsoft for doing so.  OpenOffice.org Calc is already substantially faster with Microsoft’s binary format than its own native ODF format and it leads one to wonder why anyone would want to use something that’s less efficient when something better already exists.

Some would argue that there is a need to go to an XML format is better for long term archival because Microsoft’s format may not be readable 10 years from now, but I’m able to open up obscure document formats from more than 10 years ago using readily available file converters and I really doubt that Microsoft Office will go away in 10 years.  Others would argue that the file format specifications must be officially open but that’s exactly what Microsoft has done with their new XML format for Office 12.  Not only is the new Microsoft XML format open, but they’ve given assurances that they would not sue over it but the OpenDocument crowd still isn’t satisfied because they want a say in how Microsoft’s XML specification is designed.  But given how bloated and inefficient the OASIS OpenDocument format is, do you really want the same committee that created ODF to have a say in Microsoft’s format?  If Sun or any other company is serious about creating a Microsoft Office competitor, they should spend less time debating this OpenDocument nonsense and compete on merit by improving CPU and memory handling among other things.  Why even mess with OpenDocument when it’s such a huge liability in performance and offers no advantage in competing with Microsoft?  Stick with Microsoft’s lean binary format but if you must have XML, use Microsoft’s open XML format since it’s still much faster than ODF.

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 324 Talkback(s)
I can think of three very important reasons to use OOo
1. Binary files, if even a small part is corrupted, are almost impossible to recover. This is a bad thing for governments and businesses, who often bear responsibility for storage and retrieval of d... (Read the rest)
Posted by: heres_johnny Posted on: 04/23/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Well said, except...  Anton Philidor | 04/19/06
Except what?  georgeou | 04/19/06
yawn  barsteward | 04/19/06
Not a disagreement...  Anton Philidor | 04/19/06
And that would be a rhetorical question happy  georgeou | 04/19/06
I don't think Microsoft is laughing...  Anton Philidor | 04/19/06
Nah, wouldn't have changed anything  georgeou | 04/19/06
File Formats Vs. Applications  DannyO_0x98 | 04/20/06
Good reasons abound  diogenius | 05/14/06
Please explain  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Dang it George...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
Wow  Shelendrea | 04/19/06
Shills think alike!  Roger Ramjet | 04/20/06
By all means, George  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
That's false though  georgeou | 04/19/06
Sure George  Edward Meyers | 04/19/06
Give me an example  georgeou | 04/19/06
Let me check with my boss  bidemytime | 04/20/06
Backwards complexibility  pkr@... | 04/20/06
Show me one!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
Don, Don, Don...  #_z | 05/04/06
Don't Generalize  ZappBrannigan | 04/20/06
But his primary point remains  Michael Kelly | 04/19/06
MS Office is the most widely used format, not ODF  georgeou | 04/19/06
Start x before engaging y  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Universally compatible? ROFLMAO!  Tsu Dho Nimh | 04/20/06
No real macro virus threat on OOo, either  diogenius | 05/14/06
Not completely...  Patrick Jones | 04/19/06
If the MS converter works  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
But so what about memory dumps?  georgeou | 04/19/06
You forget one of the basics  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
So me a real human that reads XML  georgeou | 04/19/06
Show me a real human that reads XML  georgeou | 04/19/06
Raises hand  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
So we all need to suffer then?  georgeou | 04/19/06
Which hurts more?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
I tend to do  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
So that justifies making the rest of us suffer?  georgeou | 04/19/06
Nope  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
When you're an architect, you weigh the needs of the customer  georgeou | 04/19/06
If i where catering to consumers yess  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
Think time to market  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Enterprises don't give a damn about ODF  georgeou | 04/19/06
They really care  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/20/06
You gotta be kidding!  jdsal989 | 04/19/06
You missed the point period  georgeou | 04/19/06
You're an idiot  jdsal989 | 04/19/06
jdsal989...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
tech expert? what a joke!  Scott W | 04/28/06
I do  Patrick Jones | 04/19/06
And so  Real World | 04/20/06
Imagine this (if you can)  bobjones68@... | 04/20/06
The right tool for the job  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Sounds like many other things in life.  nucrash | 04/20/06
You're trusting _whose_ XML tokenisation?  diogenius | 05/14/06
Man guys, don't waste time arguing with the Dan Quail of reporters.  DonnieBoy | 04/29/06
I can see why  voska | 04/19/06
In gold?  georgeou | 04/19/06
George...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
Only on the read end  georgeou | 04/19/06
PDF isn't that slow?  ju1ce | 04/19/06
Engineering is always looking for better solutions  georgeou | 04/19/06
You think?  ju1ce | 04/20/06
I have another one...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
So When Is MS Going  Edward Meyers | 04/19/06
The application nor the OS has anyuthing to do with  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
ODF Is A Format  Edward Meyers | 04/19/06
I got another one...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
I got another... Damn it! When will it stop!  ju1ce | 04/19/06
Those are both binary formats  georgeou | 04/19/06
What's my point?  ju1ce | 04/20/06
Both are binary  Spacely Spacerockets | 04/20/06
Not what the TPC says  georgeou | 04/19/06
Apples and Nokias  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Don't be silly  georgeou | 04/19/06
Make up your mind, George  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
Read the whole thread, then you'll understand  georgeou | 04/19/06
Dejavu  nizuse | 04/19/06
Slower is relative  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/19/06
C'mon  georgeou | 04/19/06
Believe what you will  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/20/06
Converters? Where are they George?  Tsu Dho Nimh | 04/20/06
Do the maths please  pkr@... | 04/20/06
THEY HAVE BEEN VERIFIED BY SUN!  georgeou | 04/20/06
Outta this world  pkrdk | 04/22/06
But the same data opens in 2 second in Excel  georgeou | 04/22/06
Slow is relative  voska | 04/21/06
and they still will  Scott W | 04/28/06
The first problem...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
They should really just use binary XML by default for load save  stevey_d | 04/19/06
Functionality  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
I think we should have Murphy make one up called...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
'make one up' is the key word  georgeou | 04/19/06
Really George...  ju1ce | 04/19/06
Funny, I was going to say the same about you.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
Here here  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
what about...  Scott W | 04/28/06
Yes it is closed  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
the real reason  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
There's OEM plus T&S editions  georgeou | 04/19/06
better, but not free.  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
My time is not free  georgeou | 04/19/06
a new test?  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
It's just my opinion, but...  zkiwi | 04/19/06
me too..  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
I'd like to see that, too!  jdsal989 | 04/19/06
see below  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
Did you miss his point about people scraping by?  zkiwi | 04/19/06
People scraping by copy MS Office  georgeou | 04/19/06
they do.  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
that's measuring with two measures  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
mm... condoning piracy now??????  barsteward | 04/19/06
It's always been my position  georgeou | 04/19/06
Hypocracy rules George  barsteward | 04/19/06
Oh but it is fair  georgeou | 04/19/06
There's a cheap version of Office...  Anton Philidor | 04/19/06
We already had a long discussion on this Anton  georgeou | 04/19/06
Other reason for Microsoft to be lenient...  Anton Philidor | 04/19/06
Anton and George - hypocrites of greatest kind  barsteward | 04/20/06
MS office slow?  stevey_d | 04/19/06
So your point is OO is not mature.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
Well...  zkiwi | 04/19/06
No, Sun said that, not me  georgeou | 04/19/06
George, I'm glad you're affluent  ebrke | 04/20/06
How about $100 for Office?  Anton Philidor | 04/20/06
Remember that when MSO trashes a large document  diogenius | 05/14/06
Isn't that hearsay?  georgeou | 05/25/06
Why Bother  LazLong | 04/19/06
What's sad is that MS Office works better with Crossoover  georgeou | 04/19/06
You sure seem to have a lot of extra time...  dragosani | 04/20/06
Hmmm more maths to be done  pkr@... | 04/20/06
Legally licensed to use though?  tbuccelli | 04/21/06
Reasons why i think there should be ODF  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
Responses  georgeou | 04/19/06
It's a shame  jdsal989 | 04/19/06
Right, and you do?  georgeou | 04/19/06
responses  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
Responses  georgeou | 04/19/06
Geroge the troll?  Fred Fredrickson | 04/19/06
Some Responses  tombalablomba | 04/19/06
You have some legitimate questions and I will ask Microsoft  georgeou | 04/19/06
Let's agree upon this  tombalablomba | 04/20/06
Hmm, Brian Jones might disagree with point #1...  Scrat | 04/20/06
Hey thanks, I'll see if he wants to (or can) comment  georgeou | 04/20/06
Old news  Anti_Zealot | 04/20/06
FYI  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/20/06
Universal format  Scott W | 05/01/06
Let's stop and correct something here  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
Beyond rediculous  mosborne | 04/20/06
Widespread is not the same as universal  RudyTome2 | 04/20/06
My respones to yours  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
So...  zkiwi | 04/19/06
Good point, that was Sun's response  georgeou | 04/19/06
Well, ok  zkiwi | 04/19/06
Don't go changing the subject  georgeou | 04/19/06
Huh?  zkiwi | 04/19/06
MS Office runs better in Linux than OpenOffice.org on Linux  georgeou | 04/19/06
And also...  zkiwi | 04/19/06
Again, you make some big and wrong assumptions  georgeou | 04/19/06
This just sounds like doublespeak  zkiwi | 04/19/06
Now you're just starting being argumentative for no good reason.  georgeou | 04/20/06
Because Office started on Mac  Fred Fredrickson | 04/19/06
I think you made an error  georgeou | 04/19/06
Strange I also had Office for Mac in '87~89  LazLong | 04/20/06
Not me.  Fred Fredrickson | 04/20/06
This is much better informed than the original article  stevey_d | 04/19/06
Hold on now  georgeou | 04/19/06
lousy format..  stevey_d | 04/20/06
Why ODF doesn't matter.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
bad argument  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
It isn't an argument, it's just the way it is.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
I think you need to look harder then  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
That is your choice  Patrick Jones | 04/19/06
Why YOU don't matter  LinuxIzTehPwn | 04/20/06
***Warning*** Zealotry detected  Scrat | 04/21/06
Why ODF does matter.  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
my quick real word test  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
oops, should be real "world" test  lostarchitect | 04/19/06
The main issues are user lock in and control  palmwarrior | 04/19/06
Baloney!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 04/19/06
Are you incapable of replying to the right message?  Fred Fredrickson | 04/19/06
That's the religion thing  eb276 | 04/19/06
Please find me the hardware that's 100 times faster  georgeou | 04/20/06
George, it was nice that you tried OpenOffice.  palmwarrior | 04/20/06
You completely missed the point then  georgeou | 04/20/06
You're getting way too much free work out of me...  palmwarrior | 04/20/06
Why Netscape failed  Arthas | 04/21/06
ODF articles moot?  just_a_guy | 04/19/06
I'm just offering a reality check.  georgeou | 04/19/06
Reality check let me laugh  toxicfreak | 04/20/06
If reality bites toxic, look out for approaching dentures...  Scrat | 04/21/06
scrat you bring nice idea but  toxicfreak | 04/21/06
Not my reality  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
There are many perspectives ...  mwagner@... | 04/20/06
But I think that's the point  georgeou | 04/20/06
can't trust Microsoft  Eduardo_z | 04/19/06
They've given legal assurances with the new Office XML format  georgeou | 04/19/06
sorru MR Ou  toxicfreak | 04/20/06
It's not even about trust of suing...  ju1ce | 04/20/06
NONSENSE  mwagner@... | 04/20/06
Read the fine print  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/20/06
It seems to me...  JDThompson | 04/19/06
Here's why  georgeou | 04/19/06
Why bother with it [ODF]?  JDThompson | 04/19/06
They can't, at least not with this version  georgeou | 04/19/06
They couldn't with the old versions  Yagotta B. Kidding | 04/20/06
damn.. you just killed that thread....  barsteward | 04/20/06
Correct phrasing  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
That would be a valid argument if...  nucrash | 04/20/06
This OU clown obfuscates the argument  j.m.galvin | 04/19/06
Try some argument  TonyMcS | 04/19/06
Punctionation?  georgeou | 04/19/06
Spelling  TonyMcS | 04/19/06
re: try some arguement  barsteward | 04/20/06
Let the users decide!  nomorems | 04/19/06
The users have decided  georgeou | 04/19/06
And one picked ODF, so give it a rest (nt)  Fred Fredrickson | 04/19/06
In your world, do pigs fly?  jeff_knx | 04/20/06
He's going under the assumption...  ju1ce | 04/20/06
Look again  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
ODF  tracy anne | 04/19/06
Why I use OOo  CobraA1 | 04/19/06
Is Data (format) Slow?  LazLong | 04/19/06
Best Georgism ever  Richard Flude | 04/19/06
Microsoft Office binary formats  stevey_d | 04/20/06
Oh, you too have noticed the MS compatibility flaw  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
In a word, no  jorwell | 04/20/06
Never happy jorwell  Roger Ramjet | 04/20/06
On the contrary  jorwell | 04/20/06
OO clear winner on price for avg user  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
Or to put it another way  jorwell | 04/25/06
Please explain  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
Since when  Roger Ramjet | 04/20/06
George in all seriousness just how big a stipen does MS  Laff | 04/20/06
I wonder how he'll spin this one...  chemist109 | 04/20/06
George won't respond (or now maybe he will)  nizuse | 04/20/06
Dumb questions  georgeou | 04/22/06
ODF should be like IGES is for CAD  zmud | 04/20/06
Couldn't have said it better myself.  IndianaTux | 05/09/06
This is not journalism  not of this world | 04/20/06
This is journalism  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
George, you are dizzy.....  linux_for_me | 04/20/06
George, you should be very careful...  bidemytime | 04/20/06
Media Bias at its Worst  D. T. Schmitz | 04/20/06
For this  tombalablomba | 04/20/06
Ou gives you half the story - MSFT's half  Chad_z | 04/20/06
casting aspersions  dotkayk@... | 04/20/06
How clueless can you be.  hulse_kevin | 04/20/06
You got it EXACTLY RIGHT !  zara994x | 04/25/06
Good job getting hits with flamebait, George Ou  jeff_knx | 04/20/06
Difference between zealot (you) and non zealots (George)  NonZealot | 04/20/06
Chastising for flamebait, not for using MS  jeff_knx | 04/20/06
So Sun is lying about 100 x slower too?  georgeou | 04/20/06
I love this...  ju1ce | 04/20/06
No, smaller sheets don't magically mean they're faster  georgeou | 04/20/06
Maybe you need a different system then  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
Actually let get facts straight here  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
Maybe non zealot but definite idiot  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
I have to agree, George!  mwagner@... | 04/20/06
NO - you need Read/Write  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
I have a fast computer - ODF is no problem  WiredGuy | 04/20/06
You haven't opened up a 200 meg file every 10 minutes yet (NT)  ju1ce | 04/20/06
I'm glad you have a Sh*t hot computer.  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
I don't think it would help  Lazarus777 | 05/02/06
What about the Microsoft Religion?  Rick_K | 04/20/06
George is neutral remember? wink (NT)  ju1ce | 04/20/06
LMFAO  Rick_K | 04/20/06
Great comparison.  nizuse | 04/20/06
Boring...  tero_t_vaananen@... | 04/20/06
Duh gee george.. It's because ZDNet pays per blog.  ju1ce | 04/20/06
No, I'm full time staff  georgeou | 04/20/06
Oh.. well in that case...  ju1ce | 04/20/06
aaah the reason for troll blogs  barsteward | 04/20/06
Nothing has changed  georgeou | 04/20/06
how-to articles  stevey_d | 04/20/06
Great feedback!  georgeou | 04/20/06
Yes, we need a open document standard designed by Independent global group  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
Market is now deciding in favor of ODF, now that it's out and in the news .  jeff_knx | 04/20/06
What real difference does it make?  peterlwu@... | 04/20/06
$1000? That won't buy you 100 times the CPU power  georgeou | 04/20/06
Not even 150k would do it either... (NT)  ju1ce | 04/20/06
5 -100 times less efficient???  zara994x | 04/20/06
Would you like me to spell that out for you?  georgeou | 04/21/06
Numbers  zara994x | 04/21/06
George, perhaps you are so fast at entering data  Update victim | 04/26/06
did it occur to you  zzz1234567890 | 04/28/06
Cherry picking  Blog Wasteland | 05/26/06
Margin of error  solri | 04/21/06
margin  zara994x | 04/21/06
death of office  Stan_Krute | 04/20/06
STATMAN created his own stat - again. That's dirty George.  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
And you can speak for Sun?  georgeou | 04/20/06
STATMAN created his own stat - again. That's dirty George. Again AgainAgain  zdnet reader | 04/20/06
Hurry Up George - snowbase thinning  zdnet reader | 04/21/06
MONEY!!!!  plon | 04/21/06
Framing  swhiser | 04/21/06
Fun  jeff_knx | 04/21/06
GPL M$ XML  zara994x | 04/21/06
Non Sequiturs  zara994x | 04/21/06
amused  Bite Me_Ax_Moron | 04/22/06
editor  Bite Me_Ax_Moron | 04/22/06
Speed!  neutro511@... | 04/23/06
ODF is dead with no ROI  theoldman59 | 04/24/06
why is it all or nothing with everyone?  CMKRNL | 04/26/06
Here is some ROI for you  Lazarus777 | 05/03/06
Do u ever think before u type George ?  zara994x | 04/24/06
WordPerfect, or was that Perfect Words?  zdnet reader | 04/24/06
IN Essence ..George and M$ Embrace ODF  zara994x | 04/26/06
Why ODF?  Update victim | 04/26/06
The Religion of ODF George HAS It..  zara994x | 04/26/06
George, let the market to decide which is the best word processor.  plon | 04/27/06
The "Religion" = Open Standards + OpenSource  zara994x | 04/28/06
It is not about which is better  tero_t_vaananen@... | 05/04/06
Disinformation.  plons1 | 05/05/06
Disinformation.  plons1 | 05/05/06
Yes it does...Sorry George  linux_for_me | 05/05/06
Step out of the "Office"  Robert Crocker | 05/05/06
Reasons to use ODF  georgep_z | 05/05/06
Yeah, why should you use standards anyway?  stmueller | 05/08/06
Binary OpenDoc solves your problem ??  hcmarchezi@... | 05/09/06
I hope they pay you lots of money....  merlin747 | 05/10/06
What if MS-Office simply doesn't do the job?  diogenius | 05/14/06
No names George?  Blog Wasteland | 05/26/06
I can think of three very important reasons to use OOo  heres_johnny | 04/23/07

What do you think?

SponsoredWhite Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

Click Here
advertisement

Recent Entries

Top Rated

    advertisement

    Archives

    ZDNet Blogs

    White Papers, Webcasts, and Downloads

    SmartPlanet

    Click Here