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February 28th, 2007

Beware of hard-coding issues in Vista user folders

Posted by George Ou @ 3:40 am

Categories: Desktop, Vista

Tags:

In Focus » See more posts on: Vista

Microsoft has added the ability to move user folders such as the Desktop, Favorites, Contacts, and other user-specific data in Windows Vista with simple drag-and-drop operations.  While this is certainly an improvement over Windows XP where you could relocate "My Documents" (Note that Microsoft has wised up and dropped My from the naming conventions) to a different physical or logical hard drive partition, it still doesn't address the fundamental issue Microsoft's bad decision to put user data in the same volume as the operating system.

I spoke out about this last summer when I wrote "Why Microsoft should put user data in a separate volume" and actually had a long conversation with the now-retired Jim Allchin and even longer conversations with his team of engineers.  A lot of technology writers and readers praised for speaking out on that issue and wanted to know where Microsoft stood on this issue and I'm sad to inform you that their answer was NO because the PC Makers and OEMs didn't want to confuse users with an additional partition.  It's clear that Microsoft acknowledges the need to put data in its own partition because they've added new features to make it easier to relocate user folders, but it's obviously not a clean or complete solution.  Take a look at the screen capture below:

As you can see, everything except the AppData folder was moved but you also notice something weird about a duplicate Contacts folder.  It turns out that this isn't the only time you'll see duplicate folders and it's possible to see this on other folders like Saved Games as well.  If I delete the Contacts folder in the C: Users folder, it recreates itself as soon as I open Windows Live Messenger.  It's apparent that Live Messenger has something hard-coded to put data in that folder and even go as far as creating a folder if it doesn't find one there.  What it's suppose to do is use a symbolic link to the current user's contacts folder and put it where ever I dragged that folder which in this case is D: George (Note that backslashes are suppressed by this blog site so I've omitted it).  So it's clear if Microsoft will make this kind of hard-coding mistake, others will probably do the same thing so clearly this isn't a clean solution.

This isn't the only problem if you choose to relocate your user folders, fellow blogger Justin James pointed out to me that search indexing is another problem.  Take the following screen capture for instance:

Look at the Users folder and look under George.  What happened to all my user folders like Documents, Contacts, Links, Pictures, etc?  It appears that Indexing also uses hard-coding rather than the logical structure that picks up my user-specific folders on my D drive or where ever I move it.  I correct this by adding volume D to my indexing options but again that's a step that I shouldn't have to take.

Oh and what about that obscure AppData folder which is the place that applications like to dump all sorts of critical data like your Outlook data files and addresses?  I've personally been bitten where I forgot to copy that and lost my entire outlook folder and I know too many other people who did the same thing and lost all their Outlook or Outlook Express data.  I've since avoided that mistake by relocating my Outlook data to a folder called "Outlook" under the Documents folder.  Now why doesn't Microsoft do this by default?  I asked them and it turns out that since Microsoft uses roaming profiles internally, they don't want to have to replicate the entire Outlook folder over to the server that stores all the roaming profiles.  It would seem to me that Microsoft could simply code in an exception on roaming to exclude Outlook PST files.  But even after I manually relocated the PST files to my old Outlook data (which was no easy task since Outlook 2007 won't let you delete the file), there's still a bunch of other user-specific AppData stuff that I'd rather not have on the C drive.

So is there a way to move the entire C: Users folder to another drive?  Sure, only if you go through some obscure unattended Windows Vista installation procedure and it can't be done after the OS is installed.  I pleaded with Microsoft to at least let users change the default location during the installation of Vista or at least come up with a User folder relocator that moves the entire data for all current and future users, but I didn't have much luck and I was told that there will be easy drag-and-drop ways of moving things though that has to be done manually on a per-user basis.  But as you can see by the quirks above, reality isn't so simple is it and it's just another fine mess.  As the old saying goes, I told you so Microsoft.

Should Microsoft have listened and put User folder on separate partition?

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George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 185 Talkback(s)
How to Move Vista USER folder to another drive
How to move the special folders in Windows Vista
? Ramesh Srinivasan http://www.winhelponline.com/articles... (Read the rest)
Posted by: mrgcav Posted on: 07/18/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Did they test Vista?  bportlock | 02/28/07
Give them a break  bmgoodman | 02/28/07
Definition of a Windows User:  OButterball | 02/28/07
OButterball = 0 intelligence  harrisharris | 02/28/07
That  Jack-Booted EULA | 02/28/07
I run Mac  nucrash | 02/28/07
Macs are great!  xuniL_z | 02/28/07
One point  zkiwi | 02/28/07
What do YOU do with your computer?  msalzberg | 03/01/07
"There is no way....  msalzberg | 02/28/07
Re: Moronic  harrisharris | 03/01/07
RE: Re: Moronic  msalzberg | 03/01/07
And you'll notice...  msalzberg | 03/02/07
The smooth runner.  harrisharris | 03/02/07
That's funny  xuniL_z | 02/28/07
I'll have to hand it to you  Ole Man | 02/28/07
that IS funny!!  mdsmedia | 02/28/07
and to think..  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 02/28/07
Why stop there?  StevoCJ | 03/02/07
No way it could be worse than ME  nucrash | 02/28/07
re: Did they test Vista?  deaf_e_kate | 02/28/07
i agree  usrhlp | 03/02/07
It's nice to know that  msolgeek | 02/28/07
I use Outlook 2007 with a POP3 server without Exchange and ...  ShadeTree | 02/28/07
PST Size?  bmgoodman | 02/28/07
PST Size?  WhoCare$ | 02/28/07
The max size for modern PST files is...  BitTwiddler | 02/28/07
Correction...  Confused by religion | 02/28/07
Mine is over 4 gigs...  Confused by religion | 02/28/07
Our support team won't allow above 2GB  deaf_e_kate | 02/28/07
Doesn't happen with unicode format  Confused by religion | 02/28/07
not PSTs on the network  deaf_e_kate | 03/01/07
Outlook on XML would be a bigger sin  georgeou | 02/28/07
Could be simpler than that  BobF_z | 02/28/07
This appears to be an application issue.  ye | 02/28/07
Yes and no  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Home users probably don't care. I don't.  ye | 02/28/07
you don't ?  culebra | 02/28/07
Yes, I need more...what you've given isn't compelling.  ye | 02/28/07
Different strokes...  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Agreed...no problem with someone's preference.  ye | 02/28/07
YE: Why restore twice?  Spoon Jabber | 02/28/07
ok  culebra | 02/28/07
I think you're right  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Ubuntu has separate partitions....  mdsmedia | 02/28/07
Pros and cons  voska | 03/01/07
you are absolutely right about that one  zzz1234567890 | 02/28/07
More rubberbands...  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
Yes, but...  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Profile should be created at run time  ye | 02/28/07
It's more then profile, it's also data  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
Again you do it at run time.  ye | 02/28/07
So you are saying:  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
What data needs installation at install time?  ye | 02/28/07
Courseware, tutorial data, assessment data.  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
If it's not user specific then it should go into...  ye | 02/28/07
Yeah, so what?  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Because they are logged in as ADMIN  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
What kind of app is this?  RocketEater | 02/28/07
The appliation is educational  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
The installer should install all of the courses...  ye | 02/28/07
Shared Data Location  jb123 | 02/28/07
I agree  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
Hey Ye,  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
It's not my "logic".  ye | 02/28/07
That's not right, it's easier than Mac  georgeou | 02/28/07
I would rather be prompted for a password  nucrash | 02/28/07
If JoeUser is the owner of the PC  georgeou | 02/28/07
George,  LittleGuy | 03/01/07
Extremely ignorant response  georgeou | 03/02/07
WOW,  LittleGuy | 03/02/07
This is a royal pain  srwhite | 02/28/07
Rock and Hard place for coders  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/28/07
Schizo  Taz_z | 02/28/07
I'll check with MS on this  georgeou | 02/28/07
Nope, it just requires a bit of thought  Fred Fredrickson | 02/28/07
I think you missed what I said  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/01/07
This is a major issue...  BitTwiddler | 02/28/07
Why is everyone so against the default location?  ye | 02/28/07
Because that's how an OS is supposed to work  jayconverse | 02/28/07
That doesn't answer the question.  ye | 02/28/07
What are you talking about?  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Other OSes don't care about partitions  Mitch 74 | 02/28/07
Fedora does follow POSIX  GrimmReaperSound | 02/28/07
Yep!  UserLand | 02/28/07
Actually, it's pretty simple  maldain | 02/28/07
Doesn't make sense.  ye | 02/28/07
Actually it does, as maildain said  NetArch. | 02/28/07
Little impact.  ye | 02/28/07
Compelling is in the eye of the beholder  NetArch. | 02/28/07
Not so little  TripleII | 02/28/07
There are few good reasons I can think of  voska | 03/01/07
I listed almost 10 points on the blog I pointed to from last summer  georgeou | 02/28/07
The only reason that matters  Patrick Jones | 02/28/07
Roaming profiles?  RocketEater | 02/28/07
What about laptops and mobile users?  georgeou | 02/28/07
Ours do  Patrick Jones | 02/28/07
This has not been a problem for me and I use a laptop.  B.O.F.H. | 02/28/07
That's fine, but still doesn't address my point  georgeou | 02/28/07
That wasn't my point either  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Microsoft deliberately left Outlook and OE out of roaming  georgeou | 02/28/07
Personally, I split data from system and apps.  B.O.F.H. | 02/28/07
Was ever thus!  wilko | 02/28/07
Search indexing  hornerea | 02/28/07
Why not?  rpmyers1 | 02/28/07
Agreed  RocketEater | 02/28/07
Of course it is, it's SUPPOSE to use the symbolic location  georgeou | 02/28/07
Out-of-Control  bmgoodman | 03/01/07
Technically speaking...  rickeldarwish@... | 02/28/07
trash bin should not be a problem  culebra | 02/28/07
Not sure about symbolic trash  georgeou | 02/28/07
Location of data folders  jhavins@... | 02/28/07
Different drive better, but partition is ok  georgeou | 02/28/07
Separate partition is not always good  Patanjali | 02/28/07
OS design issue, in addition to Apps  culebra | 02/28/07
Forget MS placement of folders  nnigam | 02/28/07
On Macintosh their have alwasy been API calls  LittleGuy | 02/28/07
Ditto for Windows  rpmyers1 | 02/28/07
What are you talking about?  An_Axe_to_Grind | 02/28/07
It is actually possible now  dan@... | 02/28/07
you've tested this in Vista?  impala_sc | 02/28/07
what's the obscure method?  impala_sc | 02/28/07
I've got a different obscure method that I'll be doing an article on next  georgeou | 02/28/07
profilesdir=  bmgoodman | 03/01/07
Not sure what you're referring to  georgeou | 03/01/07
Interesting  bmgoodman | 03/02/07
in XP using linkd.exe; winnt.sif, reg hack, etc.  impala_sc | 03/06/07
This is why...  John L. Ries | 02/28/07
It's not easy to move unless you use unattended scripts  georgeou | 02/28/07
Still Got XP: Use Microsoft's TweakUI to set where you want My Documents  rh0 | 02/28/07
You don't even need TweakUI  RocketEater | 02/28/07
We're not talking about Documents here  georgeou | 02/28/07
To the guy who would rather write with feather and ink  harrisharris | 03/01/07
I've been saying and doing this all along...  shadowhawq | 02/28/07
I don't think so  dragosani | 02/28/07
ZDNet confused?  Narg | 02/28/07
Look at the new bugs that's popped up  georgeou | 02/28/07
scott a *******?  MIS Master | 02/28/07
Hi Scott  tmccarty8 | 03/16/07
Lab Volt  Spoon Jabber | 02/28/07
Oops, was reply to LittleGuy , Courseware... (NT)  Spoon Jabber | 02/28/07
You are assuming server install  LittleGuy | 03/01/07
That's what I don't understand  Spoon Jabber | 03/02/07
The data is for instructors not students.  LittleGuy | 03/02/07
You are assuming  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/28/07
You're assuming I understand what you're talking about  georgeou | 02/28/07
I think he means security  Michael Kelly | 02/28/07
If that's the case, you can EFS the drive  georgeou | 02/28/07
My bad George  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/01/07
Beware of hard-coding issues in ZDnet replies.  harrisharris | 03/01/07
Fantastic  dahlenu | 02/28/07
Simple Answer  Ole Man | 02/28/07
Simple solution  apoluo | 02/28/07
What about laptop users?  georgeou | 02/28/07
They were worried about confusing users?  jhughs | 02/28/07
Never Used These Folders  blackfalconsoftware@... | 02/28/07
So you hard code to the C drive?!?!?!!??!!  georgeou | 02/28/07
2 possible options  deaf_e_kate | 02/28/07
It's a real bad idea to not conform to standards  georgeou | 02/28/07
re: It's a real bad idea to not conform to standards  deaf_e_kate | 03/01/07
No, allow the user to choose  voska | 03/01/07
What Bull. MS is the one who sent a letter to OEMs  jjon2121 | 02/28/07
Ahem...  RocketEater | 02/28/07
You can google tons of hits on these subjects.  jjon2121 | 02/28/07
Sorry, but...  RocketEater | 03/01/07
Hugh?  fordfairlane | 02/28/07
You got the paragraphs mixed up  jjon2121 | 02/28/07
Court's Finding of Facts  I. Kidya Knott | 03/01/07
You're right, but...  mistywindow | 02/28/07
HEY BILLYBOY HAHAHAHAHADUH  Sowhatsupyouranus@... | 02/28/07
Windows system rots after a year or two..  tana99 | 02/28/07
Please proofread.  solar_satellite | 02/28/07
SOP for us  fordfairlane | 02/28/07
The real problem here...  Punchey | 03/01/07
IT Dept folks in charge of backups WILL care  sjbjava | 03/01/07
Most of the time you don't need to backup and restore data  georgeou | 03/01/07
So why are people here against it?  NetArch. | 03/01/07
I've used that partition mounting trick before happy  georgeou | 03/01/07
Please include XP in the solution  Ipsenol | 03/02/07
a solution for XP  impala_sc | 03/06/07
Even worse if you rename a folder with pictures  takeos | 03/01/07
Actually, George, you yourself made it harder ...  mwagner@... | 03/02/07
just use sym links  juser_bogus | 03/02/07
Do they pay you?  someonewhoknows | 03/06/07
How to Move Vista USER folder to another drive  mrgcav | 07/18/07

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