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March 2nd, 2007

Is AMD being hypocritical about benchmark ethics?

Posted by George Ou @ 12:35 am

Categories: AMD, Hardware, Intel, News, Servers

Tags: Quad-core, Advanced Micro Devices Inc., CPU, Ethics, Intel Corp., George Ou

In Focus » See more posts on: Benchmarks, Benchmarks

On Tuesday 2/27/2006, AMD’s chief sales and marketing officer Henri Richard swung hard at Intel in front of the media with complaints of unethical usage of outdated benchmarking standards such as SPECint_2000.

Note that SPECint_2000 wasn’t officially retired until last week on Feb 24th of 2007 so it was still technically sanctioned to use that benchmark before its retirement and that it isn’t Intel conducting these benchmarks but the server makers such as Dell, Fujitsu, and HP.  In either case, it is the most recent Intel score versus AMD that just happens to be on an older benchmarking standard though it can be argued that SPECint_2000 was less relevant than what current applications call for.

Richard aggressively criticized what he characterized as Intel’s unethical behavior while promising that AMD will take the high road and not resort to dirty tactics.  In his video interview, David Berlind asked Richard how AMD intends to play this game and Richard responded that “Two wrongs don’t make a right and you can expect us to continue to stay true”.  Later on in the interview Berlind highlighted one of the benchmarks that AMD was showing at the conference showing how AMD’s best dual core Opteron was actually faster than Intel’s best dual core Xeon 5160.  See screen capture of Berlind’s video interview below.

So here we have AMD’s Richard screaming about Intel’s use of older stats from the previous SPECint standard which shows Intel killing AMD by a large margin, then promises not to do the same thing, then goes right on ahead and offers one month old stats showing AMD’s 3% lead on SPECint_rate2006. Would that be a problem if nothing has changed since that time? No, nothing wrong at all. But I checked with CPU analyst David Kanter of Real World technologies and here’s what he has to say:

In January, AMD lead Intel by about 3% in SPECint_rate 2006; currently, Intel has pulled ahead by around 6%.

SPECint_rate2006 best scores as of Feb 2007

Dual core processor Base Peak
Intel XEON 5160 53.2 55.2
AMD Opteron Model 2220 46.1 51.7

So right now, Intel beats AMD on SPECint_rate for both peak and base.

So we have AMD screaming about Intel’s misleading benchmarks, promises not to do same thing, then appears to turn around gives us outdated scores from a month earlier showing a small AMD advantage when the updated scores actually showed a larger advantage for Intel.  I did a little research and it appears that the updated base scores from Dell were published on February 26th 2007 which is only one day before the presentation so it would be reasonable to let that slide.  But the updated Intel “Peak” scores from Fujitsu Siemens were published by SPEC.org on February 8 2007 which was nearly three weeks before this AMD presentation at the W Hotel on February 27th 2007 so it’s a little hard to believe that AMD wouldn’t have known about it yet AMD chose to use a one month old slide showing us outdated inferior Intel results.

[UPDATE 3/3/2007 - AMD has notified me via email late Friday that they didn't show the updated Intel scores that were actually 9% higher because their legal team had not approved the updated Intel scores yet.  Since SPEC.org posted scores are about as independent and legitimate as they come and the certification process is extremely rigorous, it’s a bit disingenuous to use your own legal department to block your opponent’s best scores.  The AMD spokesperson told me that they will expedite this legal review process in the future and that “Thanks to you, we will add in a ‘day of’ check, even when presenting a benchmark that was updated only a few weeks earlier.”  I will follow up with AMD on Monday because they want to poke some holes in what Intel presented Wall Street last week.  If it turns out that Intel suppressed better AMD scores in the same way, I'll post that next week.]

But this isn’t the only problem with AMD’s presentation of benchmarks.  While it might seem reasonable to be comparing the “best” AMD dual-core processor against Intel’s best dual-core processor, it completely ignores the fact that Intel customers can choose to save a lot of money with Intel quad-core processors such as the XEON X5355 processor.  Instead of buying two dual-core CPUs, smart shoppers will buy a single quad-core CPU and save tons of money on enterprise server software licensing which is often 5 to 10 times more expensive than the entire server.  While it’s possible to save half on the server and slash power consumption with fewer quad core CPUs, it’s not unusual to see enterprise software licenses costing in excess of $50,000 per CPU socket!  AMD continues to argue that Intel’s quad-core chip somehow isn’t “real” because it uses two dual-core dies instead of a single quad-core die.

The problem for AMD is that the benchmarks on Intel’s quad-core annihilates any dual-core CPUs so there’s nothing “fake” about the performance.  It also happens to be the case that no enterprise software makers charge their software based on die count; they base it on CPU socket count so the fact that Intel has quad-core CPUs and AMD doesn’t gives Intel a huge advantage for the first half of 2007.  AMD will probably take back a small edge in the two to four socket server market when their single-die Barcelona by middle of this year but Intel’s 45nm Penryn will make sure the honeymoon in Barcelona won’t last more than 6 months.  You can see a full AMD versus Intel roadmap here.

It is a well known fact that all companies hardware or software will present their best foot forward and favor the benchmarks that makes them look good.  But leaving out your competitors up-to-date data to make it look like you’re ahead in the same benchmark is very disturbing and there is a world of difference between cherry picking benchmarks versus cherry picking data.  The only thing worse than that is hypocrisy.

Is AMD being hypocritical by using outdated Intel scores?

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George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 118 Talkback(s)
AMD does it suck?  muehlbauer | 03/02/07
Oh Yes it does!!  paddles13 | 03/02/07
Why?  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
You can't blame them for the confusion  klumper | 03/02/07
AMD's complaint  Robert Crocker | 03/02/07
Where do you make this stuff up?  georgeou | 03/02/07
Didn't see the video  Robert Crocker | 03/02/07
AMD knowingly suppressed better numbers for Intel  georgeou | 03/02/07
George Ou knowingly makes accusations he cannot substantiate  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
OMG  richvball44 | 03/03/07
Marketing is Marketing  nucrash | 03/02/07
*** LATE BREAKING NEWS ***  D. T. Schmitz | 03/02/07
OK, so now AMD can build a cheaper junk PC  nucrash | 03/02/07
OK everybody, just relax  WiredGuy | 03/02/07
As long as Mike Cox posts...  nucrash | 03/02/07
Wow.  addraek | 03/02/07
That movie was horrible  nucrash | 03/02/07
Apparently...  D. T. Schmitz | 03/02/07
I just didn't care for the Breaking news being over two days old  nucrash | 03/02/07
good grief  richvball44 | 03/03/07
AMD vs Intel  bmoliver | 03/02/07
George is much like the paper MCSEs i have to deal with  Airwolph | 03/02/07
It's not just you.  Letophoro | 03/02/07
Prior to the Core 2, there wasn't much to brag about  georgeou | 03/02/07
admission?  richvball44 | 03/03/07
I wasn't even blogging full time  georgeou | 03/04/07
..  richvball44 | 03/04/07
At least you're not denying your obvious preference for MS any more.  Letophoro | 03/05/07
Again, what does that have to do with AMD's hypocrisy?  georgeou | 03/02/07
Goerge Ou pay no attention to the man behind the curtain pulling the string  Intellihence | 03/02/07
pesonal choice  dhooge06 | 03/02/07
From ZD nets view, who cares.  b_wallach@... | 03/02/07
So let me get this straight  georgeou | 03/02/07
id say  richvball44 | 03/03/07
Is George Ou out to ANNIHILATE AMD?  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
Excellent response, TechExec2!  hermann@... | 03/02/07
George Respond!  kyron.gustafson@... | 03/02/07
A 9% lie isn't significant?  georgeou | 03/02/07
NO, it aint  richvball44 | 03/03/07
Thanks, hermann!  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
Bias? What did I misrepresent?  georgeou | 03/02/07
My reply  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
the problem is  richvball44 | 03/03/07
Well PUT! if this was a trial I'd be saying.  Bill F. | 03/02/07
Thanks Bill F!  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
You're blinded by loyalty  georgeou | 03/02/07
Are the tests the same?  TripleII | 03/02/07
NO, SPEC is done by server vendors  georgeou | 03/02/07
You're right. I am blinded by loyalty...to the truth.  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
Sheesh George, I must say that this was a very weak article  jacec | 03/02/07
You've lost all credibility with your rant on Quad cores  georgeou | 03/02/07
Attacking me does not address the issues I raised. You're dodging it.  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
Here's the bottom line  georgeou | 03/02/07
Fact vs. Fiction. We're dancing now...  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
ignorance or common sense  richvball44 | 03/03/07
George: Here's a bone for you  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
AMD did know  georgeou | 03/02/07
Good  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
This is getting pathetic. They knew! They knew!  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
Wasn't a guess  georgeou | 03/03/07
Not a guess? Then, what was it?  TechExec2 | 03/03/07
Not a guess? Then, what was it?  TechExec2 | 03/03/07
I just told you and you can believe it or not.  georgeou | 03/03/07
Not a guess? Then, what was it? *** CORRECTION ***  TechExec2 | 03/03/07
Apparently he has no actual sources for this.  B.O.F.H. | 03/03/07
lmao  richvball44 | 03/03/07
One point about this story that smells bad  b_wallach@... | 03/02/07
Where was the "Still beat your wife Q?"  TripleII | 03/02/07
Why not read the article and then decide if my poll was fair?  georgeou | 03/02/07
I read the article, you poll was poorly phrased.  Bill F. | 03/02/07
I read the article, you poll was poorly phrased.  Bill F. | 03/02/07
I said I skimmed  TripleII | 03/02/07
HOW DO YOU COMPARE CPU VERSUS CPU?  georgeou | 03/02/07
Even better  nucrash | 03/02/07
George the weekend is upon us  klumper | 03/02/07
hehe  richvball44 | 03/03/07
When is a quad-core not a quad-core?  pristle | 03/02/07
Use George's approach  TechExec2 | 03/02/07
benchmarks, smenchmarks  pristle | 03/02/07
Why didn?t you name - Intel-monopoly is good? Competition & customers? (NT)  Vily Clay | 03/02/07
*** YET MORE LATE BREAKING SENSATIONAL NEWS ***  D. T. Schmitz | 03/03/07
laugh laugh laugh  TechExec2 | 03/03/07
*** LATE BREAKING NEWS -- GEORGE OU RESPONDS ***  D. T. Schmitz | 03/03/07
Great story  nizuse | 03/03/07
Bottom Line  bmoliver | 03/03/07
Shoot the messenger  georgeou | 03/03/07
If I were king in the middle ages, and my messenger...  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
Something else: That post I just made was humor laugh  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
Message has been deleted.  sharikou | 03/03/07
George is not a retard  nizuse | 03/05/07
George Ou, can you read?  sharikou | 03/03/07
AMD exposed George Ou  sharikou | 03/03/07
Nothing but questions without straight answers  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
This is getting out of hand  georgeou | 03/04/07
This is just more spin from you  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
Uh, George?  Joel R | 03/05/07
Great post! This is a smart person!  TechExec2 | 03/05/07
A quick review of the SPEC benchmark tests was enlightening  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
George  D. T. Schmitz | 03/04/07
Thanks...  TechExec2 | 03/04/07
Stop shooting the messenger Dietrich  georgeou | 03/04/07
Then...  D. T. Schmitz | 03/04/07
At the time of the post, it WAS a question  georgeou | 03/04/07
I don't know what...  D. T. Schmitz | 03/04/07
I just don't care to be accused of things I haven't done  georgeou | 03/04/07
What is it about ZDNet?  TonyMcS | 03/04/07
George, what is it about you?  NonZealot | 03/04/07
I believe everyone puts their best foot forward.  osreinstall | 03/04/07
Hypocrisy is when you criticize others  georgeou | 03/04/07
It is best to leave the Wag of the Finger out of the boardroom.  osreinstall | 03/04/07
Look the bottom of the SPEC.org page  georgeou | 03/05/07
I see what you did.  osreinstall | 03/05/07
A typo  osreinstall | 03/05/07
You ignored dimensions  hdn.de | 03/05/07
specint != specintrate  markhahn | 03/05/07
They're all SPECint_rate scores  georgeou | 03/05/07
Oh my, George hit a nerve!  Prognosticator | 03/05/07
RE: Is AMD being hypocritical about benchmark ethics?  a1931582 | 11/22/09

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