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March 20th, 2007

How Apple orchestrated web attack on researchers

Posted by George Ou @ 2:06 am

Categories: Apple, Defcon2006, Mobile/Wireless, News, Security, ~Events~

Tags:

In Focus » See more posts on: Apple Security

Last summer, when I wrote "Vicious orchestrated assault on MacBook wireless researchers," it set off a long chain of heated debates and blogs. I had hoped to release the information on who orchestrated the vicious assault, but threats of lawsuits and a spineless company that refused to defend itself meant I couldn't disclose the details. A lot has changed since then: Researcher David Maynor is no longer working for SecureWorks, and he's finally given me permission to publish the details.

The scandal broke when Jim Dalrymple put out a hit piece on security researchers David Maynor and Jon "Johnny Cache" Ellch, saying that their research was a "misrepresentation."  Dalrymple based his conclusion solely on the word of Apple PR director Lynn Fox. David Chartier went even further and said that, "SecureWorks admits to falsifying MacBook wireless hack" based solely on a SecureWorks disclaimer (it's no longer there) that merely reaffirmed what the original video was saying all along–that the hack demonstrated in the video was based on third-party wireless hardware.  I had personally interviewed the two researchers before this whole scandal broke out, and I specifically asked Maynor and Ellch if they were using Apple's Wi-Fi hardware in their official Black Hat demonstration. They clearly said that no Apple Wi-Fi product was used for the exploit. That's why I was shocked to see the researchers blamed for changing their story and "admitting" they made the whole thing up when no one changed the story and no one admitted to anything. Yet the headline from Chartier, along with Dalrymple's story, was blasted all over the Web after it made Digg and Slashdot. Everyone simply assumed Maynor and Ellch were frauds because they supposedly "admitted it."

Through all of this, I've been accused of covering up for my "buddies" and losing my objectivity, but I had never met David Maynor and Jon Ellch–and last summer was my first trip ever to Black Hat and Defcon. It was by mere chance that I overheard them in an interview with another reporter in the press room. I asked them if I could videotape an interview with them afterward, and they said yes–which led to this interview. But when I read the news that the researchers "admitted to falsifying their research," I was shocked, and I almost believed it for a second–until I read the stories and saw that there was no admission but a simple reaffirmation of what had been claimed all along on SecureWorks' Web site in some obscure location that blogger Chartier just *happened* to find. It didn't matter that the so-called "evidence" wasn't an "admission" at all because it looked the part, and that's all that was needed to hang the two researchers and brand them as frauds. But did Chartier really just happen to come across the evidence?

When I called David Maynor to get to the bottom of this, it turned out that Apple PR director Lynn Fox (who was also cited by Jim Dalrymple as proof that the researchers "misrepresented" the research) was the puppetmaster from start to finish. She not only contacted sympathetic bloggers like Chartier and "journalists" like Jim Dalrymple, she was actually the one who got SecureWorks to publish the "clarification" in the first place. Once she got SecureWorks to publish a clarification that merely reiterated the fact that third-party hardware was used in the original video (and it was clearly disclosed in the first 20 seconds of the video that it was third-party hardware), she used that as "incriminating" evidence that the researchers admitted to falsifying the video and shared her "findings" with Apple-friendly press.

[* Update 4/4/2007 - David Chartier disputes he was contacted by Lynn Fox and is complaining that I didn't check with him on this.  That's hardly the issue here and I know for a fact from sources at Apple that Fox contacted the media and planted the "researchers admit to lying" story and handed out the so-called incriminating link to SecureWorks' website.  The fact that Fox did or didn't directly speak with Chartier is completely immaterial and it's been established that Fox did speak with Dalrymple.  Unless Chartier makes it a habit to routinely patrol obscure corners of the SecureWorks website, the information flowed from Lynn Fox to the media and it quickly made its way to David Chartier where he embellished and slandered two security researchers.  Why didn't I email Charier and ask him directly?  Simple, Chartier has been ignoring me when I ask him to explain why he slandered Maynor and Ellch and he had been deleting my posts on his blog asking him to explain the same question.  Chartier now claims he never saw my posts but I explicitly remember my posts on his blog and remembered him dodging the questions on why he slandered Maynor and Ellch.  Chartier can wipe my comments on his blog but he can't wipe it on mine and this thread still sits here with him dodging my question.  Chartier can say he never saw my posts all he wants but he dodged several of my posts on my blog and he erased my posts on his blog and now denies it.  After all that, I wasn't going to waste my time trying to contact someone who dodges my questions and deletes my posts.  He can't deny he slandered David Maynor and Jon Ellch and he won't answer to it.  Unfortunately there are more than 1000 links on Google pointing to Chartier's slanderous blog stating that SecureWorks admits to falsification.  Chartier and Dalrymple who were ultimately manipulated by Lynn Fox's planted story were the focal point of deception and that's why I'm calling these three people out.]

But how did Lynn Fox get SecureWorks to publish a clarification on its Web site? It turned out that Fox had actually wanted an even more incriminating statement from David Maynor himself and sent him an e-mail on 8/15/2006 (two days before the public accusations of fraud hit the Web) demanding that he post a confession word for word. Maynor refused and told Fox to speak to SecureWorks PR, and the two parties came to a compromise on 8/16/2006, where SecureWorks would simply post a clarification. SecureWorks never knew what hit them when the accusations of fraud hit on 8/17/2006 because they figured they were merely posting a clarification that reiterated what they had been saying all along. They had no idea that MacWorld and an unofficial Apple blog would tear them to pieces and simply assumed it was an admission that facts were originally misrepresented. As proof of how this all went down, here is the e-mail Lynn Fox sent to David Maynor demanding that he post the confession publicly. I was given a copy of it on 8/19/2006.

From: Lynn Fox <####@apple.com>
To: David Maynor <####@mac.com>
Cc: Moody David <####@apple.com>, Wiley Hodges <####@apple.com>
Date: Tue Aug 15, 2006 06:14:09 PM PDT
Subject: Your post on SecureWorks website

<<Original Attached>>

David,

Below is the note we drafted about the MacBook exploit confusion.

Please confirm that you've received this and will post it without text changes on your blog and front and center on SecureWorks' news & events page tonight. The placement of this post should be as prominent as the initial announcement of the exploit demo at Black Hat.

You are welcome to call me on my cell at 415-###-#### if you need to discuss any further.

Thanks,
Lynn


For the Record: MacBook is not inherently vulnerable to Black Hat-demonstrated exploit
By David Maynor

I want to clarify something about the wifi device driver exploit we demonstrated at Black Hat in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago.

Confusion has mounted as to whether the exploit I demoed at Black Hat and for Brian Krebs of the Washington Post is reliant the use of a third party driver. In short, the answer is yes. The MacBook is not inherently vulnerable to the attack, and I never said that it was.

Part of the confusion lies in the fact that we have not specifically named the third-party device driver; this is because we know that the vendor is working on a patch and we don't want to release the name of the chipset until the fix is in place.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion. Stay tuned for a live demo of this exploit live at Toorcon.


Note that I've masked out parts of the e-mail addresses and parts of Lynn Fox's cell phone number for privacy issues, but I can assure you it was the right phone number. I actually called the number to confirm that it was real, and Lynn Fox was quite upset and demanded to know where I got the number. I declined to answer since the e-mail at the time was given to me by David Maynor off the record. I asked Fox about the scandal, and she told me that her cell phone was breaking up and that she'd call me back. Within a minute, I had David Maynor instant-messaging me that Lynn Fox was on the phone with him in a rage. I told him I didn't disclose anything to Fox, and Maynor simply directed Fox to SecureWorks PR.

When I finally got Fox back on the phone, I asked her some questions about how MacWorld and the unofficial Apple blog got the information on the so-called confession. I got all my questions answered, but I can't disclose what she said since Fox refused to speak on the record. But the bottom line is that Lynn Fox played Jim Dalrymple, David Chartier, and the rest of the Mac press/blogosphere like a violin, though it was clear they were all willing participants. When I pointed out the flaws in their stories, Chartier and Dalrymple simply ignored me and stuck to their guns and Chartier erased all of my comments on his weblog.

So what was the end result of all this? Apple continued to claim that there were no vulnerabilities in Mac OS X, but came a month later and patched its wireless drivers (presumably for vulnerabilities that didn't actually exist). Apple patched these "nonexistent vulnerabilities" but then refused to give any credit to David Maynor and Jon Ellch. Since Apple was going to take research, not give proper attribution, and smear security researchers, the security research community responded to Apple's behavior with the MoAB (Month of Apple Bugs) and released a flood of zero-day exploits without giving Apple any notification. The result was that Apple was forced to patch 62 vulnerabilities in just the first three months of 2007, including last week's megapatch of 45 vulnerabilities.

Apple is a mega corporation that nearly smashed the reputation of two individuals with bogus claims of fraud. It didn't matter that they weren't the ones pulling the trigger because they were pulling all the strings. David Chartier should be ashamed of himself and his blog. Jim Dalrymple of Macworld and his colleagues who jumped on the bandwagon should be ashamed of their reporting. Frank Hayes was the only one of Dalrymple's colleagues who had the decency and honor to apologize. Most of all, shame on Apple.

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 546 Talkback(s)
Never mind the horse head George....  Scrat | 03/20/07
The truth will set you free  georgeou | 03/20/07
Still missing the "vicious orchestrated attack" part  Robert Crocker | 03/20/07
Yes there was something factually wrong with the statement.  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Misrepresentation  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Shouldn't you be apologising about now....  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
The vast "Apple" Winged conspiracy eh? Funny....  Laff | 03/20/07
Re:The vast "Apple" Winged conspiracy eh? Funny....  Scrat | 03/20/07
If a letter from an Apple publicist instructing ...  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
What do I have to apologize for?  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Guilty as charged  Robert Crocker | 03/20/07
"...that Occam dude..."  handydan918 | 03/20/07
RE: Yes there was something factually wrong with the statement.  Protagonistic | 03/20/07
As a Mac user ... thank you George  LilBambi_z | 03/20/07
So Jihad George....  Rick_K | 03/20/07
Look at your rantings  fr0thy2. | 03/20/07
You need to...  Rick_K | 03/20/07
Skepticism?  flatliner | 03/21/07
I just wanted you to know that this Microsoft tactic is not working.  nomorems | 03/20/07
Message has been deleted.  SquishyParts | 03/20/07
wow, pot calling the kettle black.  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
You looking in the mirror again?  Rick_K | 03/20/07
Oh, that's how it is then.  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
I love it.  nomorems | 03/20/07
By the way - why do you care if people spend sooo much on Apple? (NT)  nomorems | 03/20/07
To repeat what I said on Tech Rep.  Cayble | 03/20/07
Question  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Both things were true, from what I recall.  Cayble | 03/20/07
Still just speculation  tic swayback | 03/21/07
You have got to be kidding. Dont play so dumb.  Cayble | 03/26/07
Excellent post!  NonZealot | 03/20/07
Message has been deleted.  SquishyParts | 03/20/07
Your kidding right?  Cayble | 03/20/07
ummm....correct me if I'm wrong...  mdsmedia | 03/20/07
Proof request...  stevenrluce@... | 03/21/07
Be at peace with yourself  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
Uppers? (NT)  Scrat | 03/20/07
Don't know what you mean.  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
Dietrich he's referring to drugs  Intellihence | 03/20/07
Indeed, what a loser *IF* I used drugs...  Scrat | 03/20/07
There There Scrat  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
Nice!!!  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Stick to the facts  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
Still unsubstantiated???  Cayble | 03/20/07
Apart from the fact they patched the vulnerabilities....  mdsmedia | 03/20/07
Prove it doesn't exist? Are you daft?  GW Mahoney | 03/22/07
How about Apple just comes out and says it never existed  Cayble | 03/26/07
You keep repeating yourself there Shade...we know, we know  Laff | 03/20/07
An admission that Apple suppressed the facts ...  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Facts?!  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
well said  GSavage777 | 03/20/07
Your story like you can't handle the truth  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
I will say this...Apple must have FANTASTIC hardware and software!  nomorems | 03/20/07
It is not Apple we are baggin on.  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
You couldn't recognize a fact if it hit you in the head  GW Mahoney | 03/22/07
You've obviously confused me with someone else  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
You tell him  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
I am telling you  Linux User 1 | 03/20/07
Man  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
Hey, at least it's you =-)  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
It's because of  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
How fitting.  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Actually penguins do fly...  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
That's great  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
In Solidarity! happy  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
ShadeTree...  mrlinux | 03/20/07
Not even close.  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Well Iam still waiting on all the promised evidence  mrlinux | 03/21/07
if this were microsoft  philchil | 03/21/07
No unlike you I dont convict without evidence...  mrlinux | 03/21/07
They can't look at facts  fr0thy2. | 03/20/07
You're so right.  Rick_K | 03/20/07
"Cult of the Mac"  nomorems | 03/20/07
Just so you know ...  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Some smoking gun  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Tsk! Tsk!  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Not demonstrated  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
Let me get this straight?  Laff | 03/20/07
That was a stretch.  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Very flexible myself practice Ju-jitsu lots a fun..you?  Laff | 03/20/07
Hapkido Myself  nucrash | 03/20/07
Well there is that...  Laff | 03/20/07
I prefer gun kata...  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
Gun Kata == Linux?  nucrash | 03/20/07
nucrash... it was a joke from a movie I  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
Insert Equlibrium Plug Here  nucrash | 03/20/07
My thoughts on this analogy  People | 03/20/07
No proof required  jcg_z | 03/21/07
Completely OT but it needs to be said  martinfam@... | 03/20/07
Did you actually read that article?  tic swayback | 03/20/07
So you are saying that  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Read what he wrote--no one knows  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Apple clearly stated...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Check these links:  msalzberg | 03/20/07
So where does it talk  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
As usual...  John L. Ries | 03/20/07
One thing...  Cayble | 03/26/07
A dispassionate reading shows that Maynor brought this on himself  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
What if it was MS?  lrmccain | 03/22/07
Interesting piece, George  Chad_z | 03/20/07
Guess you won't be buying an Apple. Cult of the Mac folks are soo sad.NOT!  nomorems | 03/20/07
The REAL fact  bahamude | 03/20/07
Actually, you and George are wrong on an important point  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
Not necessarily in this case  Chad_z | 03/20/07
I disagree, particularly in this case...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
The question is...  Rick_K | 03/20/07
That's a good point...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
why are you still going over a 3rd party scenario?  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
It's simple  Rick_K | 03/20/07
whatever  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
PC & Mac  kwsjr82 | 03/21/07
Really?  Rick_K | 03/21/07
Ok Rick  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
The fact that Apple...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Is is really important  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Apologize for what?  Swift48 | 03/21/07
Yes and no  John Zern | 03/20/07
Please quote the inappropriate behavior?  mlindl | 03/21/07
And what about their reprehensible behavior?  Swift48 | 03/21/07
What about  Rick_K | 03/21/07
If we were just talking about third party drivers . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
I remember the news report  mds_z | 03/20/07
Read this (the orginal Krebs article)  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Only if you conflate two unrelated stories  georgeou | 03/20/07
You mean the faked video?  Rick_K | 03/21/07
were you living under a cave or something.  zzz1234567890 | 03/22/07
This is it?!?!  frgough | 03/20/07
Or...  justanitguy | 03/20/07
Red Herring fallacy  frgough | 03/20/07
I blame the Media  nucrash | 03/20/07
So do I. They are all nutters, this fellow being one  labarker | 03/20/07
What?? But I thought I was the worst!  nomorems | 03/20/07
Time to move along  D. T. Schmitz | 03/20/07
You can only live today once and never again  nucrash | 03/20/07
Yeah but first...  Santelli | 03/20/07
Money and Zealots  Billybob115 | 03/20/07
So why don't you just apologize for Microsoft already?  nomorems | 03/20/07
Do you call yourself a "reporter"?  macbill | 03/20/07
Sources are NOT always "on the record"  Santelli | 03/20/07
Message has been deleted.  nomorems | 03/20/07
Get a real computer:  xxn1927 | 03/20/07
Running Mac OS X  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 03/20/07
The new MACS are PCs...  JCitizen | 03/20/07
Of course  cmjrees | 03/20/07
I guess I can see..  JCitizen | 03/20/07
really?  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Get a PC? And have it play up and break down all the time like  labarker | 03/20/07
It all fits and really incriminates Apple's Fox!  fredhag@... | 03/20/07
You're right.  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Trolling for dollars  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 03/20/07
its apparent who is the one who is trolling  zzz1234567890 | 03/22/07
Apple is just another large corporation covering its assets  njroy55 | 03/20/07
THAT'S A LIE!!! APPLE IS OUR DEITY TO BE OBEYED! THINK DIFFERENT!!!1!!1!!!2  HypnoToad72 | 03/20/07
HATE APPLE MUCH?  nomorems | 03/20/07
My iPod found a home....  magpie_z | 03/22/07
Ooops...  magpie_z | 03/22/07
Macs hacked???  aplman | 03/20/07
hacked??? Why bother...  bgonetoo | 03/20/07
You should correct that. Apple INVENTED the PC. IBM hopped on board.  nomorems | 03/20/07
and Lynn Fox supplied CNET's James Kim with a fake map !  DanTheOtherMan | 03/20/07
Lynn Fox also...  doh123 | 03/20/07
That's just sad. Remember family members can see this.  nomorems | 03/20/07
I agree . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
Evil? Ha. Not even funny. Just silly.  Cayble | 03/20/07
Apple Bashing Continues Unabated...  IAHawkeye | 03/20/07
Human nature  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Close, but not perfect  frgough | 03/20/07
No need to brag  tic swayback | 03/20/07
A lesson in love...  smdunn | 03/21/07
I don't know if anyone is even still reading...  brble | 03/22/07
frgough is wrong....peole hate Macs because they cost more.  nomorems | 03/20/07
The Ten Commandments  IAHawkeye | 03/20/07
But....thou SHALT COVEt Microsoft...they are the replacement for GOD ....  nomorems | 03/20/07
Funny, I thought that was Apple's claim . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
How much money do you make?  mlindl | 03/21/07
"You have come to a sad realization"  MacCanuck | 03/21/07
Are you saying, it's easier  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
It's not about being easier...  Rick_K | 03/21/07
oh get out of town.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Stop being stupid...  magpie_z | 03/22/07
Cute...  IAHawkeye | 03/23/07
Ouch  MacCanuck | 03/23/07
Human nature?  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
No, it's human nature  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I found a research paper on the insurance industry  Linux User 147560 | 03/20/07
I think that it was actually . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
Listen boys.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
I didn't say they WEREN'T safer . . .  JLHenry | 03/21/07
Well then  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
You just described the average Mac user to a tee  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
"Mac[s]...generally get..  msalzberg | 03/22/07
Thank you, thank you, thank you  MacCanuck | 03/23/07
If you were paying attention  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
I was paying attention... you're still a flaming zealot  MacCanuck | 03/26/07
How about the report..  magpie_z | 03/22/07
I know just enough  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Numbers, numbers  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Of course you can't  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Gotta love those old 'Cudas  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Indeed, the Cuda's were nice....but  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Key words:  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Yes, they are key, anything else is cynical  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Oh my  tic swayback | 03/22/07
xuniL_z - I can't believe you said that...  MacCanuck | 03/23/07
You felt the need to reply to that twice??  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
You are insulting and a denigrator of people.  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
Let's make sure the html is there for you  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
mistake. sorry mcCanuck.  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
Insulting, denigrating, shameful,....now you are just being ignorant.  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
A Ford Escape!?  Rick_K | 03/21/07
NO SS.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Slight correction:  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Thank you...  IAHawkeye | 03/20/07
One further note..  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Opinions based on fact...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
happy  IAHawkeye | 03/20/07
This is NOT Apple bashing, just plain bad  mlindl | 03/21/07
Apple is playing the smug card...  agarillon | 03/20/07
Clearly those commercials are striking a chord  tic swayback | 03/20/07
the heart of the matter  shraven | 03/20/07
beat me to the punch...  agarillon | 03/20/07
I think you meant to say "clique." (NT)  Joel R | 03/20/07
Thank you  tic swayback | 03/20/07
you are just as much  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Oh please!! I've seen "crapple" time and time again.  Laff | 03/20/07
How good of you ol' man  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Do you mind  nomorems | 03/20/07
First you make a couple claims that are easily shot down.  Laff | 03/20/07
xuniL_z... one of the biggest hypocrites  MacCanuck | 03/21/07
Laff  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
MacCanunck  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Do I really need to explain to you further my friend!?!  Laff | 03/21/07
Jim, Jiim o'l buddy.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
You need to look in a mirror.  Rick_K | 03/20/07
You need to look inside yourself  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Thank you  Rick_K | 03/20/07
Please.... you are posting to the choir here.  nomorems | 03/20/07
Rick_K thank you  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Rick_K  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
I'm Impressed . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
I need to introduce you to Vily  tic swayback | 03/20/07
You did all that.....  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Different beasts  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I suppose that was a bad example.  xuniL_z | 03/20/07
Don't agree with those numbers  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I don't agree with that at all.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Tough call  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Not that tough.  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
If that's true...  tic swayback | 03/21/07
If what you say is true  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
It does strike me as odd though  tic swayback | 03/21/07
I think it's simple  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Does anyone still sell by "impressions"?  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Well I suppose  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
What??? You didn't use ME as the example?  nomorems | 03/20/07
Isn't there a difference between confindence and smug?  Laff | 03/20/07
smug purports to be confidence...  agarillon | 03/20/07
So you could be one but accused on being the other?  Laff | 03/21/07
I am so sorry you had suchh a horrid time in high school.  nomorems | 03/20/07
Attached to windows OS? No... not at all....  agarillon | 03/20/07
Interesting phrasing  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I am sheep, hear me bleat...  agarillon | 03/20/07
You're getting a Dell, Dude!  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Rock on!!!!  agarillon | 03/20/07
There's no such thing as bad publicity  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I Disagree  brble | 03/20/07
Head on  tic swayback | 03/20/07
RE: "No such thing as bad publicity" . . .  jlhenry62 | 03/20/07
Two words: brilliant success  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Microsoft is not in a position  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Key phrase: They don't have to  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Key Phrase:  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
My new job  tic swayback | 03/21/07
I was joking about the job  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Perhaps it was the "royal we"  tic swayback | 03/21/07
It  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
One more time....  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
You gotta admit though....  bchesmer | 03/20/07
You gotta admit though....  bchesmer | 03/20/07
You gotta admit though...  bchesmer | 03/20/07
It's all about religion  Rick_K | 03/20/07
It's not the OS. It's called inaccuracy in the media, aka 'spin'.  HypnoToad72 | 03/20/07
Snotty and smug  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Not necessarily  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
They're sincere alright.  tic swayback | 03/21/07
doh! Adobe is relaunching Preimier for mac...  doctorSpoc | 03/20/07
Why does ZDnet put up with Ou??  bmoliver | 03/20/07
Nobody is forcing you to read it, are they?  James T. Kirk | 03/20/07
Probably because...  John L. Ries | 03/20/07
Now, if he'd only learn...  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Or the difference between...  GTWilson | 03/22/07
obvious, duh!  shraven | 03/20/07
Did you mean to say...  Joel R | 03/20/07
Mr Ou or Ow is just looking to vindicate himself ,,,  Intellihence | 03/20/07
Because we have to put up with Mactards...  Scrat | 03/20/07
The content of many of your posts  MacCanuck | 03/20/07
I use SuSE Linux MUCH more than Windows these days  Scrat | 03/21/07
Doesn't make you any better  MacCanuck | 03/23/07
Are you calling me  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
You "suggested" above that Mac users  MacCanuck | 03/23/07
Of course there are zealots in every  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
Maybe because he is usually spot on.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/20/07
Heh. Tell 'em Ax! (nt)  James T. Kirk | 03/20/07
You are talking b*ll*cks as usual  deaf_e_kate | 03/20/07
We really don't need to know what keeps your ears apart, ty (NT)  Scrat | 03/21/07
Because he's a nutter  labarker | 03/20/07
Thanks to users like you!  butler360 | 03/20/07
Because he generate traffic!  B.O.F.H. | 03/21/07
well  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Ah the vulnerability tack...  dwain.erhart@... | 03/20/07
True...that WOULD have been the honorable and right tthing  readwryt@... | 03/20/07
Odd  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I've seen over-reaction  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Reputation counts, ability to recognize culpability...  agarillon | 03/20/07
And if it *is* Wintel?  30YrVet | 03/20/07
Cause or effect?  winski | 03/20/07
Wow George!  bchesmer | 03/20/07
He always does but............  DemonX | 03/20/07
I'm actually glad to get this out and over with  georgeou | 03/20/07
Perhaps but it does like the "Month of OSX flaws"  Laff | 03/21/07
There are enough crackpots on both sides of the fence.  Xwindowsjunkie | 03/23/07
So let me understand!  mames1701 | 03/20/07
SOP  shraven | 03/20/07
you missed on part..  doctorSpoc | 03/20/07
Now I am getting a better understanding  mames1701 | 03/20/07
Depends on who you ask  tic swayback | 03/20/07
but i would add...  doctorSpoc | 03/20/07
Wonderful help  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
George when you have proof... give me a call...  doctorSpoc | 03/20/07
Poorly done...poorly understood.  agarillon | 03/20/07
you're an idiot!  doctorSpoc | 03/20/07
LOL...  agarillon | 03/20/07
APPLE: SSDD  whcressall@... | 03/20/07
Interesting...  JCitizen | 03/20/07
Slight correction  tic swayback | 03/20/07
let all see clearly for a while...  akaralia | 03/20/07
What really happened  doh123 | 03/20/07
...and sweep it under the rug...right?  agarillon | 03/20/07
no proof  doh123 | 03/20/07
PR is PR...  agarillon | 03/20/07
Yup!  bchesmer | 03/20/07
Sore Loser  robbyx | 03/20/07
Hacking is all about the numbers anyway  mames1701 | 03/20/07
Not that old chestnut  GW Mahoney | 03/20/07
It's like a spy novel  glocks out | 03/20/07
Whining  winski | 03/20/07
but you're the one doing the whining (NT)  Scrat | 03/20/07
I'm sure someone will have my head for this....  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
Unfortunately most, unlike you, simply prefer to live in denial  Scrat | 03/20/07
Microsoft *used* to be like this  georgeou | 03/20/07
I could point you to several posts...  Scrat | 03/21/07
Yes they're slow to respond sometimes, but they don't attack researchers  georgeou | 03/22/07
I completely agree on lack of response, but they're not threatening  georgeou | 03/23/07
I've had some support experience in the last 2 weeks with MS  Xwindowsjunkie | 03/23/07
No, you're not understanding..  msalzberg | 03/20/07
Then how do you explain the lies?  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
Can you explain further?  tic swayback | 03/20/07
You may have a point  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
No need for any apology  tic swayback | 03/20/07
I think what sticks in my craw though  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
We have a winner!!  NonZealot | 03/20/07
Too much zealotry on both sides  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Pssst!  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
Pay more attention please  tic swayback | 03/20/07
It's easy Tic  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
This however was a demonstratable exploit.  mrlinux | 03/21/07
What exploit? What evidence?  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Lets make one thing very clear too..  Cayble | 03/26/07
ONe thing you missed  Rick_K | 03/20/07
I didn't miss a trick  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
darn it  Shelendrea | 03/20/07
Actually...  Rick_K | 03/20/07
George's article is persuasive and well documented  sales@... | 03/20/07
Actually ...  ShadeTree | 03/20/07
partially an ipod reaction too  agarillon | 03/20/07
Defend at all costs  dragosani | 03/20/07
That one line sounds like it sums up  John Zern | 03/20/07
Not a Mac fan  dragosani | 03/20/07
Video  justanitguy | 03/20/07
sorry, you simply do not get it  isserley | 03/21/07
Thanks George, now the zealots have nothing left  NonZealot | 03/20/07
There you go again.  msalzberg | 03/20/07
try to get the logic:  isserley | 03/21/07
Just a little FYI  Rick_K | 03/21/07
Never mind Rick_K post  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
So what?  Someguy2 | 03/20/07
Another touchdown  zzz1234567890 | 03/20/07
George is that you ???  mrlinux | 03/20/07
?  bchesmer | 03/20/07
Microsoft spys attack Apple beacuse Vista is so poor  pineapple_welcome@... | 03/20/07
Market Share  ImUpAbvIt | 03/20/07
while i may not agree with your "hole" post, the last line "cracked" me up.  jjarman | 03/20/07
right  pineapple_welcome@... | 03/20/07
typical  Ken Shabby | 03/20/07
Alot of writing for alot of crap  mlindl | 03/20/07
Uh oh, the Mac zealot claims the Mac is not hackable!!  NonZealot | 03/20/07
That nasty old MacZealot  Ripragged | 03/20/07
Apple already did  TonyMcS | 03/20/07
Somebody, PLEASE, just hack a Mac for real, alright?  mlindl | 03/20/07
Then all you had to say was  John Zern | 03/20/07
No thanks  Joseph Gerbils | 03/20/07
Great user name  tic swayback | 03/20/07
You didn't and he didn't either!  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Credit where credit is due  tic swayback | 03/21/07
I wish this article could be posted all over the web  da1xception@... | 03/20/07
This kind of stuff usually gets dugg down  georgeou | 03/20/07
Working on a Hog Farm I learned a lesson  nucrash | 03/20/07
3,2,1...  nucrash | 03/20/07
What definition of proprietary are you using?  Martin Pilkington | 03/21/07
Whoops  nucrash | 03/21/07
How many people replace motherboards?  Martin Pilkington | 03/21/07
Maybe Ms Fox would like a job at HP?  IT_Guy_z | 03/20/07
More business as usual  klumper | 03/20/07
Calling out?  hadleyr | 03/20/07
George...  mrlinux | 03/20/07
It takes guts to antagonize a Major  claudeh@... | 03/20/07
Is that you George ???  mrlinux | 03/20/07
No Proof  1macgeek | 03/20/07
No Proof??!!  Ken Shabby | 03/20/07
Yes, No Proof  1macgeek | 03/21/07
There is no proof  Rick_K | 03/21/07
Wow...  KWierso | 03/20/07
Hopefully...  ImUpAbvIt | 03/20/07
You left out one thing  davids@... | 03/20/07
Concerning those commercials  arncus | 03/20/07
You certainly did notice those ads  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Paid for and by Corporations  micks_tricks | 03/21/07
I wish  tic swayback | 03/21/07
If you're looking for insight..  msalzberg | 03/22/07
Those commercials  TonyMcS | 03/20/07
Are you nuts? Guess you NEVER use Google because it's not an MS product!  nomorems | 03/20/07
Integrists and zealots do not accept criticisms  fibo | 03/20/07
Really?  tic swayback | 03/20/07
Give up Tic  TonyMcS | 03/20/07
Huh?  zkiwi | 03/20/07
Why are so obsessed with  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
Because  zkiwi | 03/21/07
zkiwi  xuniL_z | 03/21/07
I'd be able to read better....  tic swayback | 03/21/07
You are being quite naive  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Huh?  Laff | 03/21/07
Now who is being naieve?  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Weather Tic tends to lean in one direction or the other  Laff | 03/22/07
On the naive front  zkiwi | 03/21/07
Your right you are being naive.  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
au contraire  zkiwi | 03/22/07
It appears he his taking nothing on Faith...  mrlinux | 03/21/07
Trust no one  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Nice how you twisted that!  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Sad  tic swayback | 03/21/07
It is sad that you would ...  ShadeTree | 03/22/07
Apple has released 100% of the evidence that backs their claim  tic swayback | 03/22/07
You must also say  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Can you link the whole article?  tic swayback | 03/22/07
Nevermind, found it  tic swayback | 03/22/07
Lemming Alert -please don't feed the (MS) troll  Joseph Gerbils | 03/20/07
Smug Alert  Ken Shabby | 03/20/07
You must be new here  Joseph Gerbils | 03/20/07
Unlike Apple...  Ken Shabby | 03/20/07
George's Blog  dragosani | 03/21/07
Yeah, that was an accounting error on Microsoft's part happy  georgeou | 03/21/07
George sides with Black Hat hackers and claims Apple is smearing their rep  jjarman | 03/20/07
Message has been deleted.  ralphrides | 03/20/07
Well in my opinion....  Paco20 | 03/20/07
Apple and Media Set-up  daves1646 | 03/20/07
Nice, George.  nix_hed | 03/20/07
I've slammed MS plenty of times  georgeou | 03/21/07
Apple has done NOTHING wrong here  mlindl | 03/22/07
Mac Nuts  randmart@... | 03/20/07
Logic and facts won't help  TonyMcS | 03/20/07
Actually...More technical users and developers making the switch...  jjarman | 03/21/07
Can you count?  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Message has been deleted.  Reverend MacFellow | 03/21/07
You can't even see the front row in either link.  ShadeTree | 03/21/07
Yes I can count, I was there...  jjarman | 03/22/07
Also...  jjarman | 03/22/07
More wacky claims  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Nice little earner  TonyMcS | 03/20/07
Are you sure  tic swayback | 03/21/07
Sounds Plausable  iemckinnon | 03/20/07
Storm in a teacup  hanoveral@... | 03/20/07
Security showoffs  Swift48 | 03/21/07
eat your words, George Ou  isserley | 03/21/07
Krebs article and official video are not mutually exclusive  georgeou | 03/21/07
As many issues as there are with software...  mrlinux | 03/22/07
No George  zkiwi | 03/22/07
ooh georgie.....  isserley | 03/23/07
Report to FBI  joemartn | 03/21/07
EAT YOUR WORDS. pt II  isserley | 03/21/07
Apple attack  spiros.stamatakis@... | 03/21/07
Sensationalist Headlines  ignis fatuusz | 03/21/07
Ou-weeeee! More distortion!  Reverend MacFellow | 03/21/07
Apple justified if hack was misleading  interlocutor | 03/21/07
It led to Apple patching one month later  georgeou | 03/21/07
Evidence?  interlocutor | 03/22/07
there was evidence presented  zzz1234567890 | 03/22/07
It has been mentioned before...  msalzberg | 03/22/07
Learn to count  zkiwi | 03/23/07
Lost correspondence?  dbcharti | 03/21/07
There goes that conspiracy theory  tic swayback | 03/21/07
from David Chartier's article...  Arm A. Geddon | 03/21/07
From a known liar  georgeou | 03/21/07
On the issue of lies...  zkiwi | 03/22/07
Let's really hammer him then  tic swayback | 03/22/07
Doesn't matter if he got it directly, point is that Apple spread the info  georgeou | 03/22/07
How did she spread the info?  tic swayback | 03/22/07
She misrepresented the clarification  georgeou | 03/22/07
Now you know  Rick_K | 03/22/07
Once again your bias shows  ShadeTree | 03/22/07
If you make the claim...  tic swayback | 03/22/07
Your words not mine prove you wrong.  ShadeTree | 03/22/07
Not so  tic swayback | 03/22/07
You accussed George of making ...  ShadeTree | 03/22/07
No, I'm accusing you of making things up  tic swayback | 03/22/07
Well...  zkiwi | 03/22/07
You don't know who  xuniL_z | 03/22/07
Did you actually read Hayes' article?  tic swayback | 03/22/07
uh, yeah, i read it.  xuniL_z | 03/23/07
I posted on your blog, you deleted it  georgeou | 03/21/07
What about the video, George? Did Maynor "misrepresent" there?  gcesare | 03/21/07
MAC Address  mrlinux | 03/23/07
What about the video, George? Did Maynor  gcesare | 03/21/07
Conflate my ass  Swift48 | 03/21/07
Vicious orchestrated ducks  Swift48 | 03/21/07
if Apple is going to emulate MS on its  A.Lizard | 03/21/07
if you want to know  A.Lizard | 03/21/07
Dumb comment....  mrlinux | 03/21/07
He said...she said....  PseudoTechie27 | 03/21/07
CALLING ALL APPLE ADVOCATES......  Scrat | 03/22/07
Apple needs to Defend what ???  mrlinux | 03/22/07
an apology and explanation  Gate crasher | 04/05/07
The REAL truth about Apple Security  mlindl | 03/22/07
Let's get serious!  dlmeyer@... | 03/22/07
Perhaps George should have listened to the words in the video.  B.O.F.H. | 03/22/07
And the Apple BITES!  jkratzer3 | 03/22/07
At this point, I am just posting to post  nucrash | 03/22/07
Nah, not even close. The Linux versus Windows boot time blog got 1196  georgeou | 03/22/07
Wow, Apple doesn't have that big of a Market Share  nucrash | 03/22/07
500th post  zzz1234567890 | 03/22/07
Vista isn't Vunerable to hackers!  Mercat | 03/24/07
Thank you, for all your efforts George.  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 03/24/07
You're giving Apple too much credit  cbrentano | 03/24/07
Gruber didn't claim there was a confession  georgeou | 03/26/07
Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!  voicebox5 | 04/05/07
GET A PC! Wouashhhh  Serpamac | 04/05/07
RE: How Apple orchestrated web attack on researchers *NEW*  a1931582 | 11/22/09

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