There is no pending "net neutrality" legislation
WiredGuy | 06/04/07
|

It's on hold. Remember that Markey is in charge now
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

Also note that Markey wants to ban less than 2 mbps as broadband
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
Compared to other countries, no it can't
ordaj@... | 06/04/07
|
  
Say what?
Stuka | 06/04/07
|
   
Re: Broadband
BubbaJ | 06/04/07
|
    
yes...
Stuka | 06/04/07
|
     
Broadband Definition
BubbaJ | 06/04/07
|
   
Yes, that is the technical definition
dragosani | 06/04/07
|
    
You cannot compare
Stuka | 06/04/07
|
     
I wasn't debating against that at all
dragosani | 06/04/07
|
     
Already dumped billions. Should have it by now
ordaj@... | 06/04/07
|
     
Total bunk...
civikminded | 06/04/07
|
     
Canada...
Stuka | 06/04/07
|
     
and most other country's make you pay buy how much bandwidth you use
SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
|
     
Quote from Consumer Federation report
civikminded | 06/04/07
|
     
You're comparing countries smaller than one state!
Spoon Jabber | 06/04/07
|
     
Re: You cannot compare
none none | 06/04/07
|
     
Re: Canada...
none none | 06/04/07
|
     
Billions = $3/person/billion
gardoglee | 06/06/07
|
   
House Committee wants GAO to investigate US broadband
ordaj@... | 06/04/07
|
  
Have you tried paying for phone calls in Germany or S. Korea?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
How about calling to South Korea
nucrash | 06/05/07
|
    
Vonage is banned from S. Korea
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
In India they have their own way
p.vinnie@... | 06/06/07
|
   
Who is "they"? - that has banned VoIP for US soldiers
WiredGuy | 06/05/07
|
    
No -- most likely the So Korean Telco.
pob63rec | 06/05/07
|
     
Do you think that gov regulation will help?
Spoon Jabber | 06/05/07
|
    
The S. Korean government just banned our Soldiers from using services like
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
That's not a good move by Korean Telcos
WiredGuy | 06/05/07
|
     
Simple, just put an access control list blocking all of Vonage servers
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
 
George, McCain is your man!
WiredGuy | 06/05/07
|
  
Don't put words in to his mouth or mine
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
   
Never tried to put words in your mouth, or Sen. McCain's
WiredGuy | 06/05/07
|
    
You said he and I supports the carrier's right to block competitors
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
   
but georgeou if AT&T says well were going to charge this
SO.CAL Guy | 06/05/07
|
George, I don't think you are looking in the right place.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|

I agree (WOW)
dragosani | 06/04/07
|
 
I Agree!
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|

And how many times have the FCC fouled up.
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
 
Focus on the wrong problem
dragosani | 06/04/07
|
  
Sorry that I was misinformed by a poor media
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
 
What the market will bear.
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|
  
On a Personal Note
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
  
Uh... Anton
Linux User 147560 | 06/04/07
|
  
Again you're not addressing the issue
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
  
LU, I think you wrote to agree with me.
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|

Agreed
NetArch. | 06/04/07
|
 
That's the whole point of my blog
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

So you prefer a cable company monopoly...
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|
 
Not at all...
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
  
Trust No One
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
   
And when you own a government sponcered monopoly
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
    
This is very true
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
     
Why don't they hear? Read "Gulliver's Travels"
gardoglee | 06/06/07
|

Time for a telco logo burning.. hehe
Been_Done_Before | 06/04/07
|

Can you even debate this rationally?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
No George, it is you that can't look at it properly.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
  
Do you have the courage to answer the question?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
WHo's angry George, I was simply explaining why
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
    
Again, STEP UP and answer the question. Do you support Net Stupidity?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
     
Sorry again George, I won't play by your rules.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
     
You won't state your position because you know it's intellectually bankrupt
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

Take a deep breath and look at what I say about the Telco villains
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
I think you badly underestimate how
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
  
I think you're incapable of thinking rationally
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
A ratonal debate on Net Stupidity
Ron McNew | 06/04/07
|
    
That's that Net Stupidity myth
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
     
Net Stupidity myth
Ron McNew | 06/04/07
|
   
This is not about "rational".
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
    
I don't need that kind of experience in ignorance and refusal to answer a q
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
     
Ignorance??? Listen your horses behind.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
|
     
George, you waste your time debating with this critter.
B.O.F.H. | 06/04/07
|
     
It's just like debating someone who hates so MS with a passion
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
    
Yes...
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|
     
BTW...
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|
  
It's not going to happen...
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|

Astute and we written
Linux User 147560 | 06/04/07
|

I, too, agree (picking jaw up off the keyboard)
Mercutio_Viz | 06/04/07
|
Rationale?
dragosani | 06/04/07
|

Does anyone think it's irrational to call Ed Whitacre stupid?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
Jumping off bridges
dragosani | 06/04/07
|
  
There's only 2 whole pages dedicated to why Whitacre is wrong
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
    
Yes, and you're trolling again
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
Trolling?
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
George, you make me laugh
neil.matthews@... | 06/04/07
|

Looks like I am not the only one
dragosani | 06/04/07
|

Are you so shallow? Are you telling me Ed Whitacre isn't ignorant?
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
i have to agree Ed Whitacre is a greedy moron (NT)
SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
|
 
Nope. It's name-calling...
D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
|
  
Guess you didn't read page 1 or 2
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
Mr. Whitacre was, of course, correct...
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|

You should read the definition of the Internet again
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
He said he wanted to charge Google...
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|
  
No, he is not saying what I'm saying. You do not understand the issue.
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
Reiterating the quote from Mr, Whitacre:
Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
|
    
He's saying there isn't a mechanism now, and that Google doesn't pay fair
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
     
Let's try an example...
Anton Philidor | 06/05/07
|
     
Anton, you're demonstrating more proof that you don't understand the issue.
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
Re: Let's try an example...
none none | 06/05/07
|
     
Approaching an answer
Anton Philidor | 06/06/07
|
     
Re: Approaching an answer
none none | 06/06/07
|
    
BTW, I've personally spoken with the Telco lobby
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
     
No, but...
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|
    
Credit Card model is proposed here...
D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
|

Re: Mr. Whitacre was, of course, correct...
none none | 06/04/07
|
 
Yes you're right. Google's main application wouldn't care about 10x lag
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
Internet QoS
BubbaJ | 06/04/07
|

Ideally you would have end-to-end but you're wrong to suggest it doesn't
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
End to End
BubbaJ | 06/04/07
|
  
It appears you haven't even read the first section of my blog
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
I doubt ie read the other sections either.
nucrash | 06/04/07
|
AT&T and company have spent $175 million...
wmlundine | 06/04/07
|

AT&T is well on it's way to being a monopoly again it's all ready trying
SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
|

Which incarnation?
Mercutio_Viz | 06/04/07
|
 
The Telcos rightfully lobby against Net Stupidity, but they're wrong about
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

Rule #1; Follow the Money
wmlundine | 06/06/07
|
Routing Around the Bells
ordaj@... | 06/04/07
|
Astonishing flip-flopping, George
Mitch Ratcliffe | 06/04/07
|

Name the flip-flop. I've been against Net Stupidity all along
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
Net Neutrality is stupid.
osreinstall | 06/04/07
|

That's why I call it Net Stupidity
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
So much for your rational debate.
osreinstall | 06/04/07
|
  
Yes, and I've had to slap down both extremes
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
   
If you tick off both sides...
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
    
It's a matter of trust, or the lack thereof, rather.
D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
|
     
It's a matter of compromise to do the right thing.
osreinstall | 06/06/07
|
I want a big dumb pipe
Patrick Jones | 06/04/07
|

Big dumb pipe doesn't exist and it wouldn't work even if it did
georgeou | 06/04/07
|
 
I disagree (partially)
Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
|
  
No, you're very wrong
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
   
Maybe the difference is WHAT intellegence..
Red_Beard | 09/10/07
|

Big dumb pipe has serious drawbacks!
Mercutio_Viz | 06/05/07
|
 
The drawbacks are only
Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
|
  
Make it better for everyone
Mercutio_Viz | 06/05/07
|
   
He's already getting most of the bandwidth while paying less
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
  
That's where Net Stupidity advocates show their true ugliness
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
   
You bet George
osreinstall | 06/06/07
|
    
Exactly, he even said that doctors need to find another pipe
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
     
He ought to lay down the crack pipe.
osreinstall | 06/06/07
|
 
providers attempting to charge more for providing less
dusanmal | 06/05/07
|
  
Ah, here comes a Net Stupidity advocate
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
George you just don't get it
TonyMcS | 06/04/07
|

I agree
dragosani | 06/04/07
|

You're position is intellectually bankrupt and you know it.
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

Your position is intellectually bankrupt and you know it.
georgeou | 06/04/07
|

Logical idea, but would it work
nucrash | 06/05/07
|
 
Says you
Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
|
 
That wasn't the point
dragosani | 06/05/07
|

Re: George you just don't get it
none none | 06/05/07
|
 
QoS can't be given to everything or else it doesn't work
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
  
Re: QoS can't be given to everything or else it doesn't work
none none | 06/05/07
|
   
You just dodged the issue
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
    
Re: You just dodged the issue
none none | 06/05/07
|
     
If you give everyone QoS to all VoIP, then all applications will look like
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
Re: If you give everyone QoS to all VoIP, then all applications will look l
none none | 06/05/07
|
     
Don't put words in to my mouth, especially after the first 2 pages
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
Re: Don't put words in to my mouth, especially after the first 2 pages
none none | 06/06/07
|
George, I will give it one more try.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|

Comparing a high phone bill to pedastry is a bit much.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
 
Yes I agree, but its an analogy.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
  
Small ISP deaths
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|
   
Yes you are right, they WERE ordered to open access
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
Are you sure?
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|
     
But you forget, telcos are a government backed MONOPOLY
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
  
Re: Yes I agree, but its an analogy.
none none | 06/05/07
|
   
Please do NOT listen to me, in fact
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
  
I agree again (wished you had used a different analogy)
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
   
Yes and no.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
Facts play a role in reason. Feelings play a role in zealotry.
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
And that my friend is the foolish view of youth.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
Feelings and Restraint
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
     
For the record, I don't hate the telcos.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
Reason??? Is the planet Vulcan or something?
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
Feelings do not matter in court, where this is going.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
And again you are wrong.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
Not really.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
YEs really...
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
You are illogical.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
I'll give you one more try
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
Don't know nor care.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
  
Not a good one.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
   
The problem with your argument
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
You don't have an argument, really.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
And you misunderstand...
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
     
Oops. Should go here.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
You are assuming that a reasonable....
fredfarkwater@... | 06/06/07
|
     
Now somebody has a chip on their shoulder.
osreinstall | 06/06/07
|
    
Nope.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
You might find some good links to backup your argument here
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|
Bigger question - why do Socialists rule the schools?
stano360 | 06/05/07
|

No
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
 
Actually
dougbert | 06/06/07
|
Everyone STOP and answer a few questions please.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|

You just filled a page with bogus information from top to bottom
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
 
Well then show me big boy.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
  
You can ask the question. You just can't expect anyone to take you serious
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
   
And you have no answers at all.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
It will be everywhere without QoS.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
Re: It will be everywhere without QoS.
none none | 06/05/07
|
     
Bill doesn't address bundling. Just a unmanaged pipe.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
     
Re: Bill doesn't address bundling. Just a unmanaged pipe.
none none | 06/05/07
|
     
You read too fast.
osreinstall | 06/05/07
|
    
I spent most of page 2 slapping the Telcos around
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
  
Boo
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
   
Yes, I am getting fed up with his insults.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
I am just curios
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
     
One too many on me!
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
  
Fiber
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|
   
And so I ask again, where is the bottleneck.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
    
Again, you need to answer where's the big dumb pipe first
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
     
we only use a small fraction of the capacity of the fiber backbones
jjarman | 06/06/07
|
  
Dumb roads
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|
   
Sorry but that doesn't exist today.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
 
I think his position has been stated
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
 
Re: You just filled a page with bogus information from top to bottom
none none | 06/05/07
|
  
Instead of doing your parrot act, answer the question.
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|

Lets ask anotrher tough question...
No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
|
 
Greed?
dragosani | 06/05/07
|
 
You're conflating IPTV with this issue
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
DC-Boston
HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
|

You've pin pointed the problem in America
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
so give it a new name
auburn turtle | 06/05/07
|

Read page 2 again and tell me if I support NO regulations
georgeou | 06/05/07
|
Non-Discriminatory is the Real Issue!
lcarliner@... | 06/06/07
|
Tragedy of the Common Internet
progan01@... | 06/06/07
|

Pretty well written, but I'm still not sure what you're proposing
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
 
Proposal
progan01@... | 06/07/07
|
  
See this blog from last year on "The truth about IPv6"
georgeou | 06/07/07
|

Look at Lessig
neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
|
 
Limitations of Lessig
progan01@... | 06/07/07
|
Just consider
p.vinnie@... | 06/06/07
|
Well Said!
gafisher@... | 06/06/07
|
Big Corps Want a Monopoly over the Net
bcroner | 06/06/07
|
QoS is different
neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
|

Video distribution doesn't work the way you think
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
 
Video distribution doesn't work the way you think
neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
|
  
Sorry, but you're clueless
georgeou | 06/06/07
|
   
Right back at ya
neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
|
   
A rational debate
neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
|
    
Misuse of the basic terms of the debate
richardbennett | 06/07/07
|
    
What's the problem?
georgeou | 06/07/07
|
     
What's the problem?
neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
|
     
No business always gives same prices
georgeou | 06/07/07
|
brought to you by george's corporate sponsors...more circular logic at 11
jjarman | 06/06/07
|
To osreinstall...
fredfarkwater@... | 06/06/07
|

Actually George brought them up in the bill.
osreinstall | 06/06/07
|
 
This is a tech site...uhh, duhh....
fredfarkwater@... | 06/07/07
|
  
Well it tries to anyway.
osreinstall | 06/07/07
|
no longer wondering
llval@... | 06/06/07
|
By Law...
ZenaPrincess | 06/06/07
|
FCC regulation "Versus" Unregulated Commerce
rflulling@... | 06/07/07
|
Net neutrality vs Net st(OU)pidity
wmlundine | 06/07/07
|

maybe....
ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
|
Line or copy editor needed
Sioen | 06/12/07
|

Sorry about your commas, but there are more important things
georgeou | 09/08/07
|
RE: A rational debate on Net Neutrality
dotkayk@... | 11/07/07
|

Only "Rational" if you Believe Faux Noize is "Fair & Balanced"
drprod@... | 11/07/07
|