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June 4th, 2007

A rational debate on Net Neutrality

Posted by George Ou @ 5:40 am

Categories: Infrastructure, Mobile/Wireless, Net Neutrality, Networking, News, Technology policy

Tags: Google Inc., QoS, Internet, Network, Prioritization, Customer, Net Neutrality, Service, Carrier, George Ou

In Focus » See more posts on: Net Neutrality, Net Neutrality

The subject of Net Neutrality has become so politicized that it’s almost impossible to have a rational debate on the subject. Even the term “Net Neutrality” has become a political slogan that is often deliberately vague to hide its true meaning. Is it even possible to have a rational debate on Net Neutrality? That’s what I’m going to try and do here and this won’t be your typical Net Neutrality article that takes one side or the other because it will slap down the villains on both sides of the debate. I’m going to try and step back and share with you my thousand foot view of the whole war on Net Neutrality.

How the Internet really works:
The Internet is based on users only paying for their on-ramp access and nothing more. This is the way that the Internet has always worked on a “best practice” and contractual basis. The “Internet” also isn’t the single entity that people often perceive it to be; it’s actually an inter-network (hence the name Internet) or a network made up of many private networks that route Internet data amongst each other on a contractual basis. Large carriers who own chunks of the Internet don’t charge other large carriers in exchange for using each other’s infrastructure and this is called settlement-free peering. In other words, you carry my traffic and I’ll carry yours and everyone pays for their share of the Internet infrastructure.

If there’s an imbalance in the amount of traffic that one carrier passes through on behalf of another carrier, the larger carrier carrying more of the data will charge the smaller carrier. On very rare occasions the smaller carrier will balk and refuse to pay and the connection between carriers is severed and customers will get cut off from each other. Ultimately one side or the other blinks and sometimes it’s the bigger carrier quickly caving in because they’re afraid of the legislature stepping in to regulate the unregulated Internet if the stalemate doesn’t get solved in a very high-profile case where customers are cut off. But at no time do carriers ever get to directly charge customers who are attached to other carrier’s networks for their Internet for traversing their network because revenue is already shared when the smaller carrier pays a portion of their revenues to the larger carriers or it’s settlement-free because of mutual sharing.

The myth that the Internet has always been a dumb pipe:
One of the most common arguments I hear is that the Internet has always been and continues to be a dumb pipe and there is no intelligent packet prioritization on the Internet. That simply is false and there have long been contractual agreements QoS (Quality of Service) packet prioritization for business customers. These agreements allow customers to pay a premium to permit a certain percentage of traffic (usually a small percent) to get traffic prioritization across a carrier’s network.

Global Crossing for example has a premium service for its customers which it actually extends to other partnering networks using settlement-free contracts. Some of these partners are in Asia and they prioritize Global Crossing packets in exchange for Global Crossing prioritizes their packets in return. This is identical to the settlement-free connectivity I mentioned earlier only this extends the concept to cover prioritization as well. This is end-to-end QoS service which covers off-ramp QoS service without the customer directly paying the off-ramp remote network.

If we had to pay for access to other networks on the Internet, then we might as well go back to AOL or CompuServe circa 1994 when you had pockets of proprietary networks that no one else could reach and that’s the last thing we want. The minute you start demanding payment from customers of other networks, the Internet becomes fragmented because it’s becomes a metered closed Network. Even if you could afford to pay, it would be a logistical nightmare to keep up with all the various entities you have to pay.

Just like how we don’t directly pay to route and connect to other carriers on the Internet, we wouldn’t directly pay other remote carriers for prioritization services. We pay our own carrier once for connectivity (and premium prioritization service if we choose to do so) just once and let our carrier work out the dirty details with the other carriers on the Internet of whether they need to exchange money or not. This is how an intelligent but fair and open Internet works.

<Next page - Dealing with Internet Carrier abuse>

Pages: 1 2 3

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 259 Talkback(s)
Only "Rational" if you Believe Faux Noize is "Fair & Balanced"
Exactly, dotkayk - this reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's namecalling as "rational debate"! Ou's already shown his true colors here, hasn't he?

If Big Telco wants us to pay more for better service,... (Read the rest)
Posted by: drprod@... Posted on: 11/07/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
There is no pending "net neutrality" legislation  WiredGuy | 06/04/07
It's on hold. Remember that Markey is in charge now  georgeou | 06/04/07
Also note that Markey wants to ban less than 2 mbps as broadband  georgeou | 06/04/07
Compared to other countries, no it can't  ordaj@... | 06/04/07
Say what?  Stuka | 06/04/07
Re: Broadband  BubbaJ | 06/04/07
yes...  Stuka | 06/04/07
Broadband Definition  BubbaJ | 06/04/07
Yes, that is the technical definition  dragosani | 06/04/07
You cannot compare  Stuka | 06/04/07
I wasn't debating against that at all  dragosani | 06/04/07
Already dumped billions. Should have it by now  ordaj@... | 06/04/07
Total bunk...  civikminded | 06/04/07
Canada...  Stuka | 06/04/07
and most other country's make you pay buy how much bandwidth you use  SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
Quote from Consumer Federation report  civikminded | 06/04/07
You're comparing countries smaller than one state!  Spoon Jabber | 06/04/07
Re: You cannot compare  none none | 06/04/07
Re: Canada...  none none | 06/04/07
Billions = $3/person/billion  gardoglee | 06/06/07
House Committee wants GAO to investigate US broadband  ordaj@... | 06/04/07
Have you tried paying for phone calls in Germany or S. Korea?  georgeou | 06/04/07
How about calling to South Korea  nucrash | 06/05/07
Vonage is banned from S. Korea  georgeou | 06/05/07
In India they have their own way  p.vinnie@... | 06/06/07
Who is "they"? - that has banned VoIP for US soldiers  WiredGuy | 06/05/07
No -- most likely the So Korean Telco.  pob63rec | 06/05/07
Do you think that gov regulation will help?  Spoon Jabber | 06/05/07
The S. Korean government just banned our Soldiers from using services like  georgeou | 06/05/07
That's not a good move by Korean Telcos  WiredGuy | 06/05/07
Simple, just put an access control list blocking all of Vonage servers  georgeou | 06/05/07
George, McCain is your man!  WiredGuy | 06/05/07
Don't put words in to his mouth or mine  georgeou | 06/05/07
Never tried to put words in your mouth, or Sen. McCain's  WiredGuy | 06/05/07
You said he and I supports the carrier's right to block competitors  georgeou | 06/05/07
but georgeou if AT&T says well were going to charge this  SO.CAL Guy | 06/05/07
George, I don't think you are looking in the right place.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
I agree (WOW)  dragosani | 06/04/07
I Agree!  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
And how many times have the FCC fouled up.  nucrash | 06/04/07
Focus on the wrong problem  dragosani | 06/04/07
Sorry that I was misinformed by a poor media  nucrash | 06/04/07
What the market will bear.  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
On a Personal Note  nucrash | 06/04/07
Uh... Anton  Linux User 147560 | 06/04/07
Again you're not addressing the issue  georgeou | 06/04/07
LU, I think you wrote to agree with me.  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
Agreed  NetArch. | 06/04/07
That's the whole point of my blog  georgeou | 06/04/07
So you prefer a cable company monopoly...  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
Not at all...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
Trust No One  nucrash | 06/04/07
And when you own a government sponcered monopoly  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
This is very true  nucrash | 06/04/07
Why don't they hear? Read "Gulliver's Travels"  gardoglee | 06/06/07
Time for a telco logo burning.. hehe  Been_Done_Before | 06/04/07
Can you even debate this rationally?  georgeou | 06/04/07
No George, it is you that can't look at it properly.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
Do you have the courage to answer the question?  georgeou | 06/04/07
WHo's angry George, I was simply explaining why  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
Again, STEP UP and answer the question. Do you support Net Stupidity?  georgeou | 06/04/07
Sorry again George, I won't play by your rules.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
You won't state your position because you know it's intellectually bankrupt  georgeou | 06/04/07
Take a deep breath and look at what I say about the Telco villains  georgeou | 06/04/07
I think you badly underestimate how  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
I think you're incapable of thinking rationally  georgeou | 06/04/07
A ratonal debate on Net Stupidity  Ron McNew | 06/04/07
That's that Net Stupidity myth  georgeou | 06/04/07
Net Stupidity myth  Ron McNew | 06/04/07
This is not about "rational".  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
I don't need that kind of experience in ignorance and refusal to answer a q  georgeou | 06/04/07
Ignorance??? Listen your horses behind.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/04/07
George, you waste your time debating with this critter.  B.O.F.H. | 06/04/07
It's just like debating someone who hates so MS with a passion  georgeou | 06/04/07
Yes...  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
BTW...  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
It's not going to happen...  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
Astute and we written  Linux User 147560 | 06/04/07
I, too, agree (picking jaw up off the keyboard)  Mercutio_Viz | 06/04/07
Rationale?  dragosani | 06/04/07
Does anyone think it's irrational to call Ed Whitacre stupid?  georgeou | 06/04/07
Jumping off bridges  dragosani | 06/04/07
There's only 2 whole pages dedicated to why Whitacre is wrong  georgeou | 06/04/07
 dragosani | 06/05/07
Yes, and you're trolling again  georgeou | 06/05/07
Trolling?  dragosani | 06/05/07
George, you make me laugh  neil.matthews@... | 06/04/07
Looks like I am not the only one  dragosani | 06/04/07
Are you so shallow? Are you telling me Ed Whitacre isn't ignorant?  georgeou | 06/04/07
i have to agree Ed Whitacre is a greedy moron (NT)  SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
Nope. It's name-calling...  D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
Guess you didn't read page 1 or 2  georgeou | 06/06/07
Mr. Whitacre was, of course, correct...  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
You should read the definition of the Internet again  georgeou | 06/04/07
He said he wanted to charge Google...  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
No, he is not saying what I'm saying. You do not understand the issue.  georgeou | 06/04/07
Reiterating the quote from Mr, Whitacre:  Anton Philidor | 06/04/07
He's saying there isn't a mechanism now, and that Google doesn't pay fair  georgeou | 06/04/07
Let's try an example...  Anton Philidor | 06/05/07
Anton, you're demonstrating more proof that you don't understand the issue.  georgeou | 06/05/07
Re: Let's try an example...  none none | 06/05/07
Approaching an answer  Anton Philidor | 06/06/07
Re: Approaching an answer  none none | 06/06/07
BTW, I've personally spoken with the Telco lobby  georgeou | 06/04/07
No, but...  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
Credit Card model is proposed here...  D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
Re: Mr. Whitacre was, of course, correct...  none none | 06/04/07
Yes you're right. Google's main application wouldn't care about 10x lag  georgeou | 06/05/07
Internet QoS  BubbaJ | 06/04/07
Ideally you would have end-to-end but you're wrong to suggest it doesn't  georgeou | 06/04/07
End to End  BubbaJ | 06/04/07
It appears you haven't even read the first section of my blog  georgeou | 06/04/07
I doubt ie read the other sections either.  nucrash | 06/04/07
AT&T and company have spent $175 million...  wmlundine | 06/04/07
AT&T is well on it's way to being a monopoly again it's all ready trying  SO.CAL Guy | 06/04/07
Which incarnation?  Mercutio_Viz | 06/04/07
The Telcos rightfully lobby against Net Stupidity, but they're wrong about  georgeou | 06/04/07
Rule #1; Follow the Money  wmlundine | 06/06/07
Routing Around the Bells  ordaj@... | 06/04/07
Astonishing flip-flopping, George  Mitch RatcliffeZDNet Moderator | 06/04/07
Name the flip-flop. I've been against Net Stupidity all along  georgeou | 06/04/07
Net Neutrality is stupid.  osreinstall | 06/04/07
That's why I call it Net Stupidity  georgeou | 06/04/07
So much for your rational debate.  osreinstall | 06/04/07
Yes, and I've had to slap down both extremes  georgeou | 06/04/07
If you tick off both sides...  osreinstall | 06/05/07
It's a matter of trust, or the lack thereof, rather.  D. W. Bierbaum | 06/06/07
It's a matter of compromise to do the right thing.  osreinstall | 06/06/07
I want a big dumb pipe  Patrick Jones | 06/04/07
Big dumb pipe doesn't exist and it wouldn't work even if it did  georgeou | 06/04/07
I disagree (partially)  Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
No, you're very wrong  georgeou | 06/06/07
Maybe the difference is WHAT intellegence..  Red_Beard | 09/10/07
Big dumb pipe has serious drawbacks!  Mercutio_Viz | 06/05/07
The drawbacks are only  Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
Make it better for everyone  Mercutio_Viz | 06/05/07
He's already getting most of the bandwidth while paying less  georgeou | 06/06/07
That's where Net Stupidity advocates show their true ugliness  georgeou | 06/06/07
You bet George  osreinstall | 06/06/07
Exactly, he even said that doctors need to find another pipe  georgeou | 06/06/07
He ought to lay down the crack pipe.  osreinstall | 06/06/07
providers attempting to charge more for providing less  dusanmal | 06/05/07
Ah, here comes a Net Stupidity advocate  georgeou | 06/06/07
George you just don't get it  TonyMcS | 06/04/07
I agree  dragosani | 06/04/07
You're position is intellectually bankrupt and you know it.  georgeou | 06/04/07
Your position is intellectually bankrupt and you know it.  georgeou | 06/04/07
Logical idea, but would it work  nucrash | 06/05/07
Says you  Patrick Jones | 06/05/07
That wasn't the point  dragosani | 06/05/07
Re: George you just don't get it  none none | 06/05/07
QoS can't be given to everything or else it doesn't work  georgeou | 06/05/07
Re: QoS can't be given to everything or else it doesn't work  none none | 06/05/07
You just dodged the issue  georgeou | 06/05/07
Re: You just dodged the issue  none none | 06/05/07
If you give everyone QoS to all VoIP, then all applications will look like  georgeou | 06/05/07
Re: If you give everyone QoS to all VoIP, then all applications will look l  none none | 06/05/07
Don't put words in to my mouth, especially after the first 2 pages  georgeou | 06/05/07
Re: Don't put words in to my mouth, especially after the first 2 pages  none none | 06/06/07
George, I will give it one more try.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Comparing a high phone bill to pedastry is a bit much.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
Yes I agree, but its an analogy.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Small ISP deaths  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
Yes you are right, they WERE ordered to open access  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Are you sure?  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
But you forget, telcos are a government backed MONOPOLY  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Re: Yes I agree, but its an analogy.  none none | 06/05/07
Please do NOT listen to me, in fact  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
I agree again (wished you had used a different analogy)  dragosani | 06/05/07
Yes and no.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Facts play a role in reason. Feelings play a role in zealotry.  georgeou | 06/05/07
And that my friend is the foolish view of youth.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Feelings and Restraint  dragosani | 06/05/07
For the record, I don't hate the telcos.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Reason??? Is the planet Vulcan or something?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Feelings do not matter in court, where this is going.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
And again you are wrong.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Not really.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
YEs really...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
You are illogical.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
I'll give you one more try  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Don't know nor care.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
Not a good one.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
The problem with your argument  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
You don't have an argument, really.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
And you misunderstand...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Oops. Should go here.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
You are assuming that a reasonable....  fredfarkwater@... | 06/06/07
Now somebody has a chip on their shoulder.  osreinstall | 06/06/07
Nope.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
You might find some good links to backup your argument here  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
Bigger question - why do Socialists rule the schools?  stano360 | 06/05/07
No  dragosani | 06/05/07
Actually  dougbert | 06/06/07
Everyone STOP and answer a few questions please.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
You just filled a page with bogus information from top to bottom  georgeou | 06/05/07
Well then show me big boy.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
You can ask the question. You just can't expect anyone to take you serious  georgeou | 06/05/07
And you have no answers at all.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
It will be everywhere without QoS.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
Re: It will be everywhere without QoS.  none none | 06/05/07
Bill doesn't address bundling. Just a unmanaged pipe.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
Re: Bill doesn't address bundling. Just a unmanaged pipe.  none none | 06/05/07
You read too fast.  osreinstall | 06/05/07
I spent most of page 2 slapping the Telcos around  georgeou | 06/05/07
Boo  dragosani | 06/05/07
Yes, I am getting fed up with his insults.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
I am just curios  dragosani | 06/05/07
One too many on me!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Fiber  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
And so I ask again, where is the bottleneck.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Again, you need to answer where's the big dumb pipe first  georgeou | 06/05/07
we only use a small fraction of the capacity of the fiber backbones  jjarman | 06/06/07
Dumb roads  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
Sorry but that doesn't exist today.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
I think his position has been stated  dragosani | 06/05/07
Re: You just filled a page with bogus information from top to bottom  none none | 06/05/07
Instead of doing your parrot act, answer the question.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Lets ask anotrher tough question...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 06/05/07
Greed?  dragosani | 06/05/07
You're conflating IPTV with this issue  georgeou | 06/05/07
DC-Boston  HMTKSteve | 06/05/07
You've pin pointed the problem in America  georgeou | 06/05/07
so give it a new name  auburn turtle | 06/05/07
Read page 2 again and tell me if I support NO regulations  georgeou | 06/05/07
Non-Discriminatory is the Real Issue!  lcarliner@... | 06/06/07
Tragedy of the Common Internet  progan01@... | 06/06/07
Pretty well written, but I'm still not sure what you're proposing  georgeou | 06/06/07
Proposal  progan01@... | 06/07/07
See this blog from last year on "The truth about IPv6"  georgeou | 06/07/07
Look at Lessig  neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
Limitations of Lessig  progan01@... | 06/07/07
Just consider  p.vinnie@... | 06/06/07
Well Said!  gafisher@... | 06/06/07
Big Corps Want a Monopoly over the Net  bcroner | 06/06/07
QoS is different  neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
Video distribution doesn't work the way you think  georgeou | 06/06/07
Video distribution doesn't work the way you think  neutral.netizen | 06/06/07
Sorry, but you're clueless  georgeou | 06/06/07
Right back at ya  neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
A rational debate  neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
Misuse of the basic terms of the debate  richardbennett | 06/07/07
What's the problem?  georgeou | 06/07/07
What's the problem?  neutral.netizen | 06/07/07
No business always gives same prices  georgeou | 06/07/07
brought to you by george's corporate sponsors...more circular logic at 11  jjarman | 06/06/07
To osreinstall...  fredfarkwater@... | 06/06/07
Actually George brought them up in the bill.  osreinstall | 06/06/07
This is a tech site...uhh, duhh....  fredfarkwater@... | 06/07/07
Well it tries to anyway.  osreinstall | 06/07/07
no longer wondering  llval@... | 06/06/07
By Law...  ZenaPrincess | 06/06/07
FCC regulation "Versus" Unregulated Commerce  rflulling@... | 06/07/07
Net neutrality vs Net st(OU)pidity  wmlundine | 06/07/07
maybe....  ogmanx@... | 06/08/07
Line or copy editor needed  Sioen | 06/12/07
Sorry about your commas, but there are more important things  georgeou | 09/08/07
RE: A rational debate on Net Neutrality  dotkayk@... | 11/07/07
Only "Rational" if you Believe Faux Noize is "Fair & Balanced"  drprod@... | 11/07/07

What do you think?

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