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August 20th, 2007

Why watermarking is a bigger devil than DRM

Posted by George Ou @ 2:20 am

Categories: Apple, Consumer electronics, Microsoft, News, Security

Tags: Digital-rights Management, Music, George Ou

In Focus » See more posts on: DRM

There’s been much news lately about the record industry getting ready to give up on DRM. DRM (Digital Rights Management or some call it Digital Restrictions Management) is a form of copy protection that protects the rights of content owners and restricts the usage of the customers it it’s probably one of the most hated technologies in the consumer world. That hatred doesn’t necessarily stem from a fundamental opposition to copy protection; it’s because DRM impinges on the consumer’s right to fair use. So when news came that record companies are looking at dumping DRM, consumers cheered. All it takes is a single stolen credit card buying a bunch of songs and uploading it to break the entire schemeBut we might be celebrating a bit early because the record companies are sneaking in a bigger devil in the form of watermarking. This was confirmed by Wired Listening Post.

You can say a lot of bad things about DRM, but one thing it didn’t do was ruin the quality of the content. Watermarking advocates will tell you that their technology is “inaudible” or “invisible” to the human ears or eyes, but that’s fundamentally impossible if the watermarking is to be effective. If the watermarking was truly inaudible, then it can be removed through analog filtering without affecting the quality of the image or audio. Since that would make the watermarking useless, it usually is visible or audible which means you’ve irreparably changed the content. It’s bad enough that downloaded music and video are worse than audio CDs or DVDs (even so-called HD video downloads are worse than DVD quality) because the bitrates are too low, but mucking it up with watermarking is just too much to bear.

One other potential usage of watermarking is user tracking. A. L. Friedman (writer for Contentinople) says that there will be no user tracking. That may very well be the case initially since music would have to be individually encoded for each customer, but it doesn’t rule it out in the future. Friedman noted that some of these fears are rooted in Apple’s embedding of the buyer’s name in the DRM-free music from EMI. The justification for these watermarks which are unique to each track but not unique to the user is to track which songs are being pirated on peer-to-peer networks like BitTorrent and how often they’re traded. But if that’s all they want to do, then it would be just as easy to leave the watermark out of the track and simply track the hash of the file.

Quick definition of hash: A hash is a number created by a hash function from a data file. This number is effectively a digest of the original file that can be used as a digital fingerprint for identification or integrity checking purposes. Hashes generated from quality hash functions like SHA-256 are for all intents and purposes unique. Hashes aren’t truly unique, but they’re unique enough that the odds of finding a different file that generates the same hash are astronomical. A good hash function is resilient enough that even the best crypto researchers in the world can’t find two files with the same hash.

While I don’t particularly care for DRM, I’ll put up with it like most consumers. I’m not even so sure I have a problem with my name being embedded in the music file since it doesn’t restrict me from doing legal things with my content so long as the record companies have to prove I uploaded it illegally and that it wasn’t merely a case of theft. But I definitely have a problem with my music being polluted with watermarks no matter how supposedly inaudible they are.

[Update 3:05PM - There's some debate as to whether watermarking causes perceptible noise or not and I think that misses the whole point. If it's not perceptible, then it can be stripped out and watermarking is pointless. If it is perceptible then I don't want it. But the most compelling argument against this entire watermarking scheme is that all it takes is a single stolen credit card buying a bunch of songs and uploading it to break the entire scheme. The whole scheme is pointless.]

Is watermarking worse than DRM?

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George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 297 Talkback(s)
Here's what I'd watermark in the file...
The question becomes one of deterrence. In order to deter someone from putting your media files up, there has to be an immediate and costly penalty for doing so, one that doesn't cost more to enforce... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Ad Astra Posted on: 09/19/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
One question  tombalablomba | 08/20/07
Obviously the hash/checksum would be the same  georgeou | 08/20/07
Absurd and Impossible! How could it be?  jjarman | 08/21/07
Yes, of course  Bob.Kerns | 08/21/07
i agree, thanks for the intelligent reply!  jjarman | 08/21/07
Any given song would have the same fingerprint  Logics | 08/22/07
while clever, unfortunatly untrue, look it up  jjarman | 08/22/07
Fingerprinting  Bob.Kerns | 08/22/07
robust audio "fingerprinting", very different purpose, extracted not added  jjarman | 08/22/07
but then again, you probably already know all this  jjarman | 08/22/07
Really cool...  bitplane | 08/22/07
yeah  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
Artists need to stand up to this  phburks | 08/20/07
Why should they?  nucrash | 08/20/07
I'd rather have DRM then  georgeou | 08/20/07
These both seem like stripable items  nucrash | 08/20/07
hash mark/drm  merc2dogs` | 08/20/07
I have a simliar story  nucrash | 08/20/07
...and a bottle of rum  lauren.glenn@... | 08/23/07
Music Library  cheesyone | 08/21/07
Buy Dream Theater's Systematic Chaos CD  lauren.glenn@... | 08/23/07
The best, cheapest music  grail@... | 08/21/07
Because artists make very little on sales  big red one | 08/21/07
Hmmm, because it's not their music that's being sold  maldain | 08/21/07
An artist cares about his/her works of art.  phburks | 08/22/07
Chances are you already have if you ....  ShadeTree | 08/20/07
Slim chance  voska | 08/20/07
Done!  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Tainted  adr5@... | 08/21/07
If they can hear it they'll care.  phburks | 08/22/07
Ou is wrong again  frgough | 08/20/07
Additional note  frgough | 08/20/07
George didnt study law...  mrlinux | 08/20/07
please please please ...  s_souche | 08/20/07
You're thinking of Nyquist more than Shannon [nt]  jacarter3 | 08/20/07
sampling theorem  s_souche | 08/20/07
60KHz or 600  reedjjjr | 08/21/07
Doesn't change the theory  frgough | 08/20/07
And..  slopoke | 08/20/07
Back to DRM  blackRiver | 08/20/07
One tiny obstacle  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
My point was that either you can hear it or you can't  georgeou | 08/20/07
How?  TripleII | 08/20/07
You just told us how.  slopoke | 08/20/07
1/2 the story  TripleII | 08/20/07
You're thinking DRM  frgough | 08/20/07
Nice try, wrong math  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Answering the wrong question  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Where did you get the forensic tool to reverse-engineer?  Resuna | 08/21/07
does not follow  Resuna | 08/21/07
Hamming distance proves Ou's original premise  warren@... | 08/21/07
Can't hear it, but maybe worthless, or evil  Bob.Kerns | 08/21/07
I was thinking the same thing myself...  jjarman | 08/21/07
I really appreciate the quality and thought in your replies to this article  jjarman | 08/21/07
Hypocritical? Where is the Proof?  jjarman | 08/21/07
To filter it out you would have to....  DCMann | 08/23/07
Question  andrewjg | 08/20/07
An example  frgough | 08/20/07
You not attacking the argument  voska | 08/20/07
See my Proof in the pudding response below  TripleII | 08/20/07
Yes but.  slopoke | 08/20/07
What's to stop someone from striping it  voska | 08/20/07
I've tried image watermarking before and it sucks  georgeou | 08/20/07
George, how are you doing it?  TripleII | 08/20/07
Percetible to what?  frgough | 08/20/07
How's that stop the pirates though?  voska | 08/20/07
How do you prevent theft?  danson@... | 08/21/07
The modifications happen throughout the song  georgeou | 08/20/07
It looks like you need a course in signals  Linux Geek | 08/20/07
Imperfect signal  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Then that would be a worthless watermark  georgeou | 08/20/07
No, George not worthless any more than locking a car door is worthless  Absolutely | 08/21/07
All CP is worthless.  NeuromancerLV | 08/21/07
Almost all forms of protection are bypassable by experts...  jjarman | 08/21/07
typo correcion  jjarman | 08/21/07
Read the article  zclayton2 | 08/21/07
no difference + no difference + no difference = a difference  bportlock | 08/20/07
SNR, part III  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Yagotta, your "noise level" ratio is nonsense  bmerc | 08/21/07
Encoding  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/21/07
Big bits, little bits  Bob.Kerns | 08/21/07
Typo alert!  Bob.Kerns | 08/22/07
Exactly  nucrash | 08/20/07
subliminal messages are still within the ...  mrlinux | 08/20/07
Quiet please!!!  slopoke | 08/20/07
Now I have a sudden urge to go see Hannah Montana  nucrash | 08/20/07
Think about it for a second  voska | 08/20/07
Not exactly  frgough | 08/20/07
That's my point  voska | 08/20/07
Interesting question  frgough | 08/20/07
You're right  voska | 08/20/07
The fundamental difference  frgough | 08/20/07
There's an easier way to track music or videos. It's called a hash.  georgeou | 08/20/07
Yeah, but isn't that easy to defeat?  blackRiver | 08/20/07
Easy vs. effective  frgough | 08/20/07
Won't work.  slopoke | 08/20/07
Watermarks don't work either, but it ruins the music  georgeou | 08/20/07
I say we call the RIAA  nucrash | 08/21/07
You miss his whole point  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Two arguments  frgough | 08/20/07
I disagree  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
-60,000 dB  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
re: -60,000 dB  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Definitions  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Sorting through the technobabble  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Rosetta stone  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
re: Rosetta stone  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
taking the analogy too far  frgough | 08/20/07
re: taking the analogy too far  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
See my challenge at the end  TripleII | 08/20/07
Broken syllogism  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
It isn't "easy" to most.  Absolutely | 08/21/07
You missed the point  bmerc | 08/21/07
Does it matter if Ou is wrong or right?  Narg | 08/21/07
you missed his point entirely  bluefox83 | 08/21/07
Which human's detection?  Weldon@... | 08/21/07
frgough is wrong again  grail@... | 08/21/07
They STILL dont get it...  supercharlie | 08/20/07
You still don't get it  s_souche | 08/20/07
I don't think can work with DRM  voska | 08/20/07
getting back to why we aren't buying in the first place  shraven | 08/21/07
lol  KTLA | 08/20/07
Correction, unrestricted and unpolluted music is right answer  georgeou | 08/20/07
Now that I agree with.  jjarman | 08/21/07
One Illegal SCAM replace by another illegal SCAM  Mectron | 08/20/07
Not illegal  KTLA | 08/20/07
I am sure he meant Immoral  nucrash | 08/20/07
No it isn't  KTLA | 08/20/07
Much like assigning you a Passport  nucrash | 08/20/07
Message has been deleted.  shraven | 08/21/07
Nope  KTLA | 08/21/07
I am in the pro watermarking camp  TripleII | 08/20/07
Proof in the pudding  TripleII | 08/20/07
What happens if you strip it  voska | 08/20/07
It isn't worth it  TripleII | 08/20/07
I'm all for watermarks  voska | 08/20/07
You speak the truth  TripleII | 08/20/07
However  Michael Kelly | 08/20/07
question  Controlr | 08/21/07
Also, it's not the same boat  TripleII | 08/20/07
You are right in most of your points...  sashkashurik | 08/21/07
Excuse my ignorance  Michael Kelly | 08/20/07
Yes, it will be doable  TripleII | 08/20/07
Hay in a needlestack  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Questions  Patrick Jones | 08/21/07
There's a slippery slope here...  msalzberg | 08/20/07
There is a way to corrupt anything.  TripleII | 08/20/07
Then embed the username in the file  georgeou | 08/20/07
No one says they HAVE to come guns blazing  TripleII | 08/20/07
Or even better George...  mrlinux | 08/20/07
replace DRM and Watermarking with better music worth buying  lauren.glenn@... | 08/23/07
continued....  lauren.glenn@... | 08/23/07
"For all Intensive purposes"...  Steve Summers | 08/20/07
That "begs the question..."  KTLA | 08/20/07
STUPID  voska | 08/20/07
RE: STUPID  dinkosaurus | 08/21/07
exactly  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
Hashes are based on the file's data...  johnay | 08/20/07
But it still takes user action  georgeou | 08/20/07
Hash  barrie@... | 08/21/07
Whether this story is right or wrong....  BitTwiddler | 08/20/07
I fully agree....  crash89 | 08/20/07
DRM is bad, but it doesn't mess with the quality  georgeou | 08/20/07
Well they can add the watermark above...  mrlinux | 08/20/07
Again, that can be filtered out  georgeou | 08/20/07
Poor example  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Thats not the idea..purity is.  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
Who says it does?  BitTwiddler | 08/20/07
And I said that already. But I don't want even MORE degredation.  georgeou | 08/20/07
Nor does watermarking  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Again, if it can't be heard, it can be stripped  georgeou | 08/20/07
Proof by repeated assertion  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
theyll catch a few here and there  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
they only need to catch a few ...  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Link me to 44 KHz license free song  TripleII | 08/20/07
This is why the mix tape will never go away  Been_Done_Before | 08/20/07
You forgot one thing about DRM  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
A better watermark example  TripleII | 08/20/07
I don't need to hand code.  slopoke | 08/20/07
If you have the pristine copy, why did you buy it?  TripleII | 08/20/07
You miss the point.  slopoke | 08/20/07
Yes, watermarking has all the problems of DRM and worse  georgeou | 08/20/07
Being Obtuse?  TripleII | 08/20/07
You've encountered the Ou  frgough | 08/20/07
Both hands tied  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Missing the point  Richard Flude | 08/20/07
Well that's where DRM fails  voska | 08/20/07
That's the point happy  slopoke | 08/20/07
new hashes too  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
I can't access your JPEG  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
nevermind  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
That was easy  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Steganography  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
You realize of course  frgough | 08/20/07
Seriously  frgough | 08/20/07
You're a pretty bad reader... or dumb  stormculture | 08/20/07
That, or maybe  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
re: Steganography  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
It's all just mathematics  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
I'm not sure you understand the mathematics yourself  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Teach your grandmother to suck eggs  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Are we talking fixed positions or not?  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Wish I'd seen your message...  Bob.Kerns | 08/21/07
re-read shannon - one time pads & pluaisble deniability  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Steganography  joelkruissink@... | 08/21/07
I don't care for either of them  Shelendrea | 08/20/07
RIAA lawsuits part 2  cmdrrickhunter@... | 08/20/07
Watermarking *IS* DRM  rpmyers1 | 08/20/07
At some level I can agree.  TripleII | 08/20/07
It does control what you can and can't do  rpmyers1 | 08/20/07
Actually, it doesn't  TripleII | 08/20/07
Watermarking *IS* DRM  barrie@... | 08/21/07
Oops, mispoke, a better challenge  TripleII | 08/20/07
Here you go!  TripleII | 08/20/07
If they're going to all that trouble, they'll just RIP the CD  georgeou | 08/20/07
Then DO IT!  TripleII | 08/20/07
Easiest way is to steal a credit card  georgeou | 08/20/07
Again, back to DRM vs Marking  TripleII | 08/20/07
Rip all you like  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
So what? We'll just upload it.  georgeou | 08/20/07
FSVO "Angry"  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
I'd ask you to help me invent this further...  TripleII | 08/20/07
Lemme know if it is destroyed . . .  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
"Destroy" is easy  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Partially  TripleII | 08/20/07
Here's what I did  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
AM vs. FM  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Yes, mine is very crackable  TripleII | 08/20/07
Overdose  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
I think that the trained ear...  msalzberg | 08/20/07
Cool site for sharing files too  TripleII | 08/20/07
Very nice - thanks!  CobraA1 | 08/20/07
Yeah, noscript for me too  TripleII | 08/20/07
Spot this, George  Yagotta B. Kidding | 08/20/07
Yes, OK, but...  Mitch 74 | 08/22/07
As long as cd's are still being sold  zmud | 08/20/07
What's the problem?  RKristin | 08/21/07
No its not  crypt2121 | 08/21/07
learn digital  CaptOska | 08/21/07
I doubt that!  Dr_Bill | 08/21/07
I Agree Absolutely  Kromaethius | 08/21/07
I agree 100%  dmacnevin | 08/21/07
a response  CaptOska | 08/21/07
Give customer what they want  pineapplelaw@... | 08/21/07
Record companies are marginally more savvy than the MPAA  gary@... | 08/21/07
are you sure you didn't have those beers already?  shraven | 08/21/07
Movie industry is Hollywood: Music biz is Worldwide  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Sorry, George, but you're wrong on this one  Dr.C | 08/21/07
Dr. C. is right -- where is the outcry re: software SLA/EULA  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
FUDmeister Ou is at it again  comp_indiana | 08/21/07
Nonsense  vikingnyc@... | 08/21/07
Which protects IT property rights?  russell@... | 08/21/07
weak  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
Buy the CD!  gary@... | 08/21/07
Doesn't matter...  msdead | 08/21/07
hashing wont work  pcguy777 | 08/21/07
They don't care about analog filtering  Resuna | 08/21/07
No, it's "accountability"  Wizard Prang | 08/21/07
Just say no to domination  enovikoff | 08/21/07
Keeping lazy people honest  warren@... | 08/21/07
forgot first paragraph  warren@... | 08/21/07
Just as shortsighted as DRM  mikecepek | 08/21/07
Waste of time and money.  alanc5 | 08/21/07
Watermarking? Potentially far less onerous.  plettj@... | 08/21/07
fight with $$$  atomicsupergeek | 08/21/07
Perceptibility NOT same as removability  skeptic-2 | 08/21/07
"worse than audio CDs or DVDs"?  labarker | 08/21/07
Complaining about the serial number on your stereo ??  theendofhardware.com | 08/21/07
assymetric watermark??? hmmm it's just KEYS  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Ou raiser a serious issue.  wolfchen@... | 08/21/07
Still Buying CD's  wwwsupport | 08/21/07
Your survey left out an option to select...  coverlt@... | 08/21/07
astronomically small, that's whay you meant  royalstream | 08/21/07
AS IT IS  brushmaster | 08/21/07
Get REAL  dustyphoto@... | 08/21/07
Nice  Sickthing | 08/21/07
Your primary assumption is incorrect!  jjarman | 08/21/07
Recording Industry Fails to Maintain Loyalty  vancegilbert@... | 08/21/07
It's a fact! No honor amoung theives  Ole Man | 08/24/07
What to do...?  intj-astral@... | 08/21/07
Watermark is OK  chromeronin | 08/21/07
I just say no...  mikifinaz1@... | 08/21/07
Hashing worthless  pwright2@... | 08/21/07
New Copy Protection From Midas Records  pqijewul | 08/21/07
I can't belive anyone would seriously prefer DRM to watermarking!  Wolfpup | 08/22/07
Forgot to mention  Wolfpup | 08/22/07
The real issue  sarogers@... | 08/22/07
P2P Sniffing  DagonSphere | 08/22/07
This is OBVIOUS  chaz15 | 08/23/07
forensics do not equal the original  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
fingerprinting is a squeeky wheel  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Yogatta B GETS IT ...  ironicslip@... | 08/23/07
Thanks, George  blarman_z | 08/23/07
You don't question Windows-only DRM because you're a fanboy  willykreim@... | 08/24/07
With Compression, it's already crap, so a little watermarking...  Boomslang | 08/25/07
You have completely missed the point  rbird@... | 09/10/07
Here's what I'd watermark in the file...  Ad Astra | 09/19/07

What do you think?

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