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December 3rd, 2007

EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service

Posted by George Ou @ 6:29 am

Categories: Mobile/Wireless, Net Neutrality, Networking, News

Tags: Electronic Frontier Foundation, BitTorrent, Internet, Router, Network, Comcast Corp., Problem, DOCSIS, Internet Service, ACL

Updated 12/8/2007 - The EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation) last week publicly joined Free Press and Public Knowledge in recommending a metered Internet service as the alternative to Comcast’s BitTorrent throttling.  The extremist “Net Neutrality” crowd that wants to regulate the Internet with bans on per-user charges/contracts for Enhanced QoS are so busy trying to revive their cause by using the Comcast issue that they’re overlooking the fact that these three groups are trying to bring you a metered Internet service.  The media for the most part has missed the boat on what’s really going on and they present this to the public as if EFF is trying to protect the public’s interest from evil corporations.

The EFF goes as far as touting the Australian model for broadband service.  Just to be sure this isn’t some kind of mistake, I personally confirmed with EFF this is what they want.  In their report they write:

The Australian broadband market offers an illustration of how this can work in practice. The selection of Australian broadband options can be searched at http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc-plan.cfm. It includes a wide selection of plans with different peak and off-peak quotas, some with a traffic shaping after a quota has been passed and others with a wide range of per-gigabyte fees. It also includes explicitly “no set limit” plans where the ISP reserves the right to deem certain usage excessive, and more expensive, truly unlimited plans where the user can saturate their link 24/7 if they wish.

I checked out the link and a Cable broadband connection costs $40/month with a 400 MB cap and a $150/GB overage charge.  Just imagine if you accidentally left the BitTorrent client on for a weekend or if the kids use Grandma’s computer to download a bunch of videos racking up hundreds of dollars in charges.  We’re all going to have to go back to the cell phone model where we worry about peak and off/peak hours and how many megabytes we used just like we worry about how many minutes we use.

Well no thanks EFF, I as an American have no interest in paying higher prices like they do in Australia (no offense to the beautiful country of Australia and its people).  Not only does a metered Internet service plan screw the low-end users, it makes BitTorrent or any kind of peer-to-peer networking cost prohibitive.  The EFF ironically claims its standing up for BitTorrent rights when it fact it would kill it with metered Internet services.

Update 12/8/2007

The EFF has responded to me and others that I have misrepresented their position.  I’ll let you be the judge of that so here is what they sent me and what they’re telling everyone else.

The article incorrectly states that EFF endorses legislation or regulation that would force ISPs or users to offer only metered services. The EFF report actually states that the *availability* of metered access alongside “all you can eat” plans, combined with accurate advertising by ISPs, is one alternative that might solve whatever congestion issues Comcast might be having (as the language you quote in your article expressly makes clear).

Nowhere in this blog post do I state EFF would force ISPs to *only* offer metered services?  All I said was “The EFF goes as far as touting the Australian model for broadband service” as a better alternative to Comcast’s current model and I included the Australian ISP link the EFF pointed to.  The plans that came up were mostly metered plans and some were very expensive unlimited plans.  Peter Eckersley even sent me an email touting this page where you pay $65/month AUD for a plan that gives you 8 GB of “pre-paid data” during noon to midnight [Update 12/12/2007 - Peter Eckersley emailed me saying he sent me the wrong link and had meant to link to this page which is $20 cheaper.  That's slightly better but the 8GB cap is still a horrible idea].  Since you can download 8 GBs in less than 2 hours at 10 mbps, you essentially give up using any BitTorrent from noon to midnight unless you want to pay $3/GB.  Even the off-peak rates are metered so you still have to be careful to turn off your BitTorrent client after 1 hour each day.  If you want 48 GB “pre-paid data”, you need to pay $120/month AUD and $3/GB over that amount.

Now consider Comcast’s offerings which permit you to download and upload unlimited data using BitTorrent with no throttling for a flat fee of $40 per month.  You can easily download 100 GBs and upload 10 GBs per month or more and Comcast won’t stop you or charge you anything extra.  The only thing Comcast does is occasionally scale back the number of BitTorrent seed connections (dedicated server mode) you can have even though Comcast’s TOS (Terms Of Service) prohibits servers of any kind.  My ATT DSL plan is less than $20/month and I can download 8 GB per day every day and not pay a single cent on overage charges so what is the EFF thinking recommending the Australian ISP model over Comcast’s “bad” model?

The EFF says what Comcast is doing is evil and that the Australian model is the better alternative even though it’s draconian compared to what Comcast or any other American ISP is doing.  It would certainly stop the BitTorrent usage during peak hours but at what price to the user?  The Free Press and Public Knowledge also think metered Internet is a better alternative but they go a step further and want to criminalize Comcast’s current operating model and fine them trillions of dollars.  So again I ask: Who is the EFF, Free Press, and Public Knowledge serving?  The RIAA and MPAA couldn’t buy this kind of anti peer-to-peer lobbying if they tried.

<Next page - My phone debate with the EFF>

Pages: 1 2 3

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 208 Talkback(s)
Comcast ranks WORST in satisfaction, and article is dishonest scare tactic
>changes to a system that Comcast customers are happy with?

You are out of contact with reality. The University of Michigan surveys about 80,000 Americans annually to produce the American Custo... (Read the rest)
Posted by: woot@... Posted on: 03/24/08 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Radical Common Carrier Theories  DannyO_0x98 | 12/03/07
Deliver the Service  Tim Patterson | 12/03/07
You blindly support the EFF without reading their proposals?  georgeou | 12/03/07
an 'a la carte" subscription has its merits!  Linux Geek | 12/04/07
Rates creeping up are a part  gkrwc | 12/04/07
As a Comcast user, things look a little different...  Demzon | 12/04/07
Games on Comcast  gary.douglas@... | 12/04/07
I like Time Warner myself. Hate AT&T with a passion (nt)  tikigawd | 12/04/07
You might try reading the letter better  hrwaller | 12/05/07
"Do you throw out all the the EFF's ideas because of disagreeing with one"  bmerc | 12/05/07
Resurrecting the already disproven NAT strawman argument again?  Letophoro | 12/03/07
Indeed. Translation is not forgery.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
Comcast sold what they cannot supply  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
Absolutely  t_mohajir | 12/03/07
Have you read the terms of service when you sign up for Comcast?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Who can understand legalese?  t_mohajir | 12/03/07
Again, it's CLEARLY spelled out.  georgeou | 12/04/07
Not understanding the technology  DigitalFrog | 12/04/07
then why aren't you demanding competition?  big red one | 12/04/07
My housing complex prevents Comcast  georgeou | 12/04/07
Ignorant and Naive Position  kckn4fun | 12/05/07
Good luck getting past the TOS in the lawsuit  georgeou | 12/05/07
Comcast ranks WORST in satisfaction, and article is dishonest scare tactic  woot@... | 03/24/08
I'd rather have burst 6 mbps capability  georgeou | 12/03/07
But you can't have it...  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
Common sense says metered internet means death of peer-to-peer  georgeou | 12/03/07
They already are metering peer-to-peer users, why not meter everybody.  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Why Comcast doesn't want to go Metered or Throttled  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Read their terms of service  georgeou | 12/03/07
You must have me confused with someone else.  Jeffroooooo | 12/03/07
That's exactly what Comcast is doing  georgeou | 12/03/07
I see you don't believe in "user pay".  Knorthern Knight | 12/03/07
You want to be stuck in metered Internet forever?  georgeou | 12/03/07
some us remember GEie and CIS  big red one | 12/04/07
Indeed...  spyro17@... | 12/05/07
RE. Thank you for this.  Kungfoofighterx | 12/03/07
I can understand why they got mad, though.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
Thanks for reading  georgeou | 12/03/07
Thanks for Letting Us Know  Drakaran | 12/04/07
There's just no point in metering the Internet  georgeou | 12/05/07
Off Topic post for George  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
This seems likely  nucrash | 12/03/07
You are right...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Not a defect  Tim Patterson | 12/03/07
Nope...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Not the same  nucrash | 12/03/07
FWIW  Larry DignanZDNet Moderator | 12/03/07
Good Luck!!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 12/03/07
Sun told me the same thing  georgeou | 12/03/07
Seems to be a common theme in business now  Linux User 147560 | 12/04/07
i agree with you George i have friends  SO.CAL Guy | 12/03/07
The ISPs all have terms of service  georgeou | 12/03/07
What is to account for...???  nucrash | 12/03/07
you can download this software and monitor monthly bandwidth  SO.CAL Guy | 12/03/07
I assume that goes by machine  nucrash | 12/03/07
You would get stuck with a $2000 bill  georgeou | 12/03/07
Yes, but you can punish the kid  nucrash | 12/04/07
Nonsense  bmerc | 12/05/07
A word George,  Cardinal_Bill | 12/03/07
Ditto.  grinn.net | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  tom.edwards | 12/03/07
Why would you want to complicate things?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Less Socialistic  nucrash | 12/04/07
We already have tiered rates  georgeou | 12/04/07
No one can guarantee how much they will use  Leria | 12/04/07
some in Alaska already pay into metered service  cadman@... | 12/17/07
Everyone just turn on encryption for your BitTorrent client, its easy...  xunil skcor | 12/03/07
Possibly (very) bad idea  emilp | 12/03/07
Wrong...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/03/07
It's not a bandwidth issue, it's a DOCSIS issue  georgeou | 12/03/07
So it's the number of IPs rather than the bandwidth?  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/04/07
No, it's the way BitTorrent seeds behave  georgeou | 12/04/07
Argh. That was a tad on the dense side.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Also (I miss the "edit" function for posts...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Forgery of any kind is fundamentally wrong  D. T. Schmitz | 12/03/07
You're quoting me out of context  georgeou | 12/03/07
Same old go-round. Translation is NOT forgery.  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
You're wasting your time...  bmerc | 12/05/07
In Canada we have that too  voska | 12/03/07
Re: In Canada we have that too  none none | 12/03/07
Not as bad as presented  Richard Flude | 12/03/07
Metered Internet would mean the death of P2P.  georgeou | 12/03/07
You'd think that but nope  voska | 12/04/07
60 GB isn't really a limit. EFF links to Australian plans  georgeou | 12/04/07
Hold Your Bl**dy Horses, mate  goldenpirate@... | 12/04/07
George is wrong  Richard Flude | 12/04/07
60 GB isn't really a limit. EFF links to Australian plans  ian2810@... | 12/04/07
Not too bad here  technical@... | 12/04/07
One more thing, Canadian Cable broadband companies do the same thing as Com  georgeou | 12/04/07
And Sudan has the death penalty for adultery.  Letophoro | 12/04/07
You completely missed my point  georgeou | 12/04/07
Numbers, please!  Absolutely | 12/13/07
George, are you really that stupid????  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
BitTorrent 6mbps downloads and uploads are not throttled  georgeou | 12/03/07
Yes George, you really are that stupid. Comcast IS metering BitTorrent  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
If the seeders damage the network, they get throttled  georgeou | 12/03/07
It is NOT just "seeders" "damaging" the network. It is just one  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Fraud & Network Neutrality  D. T. Schmitz | 12/08/07
Without regard to QoS eh?  georgeou | 12/08/07
It is in the contract  lucky 13 | 12/03/07
The problem is, Comcast was throttling ALL BitTorrent users, no matter what  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
It is spelled out in the contract. It says "NO SERVERS"  georgeou | 12/03/07
These are not servers, this is peer-to-peer. There are many protocols where  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
It isn't "within the contract"  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
"NO SERVERS" is not in the contract (or terms/policies)...  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Who are you kidding, Robb?  richardbennett | 12/03/07
Participating in a peer-to-peer network is NOT a server. You transfer data  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Not misconception, just semantics  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
Again, it's already in the agreement and aup  lucky 13 | 12/04/07
Stolen bandwidth  jpratchios@... | 12/03/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  saltydognl@... | 12/03/07
What about my Slingbox?  jpc1958_98@... | 12/03/07
The problem is Comcast selling more bandwidth than they have. If everybody  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
Anyway you look at it, Comcast is metering BitTorren users that may be well  DonnieBoy | 12/03/07
What are you talking about?  georgeou | 12/03/07
Quite Incorrect, George -- Comcast RSTs Everyone using most P2P apps  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
You're ASSUMING this is a bandwidth issue  georgeou | 12/03/07
Well, you're relying on Richard, who said it was... but okay, answer this..  techrepublic.funchords@... | 12/03/07
Excessive SYNs is part of it  richardbennett | 12/03/07
Cable bandwidth is assymetric  Knorthern Knight | 12/03/07
Many points...  Marty R. Milette | 12/03/07
I'm happy I don't live in Russia  georgeou | 12/03/07
Oh, and thanks for your thoughtful post  georgeou | 12/03/07
George Ou...mashup master...  wmlundine | 12/03/07
wow.. disappointed with the EFF  Hobyx | 12/03/07
Not just the EFF. It's the Free Press and Public Knowledge too  georgeou | 12/03/07
There you go again George  notsofast | 12/03/07
I only speak of known facts  georgeou | 12/03/07
If you're correct  notsofast | 12/04/07
I have used Comcast and it's a lot better than my DSL service  georgeou | 12/04/07
That may be true,  notsofast | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  MrJamin | 12/04/07
Excellent points!  georgeou | 12/04/07
Another Dissatisfied Pom????  goldenpirate@... | 12/04/07
True, oh so true...  journeyman2001@... | 12/04/07
I'm glad you said the RIGHT thing here..  Mr. Tinker | 12/04/07
on a recent quest to get the newest verison of the American Army game, the  wessonjoe | 12/04/07
RIAA says thank you  georgeou | 12/04/07
Maybe, but unlikely.  notsofast | 12/04/07
don't think i agreed with EFF in post. just sayin that with current service  wessonjoe | 12/06/07
I think you got him wrong  Counselorleo | 12/04/07
you get it. (nt)  wessonjoe | 12/06/07
maybe p2p software authors should help  sysop-dr | 12/04/07
Yes - it does  sphillips3 | 12/04/07
Net neutrality = greediest users screw everyone else  Vesicant | 12/04/07
George lacks ethics?  Akumal | 12/04/07
EFF specifically favors metered Internet  georgeou | 12/04/07
"work"  Akumal | 12/04/07
Those no limit plans cost a fortune  georgeou | 12/04/07
cost fortune = out of business  Akumal | 12/05/07
Welcome to Georgie's world!  bmerc | 12/05/07
I don't understand what is being said here!!!  mames1701 | 12/04/07
Metered Bandwidth - try metered service pricing  dankasnitzel | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  pcfixup4ua | 12/04/07
Give me an example of Comcast or any ISP blocking content  georgeou | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  billy_newman1@... | 12/04/07
What did you expect from a Lawyer ???  TheRealPauper | 12/04/07
P2P is a parasite  dufbeer703 | 12/04/07
No it is NOT !!!!  chaz15 | 12/04/07
Do you want to be billed an extra $5/GB?  georgeou | 12/04/07
More specious nonsense from the Georgemeister  bmerc | 12/05/07
Geeze George,  notsofast | 12/05/07
You mean user's tastes are parasitic...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
Nonsense  bmerc | 12/05/07
"shifting the cost of bandwidth"  Absolutely | 12/12/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  cdave230 | 12/04/07
better "neutral extremist" than biased sycophant, mr. ou  llval@... | 12/04/07
Stop the madness!  Slamshifter | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  deartous@... | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  vaughanm | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  DesertPete9@... | 12/04/07
Most Hilarious EFF Recommendation!  bjterry62 | 12/04/07
LOL  georgeou | 12/04/07
Why is it funny? You just break it into parts...  D. W. Bierbaum | 12/05/07
It's funny the same way...  bmerc | 12/05/07
What are they teaching these children today?  bmerc | 12/05/07
He said email, he said nothing of usenet  georgeou | 12/05/07
I have comcast  merc2dogs` | 12/04/07
I got weekly or mothly outages with DSL  georgeou | 12/04/07
Fix it Once and Forever!  marpincan@... | 12/04/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  dfesperman1@... | 12/04/07
Cost of data in Australia  KiwiMike | 12/04/07
Yea, right!  crawdad2k | 12/04/07
Excelent Point  goldenpirate@... | 12/05/07
Cost of living in the antipodes  KiwiMike | 12/05/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  johnford@... | 12/04/07
That's still bad  georgeou | 12/04/07
But that 100GB wouldnt come from the other side of the world  KiwiMike | 12/04/07
Once again George is PROVEN wrong and can't see it  bmerc | 12/05/07
That's about right  grumnut@... | 12/04/07
Sorry...out of order  grumnut@... | 12/04/07
What do you expect?  John Musbach | 12/04/07
Overusage  grumnut@... | 12/05/07
AT THE LEAST INVESTIGATE METERING  westks | 12/04/07
Broadband is already tiered by throughput and it's expensive enough  georgeou | 12/05/07
pay for what you get  KiwiMike | 12/05/07
george has already decided  Akumal | 12/05/07
George's definition of "innovation" comes from Microsoft (nt)  bmerc | 12/05/07
As an Australian, I have to say that I changed due to that . (NT)  kamahl928 | 12/05/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  jaunine@... | 12/05/07
Time for a chage  marpincan@... | 12/05/07
Are you kidding????  marpincan@... | 12/05/07
Read: EFF becomes MPAA/RIAA's BFF.  Wolfie2K3 | 12/05/07
Straight from the source  bruceslog | 12/06/07
EFF's own website recommends metered Internet as the alternative  georgeou | 12/06/07
Kick off the bandwidth hogs  pmjm@... | 12/07/07
RE: EFF wants to saddle you with metered Internet service  pavka@... | 12/07/07
Aussie Dollar  grumnut@... | 12/07/07

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