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May 8th, 2006

Is Vista UAP getting a bum rap?

Posted by George Ou @ 1:25 am

Categories: Security

Tags:

With Windows Vista Beta nearing "feature complete" status, Paul Thurrott wrote this damning article slamming Microsoft Windows Vista for "broken promises" and its new UAP (User Account Protection) mechanism as a "sad, sad joke".  A number of other Microsoft critics including Bruce Schneier have piled on the slam-UAP bandwagon for implementing wizards for maneuvering around administrative restrictions.  Normal day-to-day operations will never bother anyone with UAP warnings… The allegation is that the Vista UAP wizards pop up for seemingly innocent tasks that you would think shouldn’t pop up, but these people should really know better. [Editor's note: Ed Bott takes a closer look at the system prompts presented by Vista's UAC.] Bruce Schneier goes as far as trying to have it both ways by criticizing Microsoft for not implementing administrative restrictions sooner in pre-Vista operating systems but criticizes Microsoft for implementing UAP and doesn’t offer any alternatives for handling the task in a more graceful manner.

Thurrott specifically raises the "problem" that when he attempted to delete a Firefox shortcut from the desktop when he had just installed it, it demanded additional user authorization from Vista’s UAP which he thought was so stupid.  What Thurrott failed to realize or disclose is that deleting a shared shortcut like the one Firefox installed on the Desktop means that you are deleting a shared shortcut from the "All Users" desktop which requires administrative privileges.  With typical Windows XP configurations where most people run as part of the "Administrators" group (one of the main reasons Windows XP is so easy to infect with root kits and spyware), deleting something from the "All Users" desktop is no problem since administrative privileges are already present.  Had you been running Windows XP as an ordinary user (enterprises that care about security do this), you wouldn’t have been prompted with UAP warnings but you would have been flatly denied.  The only way to delete that shared shortcut is to log out of Windows XP and log back in as a System Administrator.  Once you’ve deleted the file, then you have to log out again and back in as the regular user.

Windows Vista UAP tries to make this process simpler by allowing you to elevate your system privileges on the spot and delete the shared shortcut without having to log off and back on again.  If you attempted to delete something in a shared user directory from Mac OS X or a Linux operating system, you’re also going to have to elevate your system privileges before you can complete the operation so why is anyone surprised at Windows Vista doing the same thing?  Where Windows Vista and UAP does differ from Linux and Mac OS X is that Vista actually goes a step further to protect your data files and not just the operating system.  If we look at a recent zero-day Mac OS X exploit, the proof of concept code couldn’t access the system files but it was given full access to the user’s files.  This means that while the exploit couldn’t damage the operating system, it could access your family photos and your financial records.

You can always rebuild your system files by reinstalling the operating system, but can you ever recover your family photos?  There are actual Malware called "ransomware" roaming in the wild that will attempt to hold your data hostage by encrypting your data until you pay them for the decryption keys.  Telling people "too bad you didn’t backup your data" doesn’t exactly help the vast majority of the population get their precious data back.  Windows Vista UAP goes as far as running Internet Explorer 7 in a sandbox so that if it ever did get compromised by a documented or undocumented exploit, it can’t access your System or User files.  Vista UAP even prevents IE7 from logging keystrokes from the rest of the operating system to prevent privilege escalation.  While some will point out that dedicated sandbox accounts can be set up in Mac OS X and Linux, they’re not that way by default and they take manual intervention to achieve which simply means that it won’t ever be done by the vast majority of users.  The pundits have failed to recognize the solid security advancements of Windows Vista and are clinging to a non-issue.

The challenge for Microsoft is that Windows users are not accustomed to dealing with user permissions since the vast majority of them routinely run Windows with administrative privileges.  There is no simple way of implementing sensible restrictions on user permissions without some growing pains.  When Windows XP Service Pack 2 came out, all the pundits slammed SP2 for "breaking hundreds of applications" when all that was needed was some holes punched in the firewall or worst case turned off.  The result was that a lot of people didn’t upgrade to Windows XP SP2 and still haven’t and are only harming themselves by not doing so.  I fear the exact same thing happening with Windows UAP protection because scaring people about Vista’s UAP feature is only going to help the Spyware and Malware pushers.  What’s really needed is user education on the dangers of running their computers as administrator and how UAP helps them get around the restrictions.  The reality is that normal day-to-day operations will never bother anyone with UAP warnings and the only time you’ll ever see it is when you need the protection most.

George Ou is Technical Director of ZDNet. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 121 Talkback(s)
...and yet another way...
Open explorer and use \\mycomputer\c$ and authenticate. (Read the rest)
Posted by: billhutto Posted on: 05/24/06 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
UAC  megame | 05/08/06
XP could have been retrofitted with some of these features  toadlife | 05/08/06
well...  megame | 05/08/06
It's a tough call for Windows XP  georgeou | 05/08/06
Clarification of what I meant  toadlife | 05/08/06
Did I read this right!  Edward Meyers | 05/08/06
Not as bad as it sounds  toadlife | 05/08/06
Exactly  georgeou | 05/08/06
Missing the problem  Roger Ramjet | 05/08/06
So how...  rapson | 05/08/06
One thing KDE does  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
Why?  Roger Ramjet | 05/08/06
And...  rapson | 05/08/06
In the ABMers' defense...  NonZealot | 05/08/06
No allowances in general  Edward Meyers | 05/08/06
Yikes, tell that to Linux users!!  NonZealot | 05/08/06
The difference is  tombalablomba | 05/08/06
oops  tombalablomba | 05/08/06
Not the only way of using package manager  NonZealot | 05/08/06
That can be done  georgeou | 05/08/06
I agree  Mark Miller | 05/10/06
UAP Bum Rap  junkmale | 05/08/06
Missing the problem...  gpederson01@... | 05/08/06
Sounds like what an Systems Admin Needs  nucrash | 05/08/06
I think the main problem with UAP  ju1ce | 05/08/06
Do you use Windows?  nucrash | 05/08/06
Are you kidding?  georgeou | 05/08/06
Well Mr. Ou.  ju1ce | 05/08/06
Let's not speculate  georgeou | 05/08/06
Interesting speculation though!  NonZealot | 05/08/06
That's what secure desktop 'fade to black' does  georgeou | 05/08/06
Not talking about fake UAP warnings  NonZealot | 05/08/06
They will certainly try with limitted success  georgeou | 05/08/06
happy  richvball44 | 05/10/06
You have nothing better to do than to delete icons and install software?  georgeou | 05/10/06
the really cool part about UAP....  JoeMama_z | 05/08/06
Shared desktop icon?  Robert Crocker | 05/08/06
Perhaps...  DarkMidknight | 05/08/06
The person who setup the system needs shot!  nucrash | 05/08/06
installer ought to be "shot"  john.murray@... | 05/08/06
Exactly, the blame belongs to the installer  georgeou | 05/08/06
Maybe Firefox IS the required App?  ajole | 05/09/06
Multiusers and desktops aren't good  quantumstate | 05/08/06
You DO have your own desktop  georgeou | 05/08/06
That's nice in some environments  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
What happens when a new account is created?  georgeou | 05/08/06
If a program adds the icon  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
Then you'd see two icons  georgeou | 05/08/06
Re: Then you'd see two icons  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
Take it up with the software vendor  georgeou | 05/08/06
Re: Take it up with the software vendor  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
That's correct  rapson | 05/08/06
That's on the vendor  georgeou | 05/08/06
That's NOT correct  ye | 05/09/06
I've been thinking the same thing  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
I agree to an "educated computer" user it is a great feature...  ju1ce | 05/08/06
The thing is you can't have it both ways  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
What I was getting at is...  ju1ce | 05/08/06
If all they do is browse and play music, they'll never see the warning  ajole | 05/09/06
Simple Solution  nucrash | 05/08/06
lol  toadlife | 05/08/06
More catching up...  bportlock | 05/08/06
Weather  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/08/06
Not exactly  mdemuth | 05/08/06
Small correction  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
RE: Weather  richdave | 05/08/06
I agree with you, but I think he meant, in the Windows world, this is it.  ajole | 05/09/06
Beta Vistas and Panoramas  DannyO_0x98 | 05/08/06
Too Late!!!  nucrash | 05/08/06
A tip for XP  NonZealot | 05/08/06
You can do this with built in explorer too  toadlife | 05/08/06
Thanks toadlife  NonZealot | 05/08/06
Here's a couple more...  billhutto | 05/24/06
...and yet another way...  billhutto | 05/24/06
sore loosers  zzz1234567890 | 05/08/06
I don't see your point  nucrash | 05/08/06
Backups  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
It's easy to back up without software  georgeou | 05/08/06
But easier with it.  Anton Philidor | 05/08/06
which dell package did you buy???  john.gruber@... | 05/08/06
I personally don't buy Dell or any vendor, I build  georgeou | 05/08/06
Masochist  TonyMcS | 05/08/06
Depends on what you're doing  georgeou | 05/08/06
Its MUCH easier now...  ajole | 05/09/06
Really?  TonyMcS | 05/09/06
I know what you mean Tony  georgeou | 05/09/06
I like your idea, but what about System Restore?  ajole | 05/09/06
How for will you go for M$  drichards1953 | 05/08/06
And you dreaming...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/08/06
Congratulations  Yagotta B. Kidding | 05/08/06
You are wrong, people DO want it that way  ajole | 05/09/06
Huh?  eliwap | 05/08/06
Nope, you completely missed it  georgeou | 05/08/06
The ABM crowd will always whine.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 05/08/06
True, but  Michael Kelly | 05/08/06
Thurrott, ABM? Bull.  V-Train | 05/08/06
What are you whining about now? (nt)  none none | 05/08/06
Sounds like a good thing.  none none | 05/08/06
Aero glass is the only thing that needs a fast computer  georgeou | 05/08/06
Sheesh...  ju1ce | 05/08/06
What I meant was...  none none | 05/08/06
as long as you bring it up...  john.gruber@... | 05/08/06
Irrelevant details  richard64 | 05/08/06
But they are NOT 'incessant'  georgeou | 05/08/06
I feel bad now about my hatred for UAP  NonZealot | 05/08/06
You can turn it off during the install phase  georgeou | 05/08/06
yes you can  megame | 05/08/06
If you can tweak UAP at the Group Policy level  georgeou | 05/08/06
Oh but they are relevant  georgeou | 05/08/06
what software are you running?  john.gruber@... | 05/08/06
just read the next story... proves my point.  john.gruber@... | 05/08/06
But you're wrong  georgeou | 05/08/06
but the browser shows the same profile as Windows  john.gruber@... | 05/09/06
No biggie - We'll all have a programmed keyboard button  WiredGuy | 05/08/06
Having the special button would be nice  georgeou | 05/08/06
If Paul Thurrott (huge hack) says this it REALLY must be bad!  An_Axe_to_Grind | 05/08/06
Vista UAP  jobert48@... | 05/08/06
Depends on what that something is  georgeou | 05/08/06
They complain about malware  ebrke | 05/09/06
XP SP2 is just spyware. Vista is going infected with more DRM than SP2.  Anthony S. | 05/10/06
Say what?  anythingbutmine0 | 05/10/06

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