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April 5th, 2006

Caveat eBay Emptor

Posted by Jeffrey S. Young @ 1:08 pm

Categories: Uncategorized

Tags:

I’m never going to use eBay again.

Now this is no material issue to the billion dollar company, since I’ve only bought a couple of things on it over the life of the company.  The real eBayer in our family is our eldest daughter, a college student on a tight budget with a heightened interest in getting the best deal on everything. But even she agrees that something is rotten in Denmark. Especially with a “feature” called Second Chance, an official eBay method of bid shilling that might not be illegal, It didn’t have to be this way if eBay had kept focusing on its core product, instead of chasing the grail of growth at all costs. but it sure subverts the original promise of the company.

The real issue here is for shareholders. eBay looks like another Internet company—see this musing on Google—that has taken its eyes off a core business by buying Skype to satisfy Wall Street’s  demand for growth at all costs.  My evidence?  A tale of damaged expectations, misleading descriptions, manipulated bids, colluding sellers, meaningless “feedback ratings”, and financial shenanigans, all of which is part of a recent eBay experience.

It all started when I tried to buy a handbag for my wife’s birthday.  She wanted a particular “Prada” one, but since the designer has no store in northern California, we took a look on eBay.  I’ve since realized that even used handbags with this marque cost upwards of a thousand dollars, but I naively assumed that a $300 handbag (palpitations!) on eBay was pricey enough to be legitimate.  When I saw several dozen “authentic” “guaranteed” “brand new” bags, festooned with glowing descriptions and lots of fancy sounding guarantees—stamped metal and lining logos, “controllata” card certificates of authenticity, etc.– all being auctioned by a bevy of “power sellers” and eBay members with hundreds of positive feedback ratings and their own online “stores”, I figured we had found a great source.  After all, eBay, great brand name that it has promoted itself to become, wouldn’t let pirates and scamsters take over their service would they?

So we bid on a bag.  As usual (as counseled by our daughter), nothing much happened until the very last half hour, when one bidder pushed up the bid price until it exceeded our “maximum” (the price we had shared with eBay as our limit.)  We were disappointed, but philosophical.  There were several others on offer after all.  One would be ours.

The next morning I was surprised to find an official email from eBay informing me that although I had lost the auction, the winner had backed out and I now had a “Second Chance” to buy the bag for my bid “limit” amount.  I was a bit nonplussed that what I had thought was a private amount was now being publicly revealed, and I wondered how the buyer could have decided to back out between Sunday night and Monday morning when the email was sent to me, but no matter. I went ahead and agreed to the “Second Chance” deal.  After all, I had been willing to pay that much so what was the problem?

It wasn’t until the handbag arrived a week later that things started to come unraveled.  While the bag was well made, and was of genuine leather, the handle was a mishmash , didn’t match the rest of the bag and signaled a high quality knock­off.  My wife claimed that she knew all along that it was going to be a copy—I was reeling at the price for a fake and wasn’t so easily mollified—and that if the handle had matched she would have kept it.  We returned it.

That was when I started to look a little more closely at the sales environment at eBay.  Here’s my list of problems.

  1. The Second Chance idea is simply a way for sellers to smoke out your maximum bid, then offer to sell you the item at your limit.  An associate bids up the item until you drop out, signaling that your maximum has been reached.  The next day the associate backs out, and eBay offers you the item for your limit price.  This makes the idea that you’re actually able to get a “deal” for anything, a fiction—the best you’ll ever do is pay whatever limit you’ve set.  And it is particularly ironic since eBay makes a big deal out of policing “bid shilling” (what it calls the practice of enlisting a fake bidder to up the price) and then offers an official way to do the same thing…
  2. The profusion of resellers of fake luxury goods makes eBay more like a Chinese side  street market than an American flea market.  Worse, because you have no way to know that the picture of the item has anything to do with the thing you’ll eventually receive, it is actually worse.  At least in a market you can handle the goods before buying them.You also have to read every word of the return policy carefully—many “power sellers” say that all sales are final. In this case if what you receive isn’t what you thought was described, there is very little recourse.  While this is a tough issue, eBay needs to police itself somehow.
  3. There is massive collusion among sellers.  After I returned the original bag, I started looking carefully at other sellers.  It was then that I realized that there was another “power seller” with the same picture, very similar description, same shipping charges, and similar price operating out of the same mid-sized Oregon town.  This seemed too coincidental to be chance alone at work, especially since the two of them were the only sellers in the eBay world with this particular handbag.  Was one of their associates also the bidder against me in the auction? Who knows…eBay should be able to figure it out if they put some of the brilliant guys who keep Skype alive on the issue.
  4. The “feedback” ratings are meaningless.  My daughter explained to me that if you try to say something negative about a seller, they simply threaten to post nasty comments about you in return, thus tarnishing your “rating” and ensuring that you’ll never get your money back.  This is why there are so few negative comments.  Essentially eBay pretends to be a buyer friendly place, but in actuality it is skewed to the sellers.  This is probably good for business—since people who sell lots of things on the service generate the most profits—but it is ultimately going to be bad for eBay as more and more buyers give up on this unfriendly, unpoliced environment.
  5. PayPal, while providing some assurance that a completely fraudulent transaction can be rescinded, is playing the “float” in a way that might be expected from an old-line bank, not from a new-generation Internet financial institution.  Within minutes of my agreement to take the Second Chance offer, I noticed that the money was electronically sucked out of my bank account.  However, the transaction was not officially completed (i.e. money credited to the seller as evidenced by an email) for two days, or 48 hours.  PayPal charged me a fee, and used my money for 48 hours.  Nothing illegal about this, just another example of a customer-last attitude that augurs danger for the future of eBay.

So, enough of this screed.  Many of you are probably whispering "Caveat Emptor" under your breath.  I agree.  And I’ll be much more caveat in the future.  The sad thing is that a great idea, which was well implemented at first, has degenerated into another den of human venality where the honest citizen has no chance against the sharpies and the scamsters. 

But it didn’t have to be this way if eBay had kept focusing on its core product, instead of chasing the grail of growth at all costs.  I won’t be shopping at eBay again.

Jeffrey S. Young is the co-author of iCon Steve Jobs. He currently tends a vineyard in Northern California.

  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 201 Talkback(s)
2nd chance scam
I think employees are scamming. I was offered a second chance and paid $340.00 for a vcr. Never got the vcr and eBay says they never sent the second chance offer. The e-mail had their letter head logo... (Read the rest)
Posted by: rgamez48 Posted on: 01/05/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
I'm sorry to hear that... but it's to be expected nowadays.  BillyG_n_SC | 04/05/06
Dissatisfied with EBay open a Store with YoAuction  thebest12 | 11/12/06
Its your own fault  Roger Ramjet | 04/06/06
ebay is ok if you do your homework  adr5@... | 04/07/06
If eBay wanted a fair 'second chance',  kiddpeat | 04/07/06
I do exactly the same thing.  kiddpeat | 04/07/06
two ways to bid  ralphrides | 04/07/06
eBay and Paypal both fail the test  russellphoto_z | 04/06/06
Credit Cards not really any protection  NickV5 | 04/07/06
You either have a lousy credit card company...  flatliner | 04/09/06
Two or Three times is way too much.  mombo | 05/04/06
Why are you surprised?  brucegil@... | 04/07/06
TO ALL BUYERS: Assume all Sellers are CROOKS  rodney@... | 04/10/06
Caveat eBay Emptor  CodeBubba | 04/07/06
It is due to your ingenuity!  AndesEbla | 04/07/06
eBay works well, just be careful  hygold | 04/07/06
Thanks for the warning  QLeaper | 04/07/06
It ain't necessarily so..  rabscuttle | 04/07/06
How are you going to convince us?  jsargent | 04/07/06
Proof of the point  JFD93 | 04/07/06
WHAT_????  johnmcmullan7@... | 04/09/06
No more eBay  drnoel | 04/07/06
ebay's time is long past  gmerin | 04/07/06
Ebay rip offs (?)  LostAgain | 04/07/06
Auction Sniping  ve3sy | 04/07/06
Food for thought  danAj | 04/07/06
eBay  dart50 | 04/07/06
Have you ever tried drop.com ?  chicagomark71 | 10/20/06
I'm impressed!  tasmanian_devil | 11/09/06
fraud is everywhere-online to everyday brick and mortar stores  mhoistion | 04/07/06
IT'S SO FUNNY!!!  johnmcmullan7@... | 04/09/06
Buyers should fight back???  hollonre@... | 04/07/06
Buyers should fight back???  i3cuwbet@... | 04/07/06
THANK YOU!!!  johnmcmullan7@... | 04/09/06
Caveat eBay Emptor  Sandytx | 04/07/06
eBay won't budge without serious competition  dmennie | 04/10/06
Dissatisfied with EBay open a Store with  thebest12 | 11/12/06
Not So Fast 2nd chance can be legit.  bens@... | 04/07/06
2nd chance  Wolfpacker96 | 04/07/06
Bids are public knowledge after the auction  bens@... | 04/07/06
All bids except the highest one are public knowledge...  flatliner | 04/09/06
second chance and...tips  CO77 | 04/10/06
legitimate 2nd chance, not  Jeff_Toronto | 04/07/06
Offering a bidder an item at the price they bid a scam?  bens@... | 04/07/06
second chance scam  Jeff_Toronto | 04/08/06
Yes, If One Uses Dishonest Methods  SpillChucker | 04/09/06
Second chances offers are most often for real!  lebadang | 04/07/06
You contradict yourself  nikoniko | 04/07/06
Actually...  talespinner | 04/08/06
I had to reply to this!  Chuckzilla | 04/10/06
NOT SO FAST ?????  johnmcmullan7@... | 04/09/06
Ebay fees and second chance  bens@... | 04/11/06
Oh please Ebay seller, Brokenben  beadyeyeguy | 04/10/06
Please Excuse me for running actual auctions on Ebay!  bens@... | 04/11/06
Ok...  beadyeyeguy | 04/11/06
re OK  bens@... | 04/12/06
eBay can never be better than the worst!  atc78628 | 04/07/06
Scammers on EBay...  wjgrimm | 04/07/06
Caveat eBay Emptor  jwireman@... | 04/07/06
and for every success...  UnSpin | 04/07/06
Agree totally!!  nothingness | 04/12/06
I have had good luck with eBay  dshealey_z | 04/07/06
Sniping and Paypal  SWW Ironman | 04/07/06
Ebay - Big brother?  angstadt@... | 04/07/06
It is all about the money...  melmitts707 | 04/07/06
Second Chance Ebay  Jeff_Toronto | 04/07/06
Rely on Outside Help  oigfree | 04/07/06
I never thought eBay was of any use anyway  mreilly19 | 04/07/06
e-bay  guru388 | 04/07/06
ebay is not all bad  jwwtw@... | 04/07/06
Second Chance is NOT fraud  skeptic-2 | 04/07/06
False bidding is fraud  mist42nz | 04/07/06
Why Email Ebay when everythins is automated...  jason.mailley | 04/07/06
You are so right  applemacman | 09/30/06
eBay sucks  coffeegurrl | 04/07/06
EBAY does suck....sell their stock quick  sdrey | 09/21/06
Ebay is bad for sellers too  NCdev | 04/07/06
by the way... (Amazon)  NCdev | 04/07/06
Sellers have problems with eBay too!  HopeChestStore | 04/07/06
E-bay Fools  masterherm | 04/07/06
no one deserves to be scammed  UnSpin | 04/07/06
eBay fools - absolutely!  domg_z | 04/08/06
the Internet is not a friendly place  NCdev | 04/07/06
There's always Craig's List . . .  cppsolutions | 04/07/06
Also dissatisfied  tdaalsj | 04/07/06
Best strategy  shryko | 04/07/06
Ebay bad practice  scriven | 04/07/06
E-Bay Used To Be Great!  dotcom_z | 04/07/06
Use your head dude  kokuryu | 04/07/06
VERY well said mate. n/m  Artstar | 04/08/06
Time for a competitor  ronlene@... | 04/07/06
Gee... Caveat Emptor indeed.  Wolfie2K3 | 04/07/06
The only time 2nd chance is clearly fraudulent ...  Artstar | 04/07/06
Consumer rip off, what a surprise!  jobert48@... | 04/07/06
PETTY THIEVES  i3cuwbet@... | 04/07/06
A few more facts to read  smarkers | 04/07/06
It is a street market, not a shopping mall.  MV_z | 04/07/06
It affects not just the buyers!!!!  soyent | 04/07/06
Caveat eBay Emptor  irvigne | 04/07/06
My instincts has served me well  pdlue | 04/07/06
Don't blame eBay  Ginevra | 04/07/06
E-Bay  pudpud | 04/07/06
A Different Perspective  jansa1 | 04/07/06
My suspicions now seem founded in truth.  colinjw | 04/07/06
They don't the users do  smarkers | 04/07/06
Phish Farms  hupfodder | 04/07/06
Ebay Not All Bad  camstar@... | 04/07/06
Feedback  gregorys@... | 04/07/06
the customer is nothing to eBay  divendra | 04/07/06
and about PayPal  divendra | 04/07/06
Steve Jobs was Other Shill Bidder  jbelkin | 04/07/06
are you kidding?  jkfan87 | 04/07/06
My 50th purchase and last 2 scams  glang27 | 04/07/06
What about iOffer etc?  ic Forest | 04/07/06
Your article missed the mark like michael bay's pearl harbor  trojanmancruz | 04/07/06
Ebay  David Kiefer | 04/07/06
How eBay Maximum Bidding Really Works  sandawana | 04/07/06
ebay sucks  wamin | 04/07/06
eBay  vapetlover | 04/07/06
Pay Pal Fraud  llindaboo | 04/07/06
eBay problems are real  Recce1 | 04/07/06
ebay  pmm3770 | 04/07/06
Ebay makes it too hard to get resolution from bad sellers  geewhizbang | 04/07/06
eBay no different from any market  domg_z | 04/08/06
Ebay  chuck@... | 04/08/06
Ebay  chuck@... | 04/08/06
eBay  cubfan | 04/08/06
EBay is an amazing communication tool.  astroguy@... | 04/08/06
E-Bay - A ripoff?  YAJEULBONE | 04/08/06
I've always suspected it...  Joey1058 | 04/08/06
eBay experience  bkmyers | 04/08/06
E-bay  pcreich | 04/08/06
I have bought a lot from eBay, you have the wrong problem  ramunno | 04/09/06
You hit the nail on the Head!  scofnc | 04/09/06
Ebay auctions are a farse!  bedsensations | 04/09/06
With Froogle, who needs eBay?  rickeditor | 04/09/06
Froogle works...sometimes.  flatliner | 04/12/06
up to buyers to be sensible ... scammers always find a way ...  archief | 04/10/06
Something else rotten i the state of eBay  gordon.feeney@... | 04/10/06
EBay and Paypal  rstouten@... | 04/10/06
2nd chance and ebay fraud  4pvl | 04/10/06
I AGREE WITH YOU 1000%  RonCarlson | 04/11/06
"bargain"...  JonnyZ | 05/04/06
You Are Right E-Bay Sucks  scaglione@... | 04/11/06
Feedback, schmeedback!  SherMartin | 04/11/06
Club Ebay  joe.smetona@... | 04/12/06
You cant go wrong with USPS Money Order and the US Post Office  donkey_butter | 04/12/06
E-bay and pay-pal are a joke!  guru388 | 04/12/06
Right! eBay and PayPal are rip offs!!  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
ebay,not worthy  r20 | 04/12/06
it all depends on what you're buying  rwickberg | 04/12/06
Why do we call it an auction?  Bob<<< | 04/12/06
Caveat eBay Emptor  BikerB | 04/13/06
I agree completely  999ad@... | 04/13/06
YUP noticed that one too  hopsnob | 04/24/06
lmao...  JonnyZ | 05/04/06
The FIRST rule of auctions...  Beat a Dead Horse | 04/13/06
good advice...  JonnyZ | 05/04/06
Good Advice?  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
eBay & PayPal are in it together , they eat their young!!!  chazzjazz | 04/17/06
ebay & PayPal employees are independant  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
i 4got 2 mention, b careful, ebayers are not beyond sending U a virus  chazzjazz | 04/17/06
off base, and whiny to boot  ericksen72 | 04/19/06
ebay counterfeit marketplace  paul.c.desjardins@... | 04/21/06
Bad copies of DVD, 2nd Chance/PayPay scams  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
eBay is great but..............  hopsnob | 04/24/06
Common sense  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
You can do that already  professordnm | 04/24/06
eBAY Buying And Selling  COOLRIDER88_88 | 04/25/06
investigate before invest  1tombstone | 09/20/06
All over the world!  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
eBay is like any other flee market  xshakes | 04/26/06
Ebay Scam  RickKing007 | 04/28/06
Now I'm gay?  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
Eaby and PayPal experience  RickKing007 | 04/28/06
Buy It Now  markdoiron | 05/02/06
FEEDBACK IS A JOKE  r20 | 05/02/06
You got scammed !  trickydick4 | 05/03/06
Second Chance Scam  sthayes | 05/04/06
2nd chance scam  rgamez48 | 01/05/07
E-Bay Scams  antoosa | 05/04/06
regarding PayPal  einsteintech | 05/04/06
You wouldn't be so satisfied...  JonnyZ | 05/04/06
i have had a chargeback  einsteintech | 05/07/06
This brush doesn't fit the canvas!  compusolver | 05/04/06
eBay does NOT stop crooks, even when they know !!!!  AnneFtl | 05/04/06
ebay crooks  1tombstone | 09/20/06
LMAO  GaryRW | 05/04/06
Whiners...  JonnyZ | 05/04/06
use a trackable method  einsteintech | 05/07/06
Amen, Brother  paul_jarvis | 05/09/06
Caveat eBay emptor  bachware | 05/04/06
enough is enough  CaveCricket | 05/04/06
A story of another buyer that wants something for nuthin  paul_jarvis | 05/09/06
Very enlightening  Mark Miller | 05/11/06
"luck" is a bad shopping strategy  paradis00 | 05/12/06
PAYPAL WILL DESTROY YOUR SMALL BUSINESS  alien000 | 07/08/06
Paypal will steal your money  alien000 | 07/08/06
Message has been deleted.  myfevertoy | 10/22/06
Open a New Store with us  thebest12 | 11/12/06
eBay Second Chance Rip Off  rgamez48 | 01/05/07

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