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February 19th, 2007

ODF vs. OOXML - the way I see it

Posted by John Carroll @ 9:34 am

Categories: General, IT Management, ODF, Office, Office 2007, Open Source, PC Forum, Software Infrastructure

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In a blog post on Friday, I asked in the title whether ODF has sufficient detail after discovering a post by Miguel de Icaza's on the subject of ODF vs. OOXML. The point from that post I keyed on was that 6,000 pages isn't a problem so long as those 6,000 pages actually have detail relevant to saving and describing office documents. Miguel de Icaza, by his reading, thinks there is information in OOXML that has never been seen before, and he finds that worthy of merit. Whether or not he thinks, personally, that OOXML should be an ISO standard is a separate question.

I dove into the ODF debate over a year ago with a series of blog posts questioning the wisdom of  mandating a new standard completely unrelated to the one that currently exists, however de facto its status. It's a bit like a UN Emergency Assistence team going to a country whose staple food is rice and distributing bags of bleached flour, or a government standards group mandating train track gauges of four feet even though 99% of the market is built with a gauge of four and a half.

ODF isn't a bad standard. It seems to be built on a lot of public standards ratified by the W3C, and I've not found anything that strikes me as irrational from a technical standpoint. It's just something out of left field, market wise, and that's a weird thing for a new standard to do. It would be somewhat akin to a standards committee dictating that all software written in a particular state use the SmallTalk programming language, even though C-family languages (C++, C#, Java) are vastly more common and developers knowledgeable in the language are few and far between.

But, I don't expect fans of ODF to agree with that, either. So, let's step back a minute and consider why this whole process got started. Governments such as Massachusetts started a process that resulted in the choice of ODF because they were looking for a document format that could be understood in the distant future, long after a particular program that created a document had passed to that great big software dustbin in the sky. In other words, governments wanted a format suitable for archival that was well defined and accessible to anyone who wished to use it.

ODF is clearly well-defined, and its backers had the foresight to initiate the official standardization process long before Microsoft did. In other words, it makes a decent archive format, so long as documents are expressed in ODF.

What Mr. de Icaza's blog makes clear, however, is that ODF does have functionality gaps. Things like spreadsheet formulas have not been standardized. Yes, you can save spreadsheet formulas in ODF, but since there is no official definition of the syntax those formulas should take, you end up with a formula the interpretation of which is application specific. If the ODF standard as it pertains to spreadsheet formulas could be compared to a vase, it would be like putting flowers in the vase in one instance and a bowling ball in the other and claiming the vase was used for the same purpose.

One could convert everything to what OpenOffice uses for formulas, but given the lack of an official standard, that's as credible as putting formulas as is from an existing Microsoft Office document. David Leigh (a respondent in the talkbacks to my last blog post) noted efforts towards a a standard formula specification (named OpenFormula), which is good. It doesn't change the fact that such a thing doesn't exist now, however, nor that there is no clearly defined completion date for that process.

But, let's pretend all the functionality gaps in ODF get closed in the next 5-10 years. Let's assume the full range of functionality found in a typical Microsoft Office document will get standardized in some form as part of ODF, resulting in a complete format that can handle pretty much any kind of functionality you might want to include in an office document.

How is that going to help to archive the BILLIONS of documents humans have made over the last 15+ years, a period when Microsoft's Office software was the de facto standard for creating office documents?

It's great that people have tried to devise what they believe to be an "ideal" office document format. The problem, however, is that most people have been using for the the past few decades an application made by a company in Redmond. Given that product's need to compete with offerings from other companies, some of which at one time were themselves the market leader (WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3), it has also absorbed information relevent to accurate representation of data in those formats. In other words, compatibility in Office stretches beyond the confines of Microsoft's own document formats.

That knowledge and history is included in OOXML. Some have pointed out that OOXML is the format used in Office 2007, and as such, is far from widespread given that the product in which it is used was only officially released at the end of January, 2007. That's beside the point. Microsoft has a strong interest in making sure older documents display properly in the latest incarnation of its leading Office suite. Though OOXML is an update on XML document format work started with Office 2003, it is the "inheritor" of a long history of document formats stretching back to the binary days.

It shouldn't be contentious to state that OOXML is going to have a far easier time representing older Office document formats - or even legacy formats from some of Microsoft's competitors (WordPerfect, or Lotus 1-2-3) than ODF. It's a format that was DESIGNED to express such documents, along with a range of functionality that currently isn't encompassed by ODF.

If the goal of a standard document format is to be able to properly archive ALL documents and not just those made as of mid-2006 and saved to the ODF format, then OOXML should be considered rather important. It's worth noting that one of the co-sponsors of Microsoft's submission to the the ECMA was the British Library, an organization with a strong interest in archive of digital documents. It also might help to explain why OOXML requires 6,000 pages. A format that has a history that stretches back 20 years is going to have a range of functionality and supported inclusions that ODF, as a newer format, does not have.

Even if you are a fan of ODF, I think it should be obvious that ODF is going to have a heck of a time capturing all the information contained in billions of existing office documents. Given that ODF is certainly not "complete" (in the sense of having all the functionality of a typical Microsoft Office document, a point noted numerous times in the Talkbacks to my previous blog post), why not capture them in a format that has been designed to capture them, provided that format is sufficiently documented?   19 contradictions were lodged by participants in the ISO standardization process? Fine. That's what the process is for.

Over time, ODF might figure out ways to pull more information out of OOXML and put it into whatever standard formats ODF settles on in the future. In the interim, why try to slam square pegs into round holes?

To my mind, OOXML and ODF represent two different approaches to office document technology. One is evolutionary, and the other is revolutionary. Lest people rejoice in my calling ODF "revolutionary," note that revolutions can result in great changes that benefit humanity as a whole, or regimes that kill their own people with revolutionary zeal. Evolution has merit as an approach to change.

The battle between ODF and OOXML also implies that there is no settled opinion as to the proper way to handle office document formats, much less the functionality which should be included therein. That's important in standards, as they are supposed to be something that is relatively set in stone. Since there is no general consensus on the right way to do office document formats, why not have both working alongside each other, if not competing to see which manages to serve human interests better? Archivists get what they want, and both sides can continue to work to improve their respective standards.

At some point in the distant future, we may even manage to settle on a single standard that provides the best of both worlds (and given the documentation rigor of a standarization process, cross-pollination becomes more likely). For now, we would have something that leverages the full range of the existing ecosystem (OOXML) as well as something that takes a stab at a new direction (ODF).

Anyway, that's MY opinion. And since I'm speaking on a rather controversial topic while Microsoft employed, it's worth reiterating that though I WORK for Microsoft, I do not SPEAK for the company. These are my opinions, wholly my opinions, and nothing but MY opinions.

John CarrollJohn Carroll has delivered his opinion on ZDNet since the last millennium. Since May 2008, he is no longer a Microsoft employee. He is currently working at a unified messaging-related startup. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 94 Talkback(s)
re: Licensed .doc/.xls.ppt formats spec from Microsoft
"Microsoft Office Binary File Formats
Microsoft makes its .doc, .xls, and .ppt binary file format specifications available under a royalty-free covenant not to sue to anyone who wishes to implement... (Read the rest)
Posted by: Demolish Posted on: 03/01/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
John - that is one *twisted* argument  bportlock | 02/19/07
A very good post!!  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Re: twisted  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
John, could you first acknowledge all of the financial incentives that MS  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Less twisting perhaps???  bportlock | 02/19/07
Microsoft sat on the sidelines while ODF was developed  zaine_ridling | 02/20/07
But, what John says is very misleading. He says that the "offical" standard  DonnieBoy | 02/20/07
Much easier  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
License to kill  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
The whole problem here is that we need to make sure that MS can not use  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
OOXML licensing  glocks out | 02/19/07
We really need to follow the money here to understand what is going on.  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
15+ years of docs  deaf_e_kate | 02/19/07
Fine  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
The problem is rather obvious John. First, you need to tell us that you  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Okay  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
John, the basic office document is NOT rocket science. There are many  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Re: more  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
No, the developers at MS do not have cabbage soup for brains,. YOUR words,  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Nice dodge, John  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
Bull  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
John, please just admit your outright bias here  zaine_ridling | 02/20/07
Where is the problem in that?  deaf_e_kate | 02/19/07
OOXML is terrible ODF is fine  stevey_d | 02/19/07
Yes, it is very disingenuous of John to not mention all of the many known  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Not bugs  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
Or, maybe you could conced that it is best to not trust the fox guarding  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Now, THAT's just silly!!  dave.leigh@... | 02/19/07
Yes, bugs.  dave.leigh@... | 02/19/07
OOXML does not allow access to style information  stevey_d | 02/20/07
Standards Nonsense  croberts | 02/19/07
So, if the doc/xls formats are so good, and MS is so open and caring about  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Take a deep breath and set aside your anti-ms tirade  croberts | 02/19/07
Take a deep breath, and realize there is no rocket science in the document  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Formulas  eb276 | 02/20/07
it would be really refreshing if .....  bportlock | 02/19/07
I've got one remark  tombalablomba | 02/19/07
Grrr!!!  bportlock | 02/19/07
You do have me laughing! Funny how those in power have createed  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
(Totally O/T) Those in charge...  bportlock | 02/19/07
maybe  tombalablomba | 02/20/07
one after thought, actually question  tombalablomba | 02/20/07
(O/T) Pilots  bportlock | 02/20/07
On the European Continent  tombalablomba | 02/20/07
Not quite accurate  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
I agree  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
You seem to forget that you argued that one OS standard was the best for  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Well said.  zaine_ridling | 02/20/07
two standards for Internet communications  deaf_e_kate | 02/20/07
Strategic  tombalablomba | 02/20/07
Not correct  Multivac | 02/20/07
History  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
No way Microsoft was seriously invited  Multivac | 02/25/07
Why is Microsoft a sponsor of OASIS?  deaf_e_kate | 02/19/07
They are only there to trash OASIS standards, or at least get advance  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Monoculture!  Khaotic_One | 02/19/07
Address "extending" ODF  Voodoo187 | 02/19/07
applications, rather  Voodoo187 | 02/19/07
this is hilarious...  Voodoo187 | 02/19/07
That is funny  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
Converter is a joke  Multivac | 02/20/07
are you kidding?  Voodoo187 | 02/20/07
No, are you ?  Multivac | 02/25/07
So, does John have cabbage soup for brains, or does he really deep down  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Donnie. Donnie, Donnie  TonyMcS | 02/19/07
If you read my post, you would see that I think that John is quite  DonnieBoy | 02/19/07
Yes, Donnie  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
Yes, and you show no remorse. You were found guilty, unanamously, by a  DonnieBoy | 02/20/07
no evil john ,self centered  Quebec-french | 02/20/07
oh no EVIL is LIVE backwards  stevey_d | 02/20/07
re: oh no EVIL is LIVE backwards  Demolish | 03/01/07
Hyperventilation...  D. T. Schmitz | 02/19/07
Decades of yada-yada-yada  dave.leigh@... | 02/19/07
Not just yada yada yada  Imaginos1892 | 02/19/07
The beginning of the end of Microsoft's OXML  zaine_ridling | 02/20/07
Nicely argued Dave! (nt)  bportlock | 02/20/07
yes potentially losing billions of bucks will motivate microsoft to war  stevey_d | 02/20/07
15+ years  none none | 02/19/07
Accounting for the past  John CarrollZDNet Moderator | 02/19/07
...doesn't need OOXML  dave.leigh@... | 02/20/07
You get what you ask for  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
Actually ODf does reference legacy formats by name  Multivac | 02/20/07
The draw:applet element  dave.leigh@... | 02/20/07
java language open, runtime is not (just free for individuals)  Multivac | 03/01/07
Good Question  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
Trust  Yagotta B. Kidding | 02/20/07
Binary formats are availalbe from MS  Multivac | 02/20/07
Well, then.  dave.leigh@... | 02/20/07
Licensed .doc/.xls.ppt formats spec from Microsoft  Multivac | 02/25/07
re: Licensed .doc/.xls.ppt formats spec from Microsoft  Demolish | 03/01/07
MS is in OASIS  Multivac | 02/20/07
IBM and OSS supporters hoaxing ?  Multivac | 02/20/07
Haha ? "hoaxes" site only confirms OXML's many weaknesses  zaine_ridling | 02/20/07
Left Field...err...Silly People  Demolish | 02/28/07

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