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February 11th, 2009

Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?

Posted by Adrian Kingsley-Hughes @ 10:44 am

Categories: In the news, Legal, Microsoft, Software, Thoughts

Tags: Antitrust, Microsoft Corp., Mozilla Corp., Web Browsers, Leadership, Strategy, Open Source, Internet, Management, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

Mozilla Foundation chairperson Mitchell Baker believes that because Internet Explorer is integrated into the OS this give Microsoft an unfair advantage in the browser war. As a result of this Baker is in favor of EU involvement to try to level the playing field. Is this a bad move for Mozilla?

Baker appears to be getting ready to wade in pretty deep:

The extent of the damage is so great that it makes it difficult to figure out an effective and timely remedy. I believe it’s worth some effort to try. It’s easy to look at Firefox market share and assume the problem is gone or the damage is undone. But that’s not the case. The drag on innovation and choice caused by Microsoft’s actions remains. At Mozilla we work to reduce this drag through direct action, and the results are gratifying. If the EC can identify an effective remedy that also serves to improve competition, innovation and choice, I would find it most welcome.

I’ll be paying close attention to the EC’s activities, both personally and on behalf of Mozilla. Mozilla has enormous expertise in this area. It’s an extremely complex area, involving browsers, user experience, the OEM and other distribution channels, and the foundations for ongoing innovation. An effective remedy would be a watershed event; a poorly constructed remedy could cause unfortunate damage.

I’d like to offer Mozilla’s expertise as a resource to the EC as it considers what an effective remedy would entail. I’ll be reaching out to people I know with particular history, expertise and ideas regarding these topics. If you’ve got specific ideas or concerns please feel free to contact me. I’ll post more as the discussion develops. [emphasis added]

Should Mozilla get involved in the IE/EU antitrust issue?

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This post has already raised some red flags in a few camps.

Ars Technica:

I think that her position on this matter is highly questionable. There are quite a few open source software enthusiasts who would argue that, for a broad range of software products, the emergence of a Mozilla-like model is actually desirable and highly advantageous for consumers. A point will eventually arrive for many kinds of software where there is simply no point in trying to derive value from shrink-wrapping it, and then efforts will converge around collaboratively-developed open source implementations that will displace and eliminate the need for proprietary commercial implementations. Why should that be viewed as unhealthy?

It’s risky to let the government perpetually equalize the market, because sometimes the greatest innovations appear when inventors have to face tougher odds. It’s also worthwhile to wonder what will happen when the shoe is on the other foot.

It’s disappointing, however, to see Mozilla and other browser makers looking for government intervention rather than demonstrating the unequivocal superiority of standards-compliant web browsers by defeating Microsoft on their own. It’s hard to imagine anything good coming from all of this.

TechDirt:

So, it’s especially disappointing to read that the Mozilla Foundation appears to be siding with the regulators, complaining about Microsoft’s actions. Obviously, Mozilla is competing with Microsoft in this space, so at a first pass it may seem in their best interests to lobby the EU to punish Microsoft. But it’s disingenuous to say the least. Mozilla got where it did because it competed effectively. It built a better, more secure browser that many people made the choice to support over IE. In fact, Firefox’s chief architect, apparently unaware of what his “bosses” were cooking up, seems to have recently contradicted the Mozilla Foundation’s new position, where he admitted that he couldn’t see how anyone with a straight face could claim that Microsoft’s ability to bundle created a monopoly, noting that Firefox’s success in growing marketshare showed that making yourself “demonstrably better” worked. Oops.

I’m no fan of Internet Explorer, but I agree that I can see very little good coming from this. Not only that, Firefox is a perfect example of the fact that competition isn’t being stifled given that it’s grabbed what Mozilla acknowledges to be a 20% market share.

Mozilla isn’t going to win friends doing this, in fact, I think it’s likely to make enemies, and the best upshot it can expect won’t be any better than the “N” solution that was adopted to solve the bundling of Windows Media Player.

Thoughts?

Adrian Kingsley-HughesAdrian is a technology journalist and author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology. He also runs a popular blog called The PC Doctor. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations

Want to get in touch? Got a tip? Feel free to drop me a note! I ALWAYS respect anonymity. I'm also on Twitter (@the_pc_doc)

Right to Reply: Should any industry representatives wish to comment on any posts on Hardware 2.0, I will be happy to publish their reply verbatim on this blog.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 192 Talkback(s)
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?
Well first off Windows and IE are put out by the same people so i can see why Windows would have IE. But i tend to think that Windows should have a small version of IE installed. It can't have no brow... (Read the rest)
Posted by: rjaffeux@... Posted on: 04/04/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
oops  mtgarden | 02/11/09
I agree ...  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 02/11/09
People should speak their conscience  emcauley | 02/25/09
Avoid confrontation?  tikigawd | 02/25/09
I strongly disagree  emcauley | 02/25/09
Um... WOW  tikigawd | 02/25/09
Are you familiar with  emcauley | 02/25/09
@emcauley: Friends  tikigawd | 02/26/09
You obfuscate  dougbeer | 02/26/09
I'll have to agree  LegendsOfBatman | 02/25/09
Tikigawd has it wrong.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/26/09
They made it!  dougbeer | 02/26/09
Mozilla FireFox vs IE  jlhausmann | 02/25/09
Not about confrontation  williamacole@... | 02/26/09
Yeah! What he said.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/26/09
No you don't  dougbeer | 02/27/09
No don't sit by  dougbeer | 02/26/09
My Question Is, Why Are We All Not In on This?  Seamus O'Brog | 02/25/09
Seamus is a thief  dougbeer | 02/27/09
Is Mozilla imploding?  honeymonster | 02/11/09
"It is sad, really."  kozmcrae | 02/11/09
No kidding, huh?  MGP2 | 02/11/09
Yes it does.  kozmcrae | 02/11/09
I guess one good turn deserved another  MGP2 | 02/11/09
"inject a little bit of reality by way of logic"  kozmcrae | 02/12/09
Considering Firefox was at 0% just a few years ago...  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 02/13/09
Firefox will sink soon  dougbeer | 02/27/09
Firefox  mjolnar@... | 02/25/09
If MS...  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
Standards?  dougbeer | 02/27/09
MS standards...  Dave32265 | 02/27/09
No company follows all the standards  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
Microsoft codes websites, too?  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
No, it isn't, it is just puting pressure on the patent trolls  InAction Man | 02/11/09
trolls  dougbeer | 02/27/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Frihet | 02/11/09
Not so  Alan Smithie | 02/11/09
Patents are bad for business?  dougbeer | 02/27/09
MS uses every dirty trick  Alan Smithie | 02/11/09
I don't think anyone's feeling sorry for MS  Michael Kelly | 02/11/09
MS have a history  Alan Smithie | 02/11/09
Don't Agree  ksarkies@... | 02/25/09
YES!  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
Disregard (nt)  enduser_z | 02/11/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  amreldib | 02/11/09
Amicus curiae  djchandler | 02/11/09
HEAR, HEAR  Sagax- | 02/12/09
If this were really just about browsers, I would say yes.  enduser_z | 02/11/09
Yep  Alan Smithie | 02/11/09
And with that strategy...  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 02/13/09
Tin foil hats will be passed out immediatly.  CrashPad | 02/25/09
Ever heard of...  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
Best remedy; spin off non OS divisions of MS.  enduser_z | 02/11/09
Re: Best remedy; spin off non OS divisions of MS.  PottHead | 02/25/09
I don't understand...  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  dsljay | 02/11/09
So you let a lawsuit...  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 02/13/09
A matter of principle...  CrashPad | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  hgh9mrp@... | 02/11/09
That makes ...  CrashPad | 02/25/09
Is Mozilla desperate or used ?  timiteh | 02/11/09
Over 44% of firefox users are in Europe  InAction Man | 02/11/09
got a source?  rtk | 02/11/09
44% in Europe  dougbeer | 02/27/09
This is Antitrust mess is as foolish as it can get  johnlsl | 02/11/09
No, it's not. The main points enclosed.  TripleII | 02/11/09
Why not go after Apple and Linux then. For the same reason as Microsoft!  tconner07 | 02/12/09
Re : Why not Apple and Linux?  pravin3832 | 02/13/09
Most of the browers in Linux are open source  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 02/13/09
Re; Why not go after Apple and Linux then.  hkommedal | 02/17/09
well Duh  rparker009 | 02/25/09
Don't know about Apple...  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
I appreciate that  LegendsOfBatman | 02/25/09
NO it's not? TripleII  dougbeer | 02/27/09
There is a bit of a difference...  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
A difference?  dougbeer | 02/27/09
LOL  Dave32265 | 02/27/09
Far more to lose than they can ever gain.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 02/11/09
Right;-)  Richard Flude | 02/11/09
stop drinking the coolaid  rparker009 | 02/25/09
Think about it though  Robert Crocker | 02/12/09
Does no one remember how this started?  bswiss | 02/11/09
One small quibble.....  nbahn | 02/12/09
No wonder. They could not grab it after it became open source. (nt)  hkommedal | 02/17/09
I call bullocks on this one...  CrashPad | 02/25/09
Netscape WAS TOO INNOVATIVE  PMC-CON | 02/25/09
Something you left out...  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
Ok then  rparker009 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Byterat | 02/12/09
How on earth can you call that competing in an open market ?  hkommedal | 02/17/09
Except  rtk | 02/17/09
And yet...  zkiwi | 02/25/09
re: and yet  rtk | 02/25/09
Oh?  zkiwi | 02/26/09
Nope, reread my post  rtk | 02/26/09
Seeing as...  zkiwi | 02/26/09
Gotta start somewhere.  rtk | 02/27/09
Update?  dougbeer | 02/27/09
Nothing happened to Linux  zkiwi | 02/27/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  trenchsol | 02/12/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  lektron | 02/12/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  lektron | 02/12/09
The problem with IE  mhenriday | 02/12/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  chuck.russell@... | 02/12/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  suemccartin | 02/12/09
Bundle, but don't force...  darkhamr@... | 02/12/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  pico_D | 02/12/09
The tide comes in..  3dguru | 02/15/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Varzil | 02/16/09
Not so ! You can REMOVE Konqueror with no other  hkommedal | 02/17/09
Sounds like it should be a free for all  locator | 02/18/09
You might read MS comments on this.  CrashPad | 02/25/09
And Yet what do the facts show??  edgreywolf | 02/26/09
What about Linux or Apple?  drewitz@... | 02/25/09
"does microsoft have to include every browser on the market? "  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  CrashPad | 02/25/09
Let Microsoft embed their browser!  JSieber | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  pwilletts@... | 02/25/09
Completely agree with your sarcasm...  JSieber | 02/25/09
And what about Safari?  charley cross | 02/25/09
Anti-Trust Complaint?  rmark@... | 02/25/09
Winers  morgan66 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  allen@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Nivekv | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  markbothwell@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  shan1950 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  computekslair | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Ruffyworld | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  gaelicfog@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  dskaggs_1@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  clhd@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  civbaron@... | 02/25/09
Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a D..  A1 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  MultiMike | 02/25/09
Would like some background  MSBassSinger | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  smith_jim@... | 02/25/09
Simple Solution - Let the Consumer decide!!!  sdc100 | 02/25/09
You mean that they should legislate to protect morons?  pebear | 02/25/09
Re: You mean that they should legislate to protect morons?  sdc100 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  jwhite333 | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  davidlewis7 | 02/25/09
Diagree - I want IE included in the OS  glenndjones@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  adrianbau | 02/25/09
My only reason to use IE  sdc100 | 02/25/09
For free  joe.smetona@... | 02/26/09
Thank you Thank you Thank you  sdc100 | 02/26/09
Safari is included in the Mac OS  AdamzP | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  raineyb@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  dasprem@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  varick | 02/25/09
It's unfair that Firefox is bundled with most Linux-based distros  Zach S | 02/25/09
Yeah, I totally agree with the upstair...  Shimmey | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  deowll | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  gwy1932@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  jonortrev | 02/25/09
LOL, Offer it????  Dave32265 | 02/25/09
Leave Microsoft alone  jpgeorgia | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  neverhome | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  steve_wineteer@... | 02/25/09
IE costs the world Millions per day in Productivity Losses.  tomkoltai | 02/25/09
175 Browser windows??  the.seeker@... | 02/25/09
Not even me  Zach S | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  the.seeker@... | 02/25/09
IE is unusable : Advertiser Vandalism  Joe Frisco | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  KingmanRoss | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  stevep5@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  alan@... | 02/25/09
Ubuntu...?  A_Pickle | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  mperkins3@... | 02/25/09
Mozilla  jshewsbury@... | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  LegendsOfBatman | 02/25/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  Kharia | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  warren.chirhart@... | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  budcunnally@... | 02/26/09
A sign of the times. Mozilla has made the grade.  joe.smetona@... | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  johanlast | 02/26/09
To what advantage?  rtk | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  virg | 02/26/09
Install Your Web Browser of Choice  ceh4702 | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  ceh4702 | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  sodabob@... | 02/26/09
Mozilla is helping Europe blackmail America  30YrVet | 02/26/09
Weve damaged ourselves  support@... | 02/26/09
Come back to REALITY!!  edgreywolf | 02/26/09
Bundled? Bad Example...  edgreywolf | 02/26/09
IE 6 is available for Linux.  joe.smetona@... | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  birdmaniw | 02/26/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  pouncingcat@... | 02/26/09
Who cares?  sinephase | 02/27/09
Mozilla should weigh in  rahbm | 02/28/09
Evil Microsoft  az_nemesis | 03/05/09
RE: Should Mozilla stay out of the whole IE/EU antitrust mess?  rjaffeux@... | 04/04/09

What do you think?

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