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November 5th, 2007

This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer

Posted by Adrian Kingsley-Hughes @ 7:08 pm

Categories: Apple, My Leopard Experience

Tags: Microsoft Windows Vista, Bug, Microsoft Windows Vista (Longhorn), Operating Systems, Microsoft Windows, Software, Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

In this blog I’ve highlighted a number of Vista related bugs, some of which are trivial, others pretty serious, but today I’ve come across a bug in Leopard that beats anything Microsoft has to offer in Vista hands down - this bug is serious because it causes widespread data loss, and it’s easy to replicate.

The issue has been covered in detail over on Tom Karpik’s blog.  Here’s the lowdown on this bug:

Leopard’s Finder has a glaring bug in its directory-moving code, leading to horrendous data loss if a destination volume disappears while a move operation is in action. I first came across it when Samba crashed while I was moving a directory from my desktop over to a Samba mount on my FreeBSD server.

So, you use Finder to pick a folder to move to a different volume and start the moving process.  If however, something happens to cause that volume to go offline during the move process then your original copy of the data in the folder that you were moving is deleted as though the move process was completed successfully.  Bye-bye data.  Any files not moved to the destination volume are lost.  I’m guessing that the OS assumes that the move operation has completed correctly and cleans up after itself, unwittingly deleting files that haven’t been moved. 

This is the sort of bug that’ll make you appreciate that you took the time to become acquainted with Time Machine.

I’ve replicated this bug on my install of Leopard following Karpik’s instructions and the problem seems to occur every time without fail.  This bug would make me vary wary of moving data across a wireless network to a remote system - an interruption to the WiFi connection could nuke your data. 

I’m hoping to take a closer look at the file system tomorrow to see if the files are still hidden there somewhere - maybe in a temp file or something.  I also want to examine other circumstances when this error could kick in - for example, does this happens when moving between the file system and USB flash drives?

I’m seriously beginning to wonder if anyone beta tested this OS. 

Thoughts?

Adrian Kingsley-HughesAdrian is a technology journalist and author who has devoted over a decade to helping users get the most from technology. He also runs a popular blog called The PC Doctor. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations

Want to get in touch? Got a tip? Feel free to drop me a note! I ALWAYS respect anonymity. I'm also on Twitter (@the_pc_doc)

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 374 Talkback(s)
(Better) Linux beats anything that either Apple or Microsoft has to offer!
and this is why we own Linux. Someone find a bug like that in Linux.
Watch it get fixed within two weeks' time.
Linux updates too much too quickly for petty little errors like this to occur on its systems.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: LinuxOwns Posted on: 12/05/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
in theory...  lostarchitect | 11/05/07
oh, i see.  lostarchitect | 11/05/07
Vista: loosing files when copying more than 16'384 files since last boot  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Nice try  rtk | 11/06/07
what's important ? Nice "goodies" or a well working file system ?  sloer@... | 11/06/07
wahuh?  rtk | 11/06/07
Nice try  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Source?  rtk | 11/06/07
Vista DOES cause data loss !  sloer@... | 11/06/07
No, it doesn't.  rtk | 11/06/07
Yes, Vista DOES cause data loss ... here 2 Sources  sloer@... | 11/06/07
re: sloer@  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
data loss - i say it NOW if you wish  sloer@... | 11/06/07
The links and complaint are odd.  notsofast | 11/06/07
So I copy my files...  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 11/06/07
delete AFTER checking if anything is there  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Out of Memory does not cause data loss ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Vista causes data loss  sloer@... | 11/06/07
No, it doesn't.  rtk | 11/06/07
Duhhh...  thx-1138_@... | 11/07/07
bug vs feature  xwerfx | 11/06/07
How long does it takes to fix it ? Leopard versus Vista !  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Spell much?  kzm1 | 11/06/07
Vista: losing files ... not loosing files (sorry)  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Microsoft already fixed it  ryanmc | 11/06/07
It's NOT AT ALL relosved by Microsoft !!!  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Where does that support link say...  xuniL_z | 11/07/07
Microsoft does not tell all they know, of course  sloer@... | 11/07/07
You didn't notice -  spacecase2 | 11/07/07
Wow....16,384 files copyied at one time  laura.b | 11/06/07
True colors at last  frgough | 11/06/07
no lost data or crashing  ryanmc | 11/06/07
Vista: data lost or not lost - who knows ?  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Well there was never any doubt ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
any doubt with me ?  sloer@... | 11/06/07
There is no doubt and you are the ...  ShadeTree | 11/07/07
Sorry, i'm new on Mac's --- just kicking out Microsoft's Buxx-Shxx  sloer@... | 11/07/07
You're right  laura.b | 11/07/07
But...  thx-1138_@... | 11/08/07
laura.b tells be how many files i should copy !  sloer@... | 11/06/07
When I backup my files I use Windows backup ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
**** in - **** out  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Based on your logic  xuniL_z | 11/09/07
Ummm....  AmraLeo | 11/07/07
what's the title of this blog ?  sloer@... | 11/07/07
It kind of does  laura.b | 11/07/07
Cumulative copy -  spacecase2 | 11/07/07
laura.b insists: 16'384 files are acceptable limit !!!  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Enoujgh of this canard already.  rtk | 11/07/07
I am starting to wonder  laura.b | 11/07/07
OK, with 16'385 files i am asking too much from Vista  sloer@... | 11/07/07
ponder ... upset about ... i make a break  sloer@... | 11/07/07
when I backup  Hrothgar - PCLinuxOS User | 11/06/07
Keep on checking your Vista-backups !  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Files lost - hourglass spinning -  spacecase2 | 11/07/07
But let me guess....  rtk | 11/07/07
Can you replicate that bug.  Species8472 | 11/07/07
I can, anytime  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Supposed to be -  spacecase2 | 11/07/07
"Move", or "Copy"  orthocross | 11/07/07
Moving files, not copying them?  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/05/07
Hold down the Command key while dragging files to a different volume  Kid Icarus-21097050858087920245213802267493 | 11/06/07
Buzzzz, guess again...  comp_indiana | 11/06/07
Yes, you can...  rtk | 11/06/07
Read the article and come back ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Same with win2000 and XP.  xuniL_z | 11/07/07
So I see that you ARE moving the files  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/05/07
Stop trying to spin this  toadlife | 11/05/07
Apple cant make Mistakes  5ri | 11/06/07
I don't know about downplay  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
I think it's sad  fredsmith6 | 11/06/07
They have no choice but to spin this.  ye | 11/06/07
Nobody is spinning  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
Happens in Windows too  WeedHopper | 11/06/07
It does not happen with Windows!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Watched it happen  WeedHopper | 11/06/07
I have one thing to say to that!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Last response  WeedHopper | 11/06/07
I and the others responding to your claim ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
And why is it not plausible??  fadzlan@... | 11/06/07
Wise advice  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
Garbage!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Hmmm...  Selvarin | 11/06/07
I cannot replicate this no matter how hard  xuniL_z | 11/07/07
You can't say that with any authority  ShadowT | 11/06/07
there is a difference  tech_ed@... | 11/06/07
I can say it with authority.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Steps  ShadowT | 11/06/07
Doesn't help at all  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
The depth of ignorance  Freebird54 | 11/06/07
In the wonderful world of software...  fadzlan@... | 11/06/07
I work for one of the top 3 ...  ShadeTree | 11/07/07
Freebird54. Let's put this in context.  xuniL_z | 11/09/07
I just tested it  Badgered | 11/06/07
Confirmed  frgough | 11/06/07
that is ugly  Badgered | 11/06/07
No kidding  frgough | 11/06/07
Moving data in a fog  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
Simple.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
probably because  Badgered | 11/06/07
Verifying a copy in Mac OS X is really simple  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/07/07
re: Verifying a copy  Badgered | 11/07/07
Not so easy ...  ShadeTree | 11/07/07
re: Verifying a copy in Mac OS X is really simple  rtk | 11/07/07
You can play russian roulette with your data if you want  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
Hear hear!  musician88 | 11/06/07
Funny you mention Time Machine .  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Hardly...  musician88 | 11/06/07
Your motives are obvious.  rtk | 11/06/07
The facts are what this article and the one about ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Shady Tree  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/06/07
Your joking, right?  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
I back up my data  toadlife | 11/06/07
Oh I agree  Badgered | 11/07/07
Wrong  lotisb | 11/06/07
It is exactly the same process as ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
I did a cut/paste  aussieblnd@... | 11/06/07
(nt)No. Cut and Paste moves files in Windows.  toadlife | 11/06/07
Not for geeks only  johns1000@... | 11/06/07
fI agree...  BitTwiddler | 11/06/07
Another Apple Apologist Heard from.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Apple Apologists  Harry Bardal | 11/06/07
Sorry Harry, that isn't good enough!!  NonZealot | 11/06/07
Finally a voice of reason  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Reasons a Person would MOVE rather than COPY  racingmustang | 11/06/07
Not True!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
You're kidding right?  Badgered | 11/06/07
Says who?  Chad_z | 11/06/07
repeat  kriskl | 11/06/07
OSX doesnt move the files when on the same volume...  mrOSX | 11/06/07
Except that the problem described ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  GeneticGenesis | 11/06/07
Microsoft Shill on the loose  imacwesker | 11/06/07
Apple shill responds.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Apple Shill got a brain  imacwesker | 11/06/07
Damage your drive?  NonZealot | 11/06/07
External hard drives ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
And in addition to this,  Azriphale | 11/06/07
holy COW guys. think from that guys perspective...  dbkelley@... | 11/06/07
Do you know HOW to read?  EndUserMike | 11/06/07
Don't kick an iMac!!  NonZealot | 11/06/07
The ShadeTree and NonZealot tag team are at it again  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/07/07
ah, don't worry  xuniL_z | 11/07/07
Funny. You sound like me  YinToYourYang-22527499 | 11/07/07
That would make you....  xuniL_z | 11/08/07
I don't know if you have noticed but  Intellihence | 11/12/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  bahamude | 11/06/07
Except this doesn't occur in Windows.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Except it does  bahamude | 11/06/07
It does not...  robert.mare@... | 11/06/07
Wrong!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
how to lose data in Windows  bahamude | 11/06/07
So, I guess you'll have to trouble posting a video of this bug on windows?  rtk | 11/06/07
Bug hunt or goose chase?  bahamude | 11/06/07
Nice deflection  rtk | 11/06/07
Never had it happen in Windows  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
Never had it happen  bahamude | 11/06/07
to bahamude  Badgered | 11/06/07
More to bahamude  FatherJ | 11/06/07
Clarification  bahamude | 11/08/07
Personal experience != Expertise  FatherJ | 11/06/07
thank you  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
Correction...  FatherJ | 11/06/07
Faith != Expertise  bahamude | 11/06/07
re: bahamude  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
re:Shadetree  bahamude | 11/08/07
Apples to oranges  beatphreek | 11/06/07
It is really very simple.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Reworded for reality  Freebird54 | 11/06/07
Cameras do not necessarily use windows move command functionality  Lfraz | 11/06/07
uh.  Azriphale | 11/06/07
Clarification  bahamude | 11/08/07
Huh?  tech_ed@... | 11/06/07
Move  bahamude | 11/08/07
MAN!!!!  Laff | 11/06/07
Vista from the very beginning did not ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Yeah real serious.... oh wait not so much.  Laff | 11/06/07
Your ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
You are too funny my friend.....too funny:P  Laff | 11/06/07
If it was your data.  rtk | 11/06/07
Tru Dat  Laff | 11/06/07
Wireless Users  cywelchjr | 11/06/07
Nor does your "Average" user both to make backups  Laff | 11/06/07
Did you read that in the Apple Apologist Manual?  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
It is a bug that is not in question even by the likes of me..:P  Laff | 11/06/07
READ it!?! Mac users don't read manuals!!!!  Laff | 11/06/07
Okay, Jim...  laura.b | 11/06/07
And I agree with you Laura...:P  Laff | 11/06/07
Agree 100%  laura.b | 11/06/07
Are you kidding?  xuniL_z | 11/06/07
I'm never really sure if I'm serious or not....  Laff | 11/07/07
Excellent post! We are just trying to help you out.  NonZealot | 11/07/07
You call this abuse...dude you don't know abuse:P  James Quinn | 11/07/07
Well tell us then  xuniL_z | 11/08/07
The almighty zealot has spoken .  Intellihence | 11/12/07
Not following?  xuniL_z | 11/08/07
So, let me get this straight  frgough | 11/06/07
You don't have to modify default behavior ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
The DEFAULT behavior  frgough | 11/06/07
The default behavior when pressing the Command key ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Nice try  frgough | 11/06/07
No data to support the claim ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
It's a very safe assumption  frgough | 11/06/07
Partially correct!  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Supporting Data  frgough | 11/06/07
You are ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Severity  frgough | 11/06/07
Why is it that Windows users are guilty of ...  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Thinking of someone else.  frgough | 11/06/07
Nice spin  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Spinning round and round  frgough | 11/06/07
Which is it?  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Why even report this so prominently?  musician88 | 11/06/07
What are you suggesting?  rtk | 11/06/07
Nothing so dark and conspiratorial  frgough | 11/06/07
IT'S THE USER'S FAULT!!  NonZealot | 11/06/07
I didn't say it was the user's fault.  frgough | 11/06/07
This has nothing to do with Vista  FatherJ | 11/06/07
Please take time to actually read  frgough | 11/06/07
And everything is right in the world  xuniL_z | 11/09/07
Let's look at this rationally, shall we?  NetArch. | 11/06/07
IT'S SAMBA'S FAULT!!  NonZealot | 11/06/07
No, it's NOT SAMBA'S FAULT, It's APPLE's fault  royalstream | 11/06/07
This bug isn't just on SAMBA drives  rtk | 11/06/07
Nope, it's a Leopard bug  frgough | 11/06/07
On other words...  bahamude | 11/06/07
Of the 2 million Leopard sales so far...  rtk | 11/06/07
Is that just an example or better put how would anyone  Laff | 11/06/07
The poster claimed this would "only" affect 0.1%.  rtk | 11/06/07
Oh and I doubt it will be that many...  Laff | 11/06/07
Pagan Jim's technique  xuniL_z | 11/08/07
Message has been deleted.  NonZealot | 11/08/07
Message has been deleted.  xuniL_z | 11/09/07
Message has been deleted.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Message has been deleted.  frgough | 11/06/07
Message has been deleted.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Apple Users  cywelchjr | 11/06/07
Agreed  bahamude | 11/06/07
Message has been deleted.  RocketEater | 11/06/07
Looks like no one knows what's going on  bahamude | 11/08/07
Good point! (NT)  JCitizen | 11/06/07
How does MOVE REALLY work?  bahamude | 11/06/07
IT'S WINDOWS' FAULT!!  NonZealot | 11/06/07
It shouldn't  rapson | 11/06/07
IT'  bahamude | 11/06/07
No.  Azriphale | 11/06/07
Green light over the air...  royalstream | 11/06/07
LOL!  RocketEater | 11/06/07
Why COPY and DELETE is not OK to replace MOVE  racingmustang | 11/06/07
gotta know your systems capabilities  jreidthompson | 11/06/07
Creation date myth  musician88 | 11/06/07
Agreed ...  royalstream | 11/06/07
Even more critical  tech_ed@... | 11/06/07
Good Call Ed!  racingmustang | 11/06/07
Agreed but Mac to Win?  bahamude | 11/09/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  jim@... | 11/06/07
I'm not sure why I bother posting these comments...  Bugbyte | 11/06/07
Not really  rapson | 11/06/07
Funny  musician88 | 11/06/07
Whew! Thanks! Boy what a relief!....  JCitizen | 11/06/07
It does happen  bahamude | 11/06/07
doesn't happen  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
Huh?  jragosta | 11/06/07
not at all  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
not a very good IT manager  tech_ed@... | 11/06/07
To Ed  bahamude | 11/08/07
Source Machine crash  cywelchjr | 11/06/07
Serious Issue.  bmilton@... | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  Cobra031 | 11/06/07
And you call that a bug?  musician88 | 11/06/07
Here is why...  racingmustang | 11/06/07
No, this is a bug.  frgough | 11/06/07
uhhh...  tech_ed@... | 11/06/07
You really are full of it.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
?  musician88 | 11/06/07
Wrong again.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Isn't it actually tied?  TripleII | 11/06/07
For sure..  JCitizen | 11/06/07
Silent copy failure  frgough | 11/06/07
It depends.  TripleII | 11/06/07
In my opinion  frgough | 11/06/07
Yep, both are severe.  TripleII | 11/06/07
It happens on Windows!!  johndifo | 11/06/07
Looking forward to watching the video.  rtk | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  jeff.page@... | 11/06/07
while you may understand that  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  sloer@... | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  mollenhourb@... | 11/06/07
This is a ridiculous FUD based article  comp_indiana | 11/06/07
Interesting  Too_Busy_To_Be_Here | 11/06/07
It was a Mac expert that first discovered the issue.  ShadeTree | 11/06/07
Leopard Creation and modify Dates - SAFE!  musician88 | 11/06/07
never heard of a write cache I guess....  rtk | 11/06/07
Community?  musician88 | 11/06/07
Ridicoulous to say: don't use MOVE  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Better put don't move on fragile connections....:P  Laff | 11/06/07
Horrible bug found in Vista...  comp_indiana | 11/06/07
aside from the fact that  Paul Fletcher | 11/06/07
Here is the issue...  Too_Busy_To_Be_Here | 11/06/07
STOP MOVING FILES AROUND  WarrenZ | 11/06/07
Data loss never acceptable...  SumoDad | 11/06/07
One hopes.  jeremyc@... | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  union pier | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  OKJoe | 11/06/07
OK, let's call it what it is...  Too_Busy_To_Be_Here | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  Atilla the Snail | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  phatkat | 11/06/07
There is one way in windows 3rd party apps  Lfraz | 11/06/07
please give Sources about WD error !  sloer@... | 11/06/07
Can Leopard actually do anything right?  Scrat | 11/06/07
Where were you?  frgough | 11/06/07
I was trying to find  Badgered | 11/07/07
this happened in older OS versions too  Hobyx | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  tahoeblue | 11/06/07
is there an rsync version for OSX?  A.Lizard | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  The Ash Man | 11/06/07
WWwwhhhhaaaaattt?  Crestview | 11/06/07
Read and Review  Immortalarena@... | 11/06/07
ridiculous !!!  sloer@... | 11/07/07
do you honestly believe yelling helps your cause?  rtk | 11/07/07
I agree, yelling does not help mutch - unfortunately  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Logic would work better...  rtk | 11/07/07
Additional Testing needed etc. - probably written by Microsoft's lawyers !  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Jesus, worked yourself into a real lather, eh?  rtk | 11/07/07
lather YES, Jesus NO  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Lather, rinse, and repeat... endlessly.  rtk | 11/07/07
Data loss when copying a directory  brike@... | 11/06/07
OS WARS  becabill@... | 11/06/07
You bet  Chiatzu | 11/08/07
re: "...Leopard bug beats..."  Loggies | 11/06/07
RE: This Leopard bug beats anything Vista has to offer  daves1646 | 11/06/07
ALL versions of OS X have this SAME friggin bug  cartoonasaurus | 11/07/07
Proposal / RFC  sloer@... | 11/07/07
The Best Protection Against Losing Data  Cardhu | 11/07/07
Verify your backups !  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Solution for Poor Quality Software  johnfenjackson@... | 11/07/07
More crappy training, probably  JelMin | 11/07/07
who the heck MOVES files instead of COPYing them?  jgreene777@... | 11/07/07
Ummm, everyone?  rtk | 11/07/07
Is "ComputerWorld" known to be Mac biased?  Laff | 11/07/07
Journalists by default  Paul Fletcher | 11/07/07
How so?  Laff | 11/07/07
Well, if not before, they are now!  Sonny Maou | 11/07/07
While I agree it is a problem and yes a bug still I  Laff | 11/07/07
Leopard has shown failure in core areas  Sonny Maou | 11/07/07
Look repeated the same bug in various ways does  Laff | 11/07/07
I'm sure Apple would appreciate it if you let them in on the secret  Sonny Maou | 11/07/07
Hmmmm now I have an iMac and yet the only  James Quinn | 11/07/07
Only Apple users apologize for free  NonZealot | 11/07/07
I'm not the guy who made that statement....  James Quinn | 11/07/07
That is how you would do it?  xuniL_z | 11/09/07
Finnie is, not sure about computerworld as a whole.  rtk | 11/07/07
How do I know this?  Laff | 11/07/07
Uhmmmm - does anyone remember -  spacecase2 | 11/07/07
doesnt happen  Paul Fletcher | 11/07/07
This is UNIX  dlmeyer@... | 11/07/07
"Nice Try..."  orthocross | 11/07/07
Apple's Turn In The Barrel...  Kromaethius | 11/07/07
"Leaper"?  NonZealot | 11/07/07
Except  Hamlet_z | 11/07/07
YOU beat anything Leopard AND Vista have to offer  sloer@... | 11/07/07
What is a Zealot ?  sloer@... | 11/07/07
Not true ... monetary compensation not needed  TG2 | 11/08/07
One problem that I see with your post...  Laff | 11/08/07
Correct  bahamude | 11/08/07
I've seen data loss both on the local machine and ...  JCitizen | 11/09/07
Never buy a new OS right out the gate  DarthRidiculous | 11/11/07
Gerald, that's fine advice.  xuniL_z | 11/12/07
Would never upgrade to Leopard  kimsuhome | 11/12/07
This is why...  John Musbach | 11/13/07
Too bad OS X forces you to do that  NonZealot | 11/13/07
This (fast) Apple response beats anything Microsoft has to offer  sloer@... | 11/21/07
Ease of exploit  dbisse@... | 12/05/07
(Better) Linux beats anything that either Apple or Microsoft has to offer!  LinuxOwns | 12/05/07

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