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November 3rd, 2008

Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 5:24 am

Categories: Corporate strategy, Multicore/distributed computing, PDC 2008, Research, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2 /("Windows 7 Server"), Windows client, Windows server

Tags: Microsoft Windows 7, Microsoft Corp., Microsoft Windows, Operating Systems, Software, Mary Jo Foley, MinWin

MinWin — the core of the Windows operating system — is, indeed, in Windows 7. It’s just not part of it in the way many people (including yours truly) initially assumed.

Technical Fellow Mark Russinovich, who detailed via a Channel 9 Webcast last week how Windows 7 would  run on up to 256 processors, tackled yet again the MinWin bugaboo during that same episode.

(I say “bugaboo” because ever since Microsoft officials first discussed MinWin, there’s been confusion over whether it would be part of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2. Nervous about setting off customers’ alarm bells around more low-level changes to Windows, like happened with Vista, the Microsoft brass have been repeating that Windows 7’s kernel won’t deviate from Vista’s, so all drivers and apps that work on Vista should work on 7.)

What, exactly, is MinWin? That’s been another thorny issue that Microsoft execs have been reticent to detangle. After listening to Russinovich, here’s my best attempt at explaining the concept:

MinWin is the core of Windows, but it is not the same as Windows Server Core. If you could “cut” Windows and shuffle around some application programming interfaces (APIs) so that it would be a standalone, bootable, testable mini OS, MinWin is what it would look like. It’s the heart of Windows, organized in a way so that none of the included parts has any dependencies on anything outside of MinWin.

As Russinovich noted, MinWin includes some kernel interfaces, but it is not simply the Windows kernel. Some part of the kernel32 implementation didn’t belong in MinWin, he said. After tinkering with what did/didn’t belong, the team ended up layering kernel32 on top of the Windows kernel base, he said.

Russinovich described MinWin as the bottom-most part of Windows. He also called it “Cutler’s NT,” meaning the core Windows operating system as developed by Microsoft Technical Fellow Dave Cutler. MinWin is about 25 MB on disk,  he said. It includes the executive subsystem, networking components and possibly file-system drivers (which sound like they are optional).

In the October 28 Webcast, Russinovich makes no bones about it: MinWin is part of the Windows 7 source code tree. He said that MinWin had just been loaded into the Windows 7 build tree.

What I’m still not 100 percent clear on: Will MinWin ship to customers as part of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008? (Could it be “in” the bits, but not turned on — kind of like the “Superbar” that is actually in the M3 pre-beta that Professional Developer Conference attendees got and blogger Rafael Rivera found a way to expose?) Or is MinWin simply an internal tool for Microsoft’s developers to use in designing future versions of Windows, which Microsoft is hoping to make more streamlined and less onerous to build?

“Now we can innovate in MinWin,” Russinovich said during the aforementioned Webcast, with no further explanation of how/when/where.

By “cleaning up” Windows by making the “layers” of the operating system more distinct and less interdependent, Microsoft is paving the way for being able to switch out parts of the operating system. Remember: RedHawk/MinSafe (a project in which Russinovich is involved) is about decoupling Win32 from Windows and replacing it with managed code.

Readers: Anyone have new observations or insights on MinWin to share, given the latest brain dump by Russinovich?

Mary Jo FoleyMary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. You can also follow Mary Jo on Twitter.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 65 Talkback(s)
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all
I have minwin and dont know how they did it but my win 7 is layer desighned and have found most drivers work but it has broken some,
xp will be gone.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: stdo57@... Posted on: 03/09/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Geee ......  Linux_4u! | 11/03/08
Hey, you're turning green....with envy.  transposeIT | 11/03/08
QDOS under the hood?  jefmud | 11/04/08
Dave Cutler's NT  daengbo | 11/04/08
Re: Dave Cutler's NT  steve.deller@... | 11/13/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  Michael L Jones | 11/03/08
You're right  Kaiwai | 11/03/08
MinWin is in Windows Vista as well in Windows 7 (same core of Vista)  qmlscycrajg | 11/03/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  Skalecki | 11/03/08
Defining MinWin  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 11/03/08
MinWin is not an edition of Windows, nor a product  de-void | 11/03/08
Absolutely Spot on  AuzzieBob | 11/05/08
No use trying to explain  Kaiwai | 11/03/08
That's now obvious.  Skalecki | 11/04/08
What's more interesting  Kaiwai | 11/05/08
Hmm ...  Yagotta B. Kidding | 11/03/08
OS7 Mac users have been there long ago happy  Silex | 11/03/08
Its there in the 6801 build  PB_z | 11/03/08
Could minwin be used for "instant on"?  escher007 | 11/03/08
Instant what on?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 11/03/08
MinOut and MinInt anyone?  SamCPP | 11/03/08
Windows already does "Instant On"  de-void | 11/04/08
Instant on?  martian@... | 11/05/08
MinWin  FiOS-Dave | 11/03/08
Heard this days ago already...  Kromaethius | 11/03/08
And it matters how?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/03/08
How this matters to users  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 11/03/08
Slimmer, less bloated *not* the aim  blu_vg@... | 11/03/08
Nice summary...  zkiwi | 11/03/08
I think thats a far stretch  No_Ax_to_Grind | 11/04/08
so misguided...  gav135 | 11/12/08
Try thinking of it as the foundation of the OS  deowll | 11/12/08
MJF: How can you "turn on/off" the kernel?  blu_vg@... | 11/03/08
Perhaps similar to booting into safe mode?  SamCPP | 11/03/08
MinWin still required  blu_vg@... | 11/03/08
RE: Once upon a time  Eeem | 11/03/08
Yep  de-void | 11/04/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  tburzio | 11/03/08
cool possibilities  nstuff | 11/03/08
Not kernel changes; MinWin is refactoring of core libraries  honeymonster | 11/03/08
Just restated what I did, but...  nstuff | 11/04/08
FAIL!  de-void | 11/04/08
No Suprise!  Windows Defender | 11/03/08
This exposes you  ravi16aug@... | 11/03/08
7 Deadly  jabailo1 | 11/03/08
Oh MS being innovative ?  Alan Smithie | 11/04/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  dbpreston | 11/04/08
silk purse  cmosentine@... | 11/04/08
Apple ...  de-void | 11/04/08
...repeat the past  cmosentine@... | 11/05/08
Russinovich clears the clouds...  Narg | 11/04/08
It's not a "thing." It's alteration of links between things.  BillDem | 11/04/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  myztry | 11/04/08
What MinWin enables  General C# | 11/04/08
this work is already started with Vista: MinWin is in Vista  qmlscycrajg | 11/05/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  thomasak001 | 11/05/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  VytautasB@... | 11/05/08
RE: Foley's farce  Brian G | 11/05/08
Minwin is just house cleaning with a fancy name  pixolut | 11/05/08
MinWin reminds me of the OSI model  hjacobson | 11/06/08
RE: MinWin is in Windows 7.. Will it be in Windows Mobile 7?  brian.ward | 11/13/08
Windows Mobile with a true Windows kernel  InformedComment | 11/27/08
think... hypervisor, but no parent partition  Spaq.Yetti@... | 11/13/08
It was kept at 6.1 for compatibility purposes...  Selvarin | 11/14/08
RE: Microsoft confirms MinWin is in Windows 7, after all  stdo57@... | 03/09/09

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