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November 12th, 2008

Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 5:24 am

Categories: Channel, OEMs, Resellers, System builders, Vista, WinHEC, Windows 7, Windows XP, Windows client

Tags: Microsoft Windows 7, Microsoft Windows, Operating Systems, Software, Mary Jo Foley, PC, PC Company, OEM, Microsoft Corp.

Is Microsoft going to take a revenue hit when it releases Windows 7 because of the changing mix of PCs in the market? That’s the expectation of many company watchers, though I have to admit I’m not quite so sure. Here’s why.

Even though Microsoft is trying to stir up excitement for Windows 7’s prospects on new (and most likely more expensive) multi-touch-enabled PCs, there is more interest among users and industry watchers around the next release of Windows running on netbooks. Microsoft officials demonstrated a full-fledged version (we don’t know which pre-beta build number) of Windows 7 running onan Asus Eee with 1 GB of RAM. Netbooks  — which I’ll use here to refer to low-cost, low-end PCs capable of running email and a Web browser, but little else — are quickly becoming an increasingly large part of the overall PC market.

Here’s where the speculation comes in. Many are assuming that because netbooks cost a few hundred dollars, Microsoft will charge netbook makers less per copy of Windows preloaded on these machines than they will charge OEMs for Windows 7 running on full-power laptops. They are basing this assumption on the (seemingly logical) conclusion that PC makers won’t be willing to pay one-fourth or more of the price per machine for the operating system.

Some also are basing their calculations on the fact that Microsoft admitted during its most recent earnings call that its Windows client business was down, in part, because the company is licensing the less-pricey Windows XP to netbook makers because Vista is too big to run on most netbooks. (A distinction lost on some: Microsoft’s revenues were down because XP is cheaper than Vista per copy — not because it charged netbook makers less than full-fledged PC makers per copy of Windows.)

Microsoft won’t talk publicly about how much it charges OEMs per copy of Windows they preload on new machines. As a result of the company’s settlement years ago with the U.S. Department of Justice, we do know that Microsoft can no longer use the price of Windows to discriminate against its top 20 PC maker partners. All of these partners pay the same per copy of Windows. (Below that top tier, there is more variance in pricing, based on volume of machines sold and other factors.)

“Getting an answer to what Microsoft charges an OEM is nearly impossible,” said Michael Cherry, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft. “Neither Microsoft nor the OEMs like to talk about this. Anecdotally, I have heard from the OEMs and Wall Street Analysts that the Windows OS could be the emost expensive single element in a PC. I have also heard people suggest it is the only element that never goes down in price. But I cannot vouch for the truth of these assertions.”

I’ve heard the same “anecdotes” as Cherry. Back in the Windows 95 days, I do know Microsoft was charging the top PC makers roughly $60 to $70  per copy of Windows on new machines. Each subsequent version of Windows typically cost OEMs a few dollars more — regardless of how much the PC sells for at retail/in volume. Microsoft argued that it was including more features and functionality in each new release, so even if consumers weren’t willing to pay more per PC, OEMs should have to cough up more money for each  new version of Windows.

Microsoft’s relationship with its PC-maker partners is not totally adversarial. With Windows Vista, for example, Microsoft and the OEMs were in cahoots to find a way to get users to buy “premium” PCs running “premium” releases of Windows. (A plan that backfired, by the way, as the ongoing class-action suit over “Windows Capable” has made all too clear.) With Windows 7, Microsoft and certain PC makers are looking to offset plummeting PC revenues with higher-priced touch-enabled PCs.

Once Windows 7 does launch — which increasingly looks like next next summer/fall — PC makers at both the high and low ends of the market will be jockeying for position, analyst Peter O’Kelly, pricinpal analyst with O’Kelly Consulting, notes. But that doesn’t mean Microsoft necessarily will take a revenue hit, he says.

“I frankly think it’s going to be a very different landscape in the ‘netbook’ market next year, especially after Windows 7 is released, with the incumbent hardware vendors taking the lead, and vendors such as Asus having to get creative in terms of feature/function and price differentiation.  While small form factor laptops were priced as premium business road warrior PCs a year or two ago, at this point Dell, HP, and others are very aggressively competing for what most people would define as the ‘netbook’ market.

“So while Microsoft may need to get more aggressive on pricing, e.g., if a hardware vendor is able to deliver a compelling non-Windows ‘netbook,’ I expect the pricing will probably stay in line with other Windows form factor pricing/licensing models.”

There’s just under a year to go (if the Softies get Windows 7 out for back-to-school 2009) until we see how this all plays out. What are your predictions? Will Microsoft be willing to do what it seemingly has never done before and reduce the price-per-copy it charges PC makers for Windows? Will users be willing to pay a premium for touch PCs?

Mary Jo FoleyMary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. You can also follow Mary Jo on Twitter.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 253 Talkback(s)
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation
I think this whole post and the comments in it by the people here need to rethink what their ideas of performance and what exactly you can do with a netbook..

To spark some thought I posted a b... (Read the rest)
Posted by: DonBurnett Posted on: 12/09/08 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Linux will drive the price down  calumg | 11/12/08
Eh?  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
Just to clue you in...  UserLand | 11/12/08
Rather then speculate .....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
Let's see...  UserLand | 11/12/08
Price and stability will be W7 killers if not good.  BillDem | 11/12/08
You could of just said ...  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
I'm not surprised.  kozmcrae | 11/12/08
reading blogs  coffeeshark | 11/12/08
uh oh....  Samic | 11/12/08
Post 'em!  UserLand | 11/12/08
Well since 70%...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
And?  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Nope...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
@Sleeper - Uh?  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Decrease from what?  kozmcrae | 11/12/08
Tut Tut, Mister Meister...  Sleeper Service | 11/13/08
@Sleeper - Logic problems?  MisterMiester | 11/13/08
Which would be fine except...  Sleeper Service | 11/13/08
Personal experience  daengbo | 11/12/08
Got some benchmarks I ran  willpd13 | 11/14/08
You tell half the story, and not very well  Cayble | 11/12/08
xp on a netbook  mswift@... | 11/12/08
XP on a Laptop  Dave-8128 | 11/12/08
Thanks for the info, Dave.  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
Very true  Ole Man | 11/13/08
ComputerWorld is anti-Microsoft  General C# | 11/12/08
There is no such thing as "unbiased" regarding MS  kozmcrae | 11/12/08
Considering XP originally ran ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
It's how windows uses the "disk".  bperrybap@... | 11/12/08
By 'clue me in'...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
What I do know.  deowll | 11/12/08
Re : Eh?  calumg | 11/12/08
Actually...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
Or maybe Windows 7 Starter Edition ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
And why intentionally cripple something? If you have a lean and mean OS,  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
You mean like netbooks are crippling the Linux kernel?  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
Hardware crippling a kernel, that is a new one! The point is, the latest  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
The point is that you've  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
Well, we know that Linux scales up and down very well. The jury is still  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Well, if you really mean that.....  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
xuniL_z: Wagner is the one that suggested a crippled version of Win7.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
You said ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Wagner: we do not need to use technical advances for faster processors and  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
xuniL_z: Starter Addition == Crippled. With Linux, you can have a lean and  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Donnie, I will listen to you, but first you have to admit....  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
It's called scalability ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Ok, here we go again.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
xuniL_z: You and Wagner baby are the only ones confused. Why put a crippled  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
@xuniL_z - No there's a difference ....  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
@Donnie, stop lying.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
@mister meister  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
xuniL_z: You're mistaken ... again  daengbo | 11/12/08
Exactly!  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
Because it is faster, safer, and better adapted to this form factor. The XP  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Same old refrain ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
ShadyBoy. That 4x figure was a single manufacturer that did everything  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
The 4x return rate is not connected to any manufacturer hardware...  transposeIT | 11/13/08
Well, first ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
Facts? Hardly Dietrich.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
You may not like the facts, but, Linux IS on 30% of Netbooks, and you do  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
They must not be using them ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
But I understand that the RETURN RATE ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
The high return rates are for a single vendor, and is probably not related  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
That makes little sense  GuidingLight | 11/12/08
Is there any evidense that return rates are high in general for netbooks???  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
From what I understand, they are ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Wagner: we know you don't understand very much. Thats why they kicked you  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
They also wouldn't be ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
Acer and Asus talking up Linux.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
MSI: returns directly related to Linux  coffeeshark | 11/12/08
Mark, only you would throw away ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
I have no qualms about Linux ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Premium for portability?  el56 | 11/12/08
The return rate issue  el56 | 11/12/08
"Eating into revenues" requires taking existing markeshare.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
The point is that Linux is eating into Microsoft's revenues. Users shift to  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
That is not the point. Not even close......  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
Wow, MS has much lower market share in a new and rapidly expanding form  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Yes Donnie.  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
doh!  mswift@... | 11/12/08
Actually, for some real work, Linux is best. It runs better, and you have  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Real Work?  mswift@... | 11/12/08
If you are using legacy software, you might have a problem. Most people  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Aside from customers that is, Donnie.  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
Some Evidence  tmb_ayebe | 11/12/08
Sure....some people like you...  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
The Grieving Process  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
Meanwhile.....  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
You misunderstand Linux  calumg | 11/12/08
Compiling the kernel  DaveN_MVP | 11/12/08
Re: Compiling the kernel  goldenpanther | 11/12/08
FAIL!  de-void | 11/14/08
Most people...  gypkap@... | 11/12/08
The users won't recompile...  Olorin_z | 11/12/08
No, you misunderstood actually.  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
The most recent Linu kernel is faster and leaner than the older ones.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
"Linux has so much More share"  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
Another FAIL! wink  de-void | 11/14/08
Actually, Windows don't need to be crippled  Ole Man | 11/12/08
Wouldn't it be nice if you...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
The problem there is....  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
Yes it is cutting into sales  fwarren | 11/12/08
Those numbers are pretty grim.  kozmcrae | 11/12/08
ROFL ROFL ROFL!  de-void | 11/14/08
Yahoo! is now trading at $10 ...  Ole Man | 11/15/08
Netbook growth  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 11/12/08
Mary Jo, you ask a good question. Will MS lower price to protect market  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
What huge discounts, Donnieboy?  GuidingLight | 11/12/08
I would imagine it is int the 25 dollar range instead of the 100 dollar  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Also, read the link below about the discounts and the restrictions.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Another point is...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
It does not work that way  fwarren | 11/12/08
Where do you get 2014 from?  Sleeper Service | 11/13/08
Gotcha. Thanks Mary Jo!  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
I don't think I'll ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
I was a  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
No  de-void | 11/14/08
Not just Linux driving prices down  solomonrex | 11/12/08
Squeezed out?  DotNetWill | 11/12/08
Denial, anger, desperation, then what?  Ole Man | 11/12/08
@Ole Man  de-void | 11/14/08
Meaningful dialogue is useless  Ole Man | 11/15/08
So far, just a prettier face  linuser | 11/12/08
Randall Kennedy LOL!  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
"just a prettier face"  Ole Man | 11/12/08
It is not just the higher resource usage, it is also the need for  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Linux UX  de-void | 11/14/08
Mary Jo: Microsoft IS giving huge discounts to get XP on Netbooks.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
discounts?  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 11/12/08
Mary Jo, these deals for XP are only for the Netbook category. If MS has in  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Please share your source...  logicearth@... | 11/12/08
Do you know how to use Google?? Try a simple search like  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
The facts are ....  ShadeTree | 11/12/08
In any case, MS is offering special deals for netbooks that are not  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Speculation?  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Mary Jo, could you please ask MS about current policies? Here is a ZdNet  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Open message to Microsoft  n0neXn0ne | 11/12/08
So far  gypkap@... | 11/12/08
RE: So far ... What is, is ...  n0neXn0ne | 11/12/08
How does Windows 7 run on netbooks...  storm14k | 11/12/08
Have you considered...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
Think about this then....  storm14k | 11/13/08
I'm sorry but what the hell are you on about?  Sleeper Service | 11/13/08
Its not a task at all....  storm14k | 11/13/08
Are you sure that you know about?  Ole Man | 11/13/08
Except Vista does not hog resources because it gives them back (NT)  logicearth@... | 11/13/08
Why does Vista suck up resources unnecessarily to begin with?  Ole Man | 11/15/08
A leopard never changes his spots  Ole Man | 11/12/08
Just as Windows XP was more ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Thats contrary to fanboy rhetoric.  storm14k | 11/13/08
Ermmm ... nope!  de-void | 11/14/08
Nice soliloquy  Ole Man | 11/15/08
Every new OS release ...  mwagner@... | 11/18/08
Yup, just like every new automobile  Ole Man | 11/18/08
If you bothered reading...  Wolfie2K3 | 11/12/08
So in other words....  storm14k | 11/13/08
No!  de-void | 11/14/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  micpet | 11/12/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  ramnet@... | 11/12/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
You are very naive to think that we need all of that for netbooks.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
The point is that ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
But, you assume that all advances will go into faster hardware, not cheaper  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
It's true that price-points will ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
I think you underestimate the power of competition. Of course MS does not  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Uh?  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Perhaps today but the iPhone and ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Wrong again ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
You are correct but ...  mwagner@... | 11/18/08
Everything has a but........  Ole Man | 11/18/08
You assume everyone wants Linux.  GuidingLight | 11/12/08
Everyone wants value, and if you do not need to run legacy applications,  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
But everyone's view of "value" ...  mwagner@... | 11/12/08
Gullibility has no prevention  Ole Man | 11/13/08
Woosh  fwarren | 11/12/08
I run Vista on a Dell Mini 9...  Narg | 11/12/08
If it could, it would we.  TripleII | 11/12/08
4x higher return rate for Linux NetBooks  Mr. Dee | 11/12/08
The higer return rate for Linux was a particular vendor, and probably did  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
ASUS pioneered the market and eeePC dominates it  Mr. Dee | 11/12/08
No, it was NOT ASUS, read the link in the body where the CEO says the  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
MSI are a 'small' company?  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
MSI is small? lol  coffeeshark | 11/12/08
Old news, debunked thoroughly  TripleII | 11/12/08
I love the YouTube clip  Ole Man | 11/12/08
It is all of these virtual machines that even HP wants to know.  rtirman37@... | 11/12/08
In any case, MS is offering special deals for netbooks that are not  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Not me  mietz | 11/12/08
Keep it up Microsuck  guiri | 11/12/08
Linux is not  GuidingLight | 11/12/08
RE: Not ... Linux  n0neXn0ne | 11/12/08
This is like asking Microsoft  Ole Man | 11/15/08
Should we not also assume...  itpro_z | 11/12/08
But, do not look for all advances to go into faster processors and more  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
"The most popular"?  itpro_z | 11/12/08
If you can break the 200 dollar barrier, people will buy these in large  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Becasue it is not stripped down  fwarren | 11/12/08
Response  itpro_z | 11/12/08
A couple of corrections.  TripleII | 11/12/08
Hey TripleII  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
Or...  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
Not much new to add, lol.  TripleII | 11/12/08
TripleII. I stopped after the first one......  xuniL_z | 11/12/08
You missed the point.  TripleII | 11/12/08
He really isn't interested in your points.  no_zd_user_name | 11/12/08
Yes  Ole Man | 11/12/08
Well thank you Dietrch.  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
You don't need VMware ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Not for Windows programs.  TripleII | 11/12/08
@TripleII - You could run it remotely ....  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
EVerything else aside.....  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
Reply below. Called Future of Netbooks. (nt)  TripleII | 11/13/08
100% correct on the versatility ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
I think the sweet spot for sceen size will be 10 or 11 inches.  DonnieBoy | 11/12/08
Still Trying  ccrasher | 11/14/08
Go to school  Ole Man | 11/15/08
NT  Dave-8128 | 11/12/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  DonBurnett | 11/12/08
Good post till the end.  TripleII | 11/12/08
The most popular message here from Winguys.....Do not bash as I do.......  Ole Man | 11/13/08
I guess it depends on how much you rely on Amazon reviews.....  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  DonBurnett | 11/12/08
No that's for the MSI Wind ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Mainly because the headline should be...  Sleeper Service | 11/12/08
Good thing you don't run a corporation ...  MisterMiester | 11/12/08
Could be too much association  Ole Man | 11/13/08
Well no...  Sleeper Service | 11/13/08
'Netbook' definition? Maybe for a Windows user...  lefty.crupps | 11/12/08
Touch based pc monitor?  jshewsbury@... | 11/12/08
Netbooks....LOL! FIRST RUN ON A DT THEN THINK ABOUT NETBOOKS  ardnivar | 11/13/08
Obviously you've just came out of your basement. Win7 already runs on it.  transposeIT | 11/13/08
Neither fact nor speculation  jolumoar | 11/13/08
More powerful netbooks  Spats30 | 11/13/08
"As long as M$ doesn't limit the license"  Ole Man | 11/13/08
They better lower the price  jpr75_z | 11/13/08
Future of Netbooks.  TripleII | 11/13/08
Literally  Bob C User | 11/13/08
Yes, too many.  TripleII | 11/13/08
This is all total speculation TripleII.  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
You may be right on desktops.  TripleII | 11/13/08
I won't be using Vista or Win7 and I'm a Fan...  dunn@... | 11/13/08
What do you really want?  xuniL_z | 11/13/08
MS DOES care  de-void | 11/14/08
What Microsoft cares deeply about  Ole Man | 11/15/08
RE: Windows 7 and notebooks: Separating fact from speculation  CharlesEtheridge@... | 11/13/08
A One-Year License for Netbooks  3dguru | 11/13/08
RE: VISTA Will Not Happen Again!  ccrasher | 11/14/08
that is what all Microsoft customers hope and pray  Ole Man | 11/15/08
Windows & Office  rtb | 11/15/08
Netbooks - bad for hardware industry, good for Microsoft  Sameer Dubey | 11/17/08
RE: Windows 7 and netbooks: Separating fact from speculation  DonBurnett | 12/09/08

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