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February 9th, 2009

Mozilla chief backs Opera's browser-bundling complaint against Microsoft

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 7:26 am

Categories: Corporate strategy, Internet Explorer, Legal

Tags: Opera Software, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Microsoft Corp., Web Browser, Mozilla Corp., EC, Microsoft Windows, Web Browsers, Operating Systems, Software

Unsurprisingly, the head of the Mozilla Foundation is backing Opera Software’s browser-bundling complaint against Microsoft.

Mitchell Baker, Chief Executive of the foundation, has gone on record saying she concurs with the European Commission’s preliminary conclusion that  “Microsoft’s tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice.” (The “preliminary conclusion,” which is roughly equivalent to a preliminary finding, is the result of an antitrust complaint Opera lodged against Microsoft in December 2007. The EC issued the finding in mid-January 2009.)

I agree with Baker that Microsoft’s tying of IE to Windows hurt competition. Although Microsoft argued more than ten years ago in its antitrust case here in the U.S. versus the Department of Justice that IE was part of Windows, I — and many other observers — never felt Microsoft proved its case. However, Microsoft was not forced by the U.S. court to unbundle IE and, since that time, has been allowed to continue to ship IE with every copy of Windows.

Allowing Microsoft to make IE the default browser in Windows the courts has put a damper on Microsoft’s competitors. The real question now is what could and should be done — at this late date — to fix this fact.

Mitchell blogged on February 6 that “(t)here are separate questions of whether there is a good remedy, and what that remedy might be.” In her post, she never suggested that remedy should be (though did offer her counsel to the EC, if they want/need it).

The remedy is what’s key here — not “proof” that Microsoft’s behavior hurt its competitors. What kind of action would provide more customer choice?

Opera officials have said they are in favor of the EC requiring Microsoft to either push other browser to users via Microsoft’s own patch/updating mechanisms, like Windows Update; and/or requiring Microsoft to distribute other vendors’ browsers with Windows. (So far, happily no one has suggested Microsoft be required to remove IE from Windows and sell a completely browser-free version in the EC. That strategy, required by the EC in the case of Media Player, resulted in a version of Windows that consumers don’t want and aren’t buying.)

Few company observers seem to think even the Microsoft-bashing EC would go so far as to require Microsoft to use its own update mechanism to distribute its competitors’ products. But making Microsoft put the  Firefox, Opera and Chrome bits on the Windows DVD? That seems like something the EC just might do.

The next question becomes: If the EC requires Microsoft to offer users a choice of browsers will this delay delivery of Windows 7 in the EU? Will Microsoft argue that it will have to “un-integrate” IE from the rest of Windows before it can proceed?

What do you think is going to happen next in the EC browser-bundling case? Do you feel forcing Microsoft to distribute its competitors’ browsers alongside IE would help consumers — and not just Microsoft’s competitors?

Update: Hmm…. What do the Firefox crew want?  Firefox architect Mike Connor is quoted saying he’s dead-set against Firefox being bundled with Windows and that Opera’s browser-bundling argument that is the crux of its EC complaint is misguided.

Mary Jo FoleyMary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. You can also follow Mary Jo on Twitter.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 295 Talkback(s)
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera
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MS should file a counter complaint  croberts | 02/09/09
Two problems with your logic  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
A couple of problems with your logic  NoThomas | 02/09/09
You're talking out of both sides of your mouth  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
If by giving people gift certificates good towards Microsoft products...  olePigeon | 02/11/09
*sigh*  SimonUK | 02/09/09
Re: Broken Pages Coded for IE  notsofast | 02/09/09
Agreed  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
It's not the bundling, it's the integration...  olePigeon | 02/11/09
I keep hearing about MS market dropping rapidly, but monopoly status seems.  xuniL_z | 02/10/09
You are confused on may aspects (market, for example)  B.O.F.H. | 02/10/09
That's BOFH, can't reply w/o an ad homimem attack can he.  xuniL_z | 02/11/09
Biased judge?  masonwheeler | 02/15/09
Command line  pooroldjim25 | 02/09/09
I'm sorry...  LeeC | 02/10/09
Of which are not tied to the core OS  Linux User 147560 | 02/09/09
Stop with the silly icons  croberts | 02/09/09
Silly icons?  rcbarr83@... | 02/09/09
downloading without a browser...  Wolfie2K3 | 02/10/09
Microsoft needs to borrow another idea from Linux...  SpikeyMike | 02/10/09
And how well would that go over?  Wolfie2K3 | 02/10/09
Repository? MS has had one for ages...what do you mean borrow the idea?  xuniL_z | 02/11/09
@Wolfie  SpikeyMike | 02/11/09
Spikey. I don't think MS has control over it? Do you?  xuniL_z | 02/12/09
the EU isn't interested in a levelplaying field  tech_walker | 02/09/09
As a patriotic American  akulkis | 02/10/09
Thank you, sir.  masonwheeler | 02/10/09
And thank someone else...  jordjarn@... | 02/10/09
Make that three......  Ole Man | 02/10/09
Microsoft ENVY doesn't make you people reasonable...nt  transposeIT | 02/10/09
Oh look, another Libertarian strawman.  masonwheeler | 02/11/09
Talk about fake Americans...  transposeIT | 02/10/09
Then you neither understand RICO, nor your country  de-void | 02/12/09
Yes, and people still have a choice  Ole Man | 02/12/09
Reason for IE integration has no technical merit  SpikeyMike | 02/10/09
Re: MS should file a counter complaint  percykidpester_z | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Bondswa | 02/09/09
simple.  akulkis | 02/10/09
removed  akulkis | 02/10/09
Their concern is...  SpikeyMike | 02/10/09
Safari  danieldickinson | 02/09/09
The difference is that it has been determined  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
The difference?  CodeAnxiety | 02/09/09
pardon me while I regurgitate my breakfast...  zkiwi | 02/09/09
It precludes others from making money  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Making money?  rramirez@... | 02/09/09
Well, at least you have fooled one person.  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Don't blame MS for Opera going free  markbn | 02/09/09
I agree  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Not really about the browsers.  enduser_z | 02/09/09
Very good post...  eMJayy | 02/09/09
Precisely.  akulkis | 02/10/09
Fewer than you think....  rdiekema@... | 02/10/09
By which measure, Apple IS a monopoly  de-void | 02/09/09
Apple....  rdiekema@... | 02/10/09
You don't know what a monpoly is.  Metronome49 | 02/10/09
Apple monopolize the OSX platform  de-void | 02/10/09
What matters is...  zkiwi | 02/11/09
Google and Apple are FAR worse than MS  de-void | 02/12/09
Don't bother with him De-void.  xuniL_z | 02/12/09
No! You missed the point!  patbot | 02/09/09
Unfortunately,  eMJayy | 02/09/09
Then other browser vendors should market themselves better  de-void | 02/09/09
LOL  eMJayy | 02/10/09
AntiTrust aside, this is about user choice?  danieldickinson | 02/10/09
@eMJayy: We're in FULL agreement here  de-void | 02/10/09
@de-void:  eMJayy | 02/10/09
Come on now....  MGP2 | 02/09/09
The difference...  eMJayy | 02/10/09
The difference  Fred Fredrickson | 02/09/09
Windows update in Vista is not in IE  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Now that is so untrue.  sjbinaz | 02/10/09
Opera is desperate...  CodeAnxiety | 02/09/09
I agree  NStalnecker | 02/09/09
Only losers complain about losing  wayne62682 | 02/09/09
You forgot to add.  kozmcrae | 02/09/09
One more thing...  MGP2 | 02/09/09
Wow!  kozmcrae | 02/09/09
What choice?  akulkis | 02/10/09
Is your claim  rtk | 02/10/09
Is your claim  Ole Man | 02/12/09
No  rtk | 02/12/09
Yep, no matter how bad we are  Ole Man | 02/15/09
How bad who are?  rtk | 02/15/09
What do you find wrong...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Its the Redmond KoolAide  Ole Man | 02/11/09
Not again?  Heatlesssun1 | 02/09/09
How true.  Cayble | 02/09/09
How come people STILL don't get it?  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/09/09
Pointercount  MGP2 | 02/09/09
If you were actually...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Strange  rtk | 02/11/09
There is just nothing like...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Out of context?  rtk | 02/11/09
Yes, I see that side of the coin  Ole Man | 02/11/09
The boo-hoo factor  Cayble | 02/10/09
You flip-flop between...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
All other manufacturer's products  rtk | 02/11/09
The stench of corruption  Ole Man | 02/11/09
The stench of contradiction.....  xuniL_z | 02/13/09
Yes, I respect and admire TripleLL  Ole Man | 02/15/09
Unethical Corporations  Ole Man | 02/11/09
Well orated by...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Unethical people  xuniL_z | 02/13/09
Who would know?  Ole Man | 02/15/09
Tying a search engine to a web browser does the same thing.  GuidingLight | 02/09/09
Exactly  Cayble | 02/09/09
Firefox tied?  RogerDaryl | 02/09/09
Uh  Linux User 147560 | 02/09/09
uh huh  rtk | 02/09/09
Funny. I have a drop down to choose search engines in my copy of Firefox.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/09/09
It's universal  eMJayy | 02/09/09
The important word is "default".  sjbinaz | 02/10/09
Reading comprehension skills  eMJayy | 02/10/09
A little smug there.  sjbinaz | 02/10/09
Ok, I'll admit to a mistake  eMJayy | 02/10/09
IE does this too - and makes it MUCH easier than FF to add your own!  de-void | 02/10/09
Yeah, that's right  eMJayy | 02/10/09
Tying a browser to a Web Service discriminatory.  kozmcrae | 02/09/09
Is that for sale?  MGP2 | 02/09/09
Sounds like some good stuff.  kozmcrae | 02/09/09
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!  kyn_67@... | 02/10/09
no obligation to use IE  cwallen19803@... | 02/10/09
Why then, do the banks require IE?  kozmcrae | 02/11/09
Come now, Koz...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
It's like Ford not shipping tires with the Explorer  jgwinner | 02/09/09
I can't think of one situation  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Bad analogy  eMJayy | 02/09/09
B.S.  windozefreak | 02/09/09
MS should stick to making Windows better  eMJayy | 02/10/09
They stuck to making Windows relevant  SpikeyMike | 02/10/09
New Millennium, and I don't mean Windows  kyn_67@... | 02/10/09
Users use what they feel comfortable with.  kozmcrae | 02/11/09
Koz...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
So what you're saying here...  Wolfie2K3 | 02/10/09
What I'm saying  eMJayy | 02/10/09
Careful there, you're getting close to logic  Ole Man | 02/11/09
More like shipping with no gas  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Jeff_Toronto | 02/09/09
Never better said  Alber1690 | 02/09/09
You said: Anyone with a little bigger brain than every member of the EU..."  patbot | 02/09/09
The common denominator of intelligence dictates  Ole Man | 02/09/09
For proof of this phenomenon  rtk | 02/09/09
Is that a personal attack?  Ole Man | 02/09/09
Nope, for two reasons.  rtk | 02/09/09
If the shoes fit...  MGP2 | 02/09/09
Thank you for that roundup of my posts  Ole Man | 02/10/09
EU or EC  Jeff_Toronto | 02/09/09
The real answer; spin off non OS divisions of MS.  enduser_z | 02/09/09
MS hatred driving people bonkers  kvkalidindi | 02/09/09
Then what is your excuse?  enduser_z | 02/09/09
What is good for the goose ...  kvkalidindi | 02/09/09
No comparison.  enduser_z | 02/09/09
Go ask any music exec what they think of Apple  de-void | 02/10/09
Music execs complaining? Say it isnt so!  enduser_z | 02/11/09
OK then...  MGP2 | 02/09/09
Product synergies described and explained  dfolk2 | 02/09/09
Yes - this is the answer.  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/09/09
And for those who don't recall  akulkis | 02/10/09
It is the same big mistake all over again  drorharari | 02/09/09
What Mary fails to tell you ...  MisterMiester | 02/09/09
firefox confusion  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 02/09/09
Perhaps Firefox doesn't want to be associated?  Ole Man | 02/09/09
If anything in the PC realm is a cancer,...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
You do know that  rtk | 02/11/09
Fear not, oh troubled one  Ole Man | 02/12/09
They want the other clown  windozefreak | 02/09/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Loverock Davidson | 02/09/09
I would not care if IE did not suck so bad...  dougit | 02/09/09
This is my beef too...  glassangel | 02/09/09
That's funny...  Metronome49 | 02/10/09
And why do you use this IE that sucks so bad?  windozefreak | 02/09/09
I think that was explained?  Metronome49 | 02/10/09
Oh boo hoo...  LeeC | 02/10/09
CMS System  SpikeyMike | 02/10/09
No browser in windows how do we get one then?  Randalllind | 02/09/09
Don't worry, that prospect isn't in the cards  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Do you only...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
so four retail versions of Win7  rtk | 02/11/09
I think people misunderstand what 'the browser' in Windows means.  TheWerewolf | 02/09/09
To make a long story short, in laymen's words  Ole Man | 02/09/09
except, of course  rtk | 02/09/09
No - that would be idiotic  de-void | 02/10/09
Too much tea, I see  Ole Man | 02/12/09
I'd wager Opera would be quite satisfied  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
Sure they would...  NicoToscani | 02/09/09
I'm not disagreeing with that  Michael Kelly | 02/09/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  pooroldjim25 | 02/09/09
What is good for the goose ...  kvkalidindi | 02/09/09
You continue to ignore the fact...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
what next, legislated craplets?  odenni | 02/09/09
LOL!! Thanks for the trip down history lane!  No More Microsoft Software Ever! | 02/09/09
Haven't always been loaded with crapware.  rtk | 02/09/09
EU stupidity  kurmat | 02/09/09
Mozilla: Just deal with it.  flatliner | 02/09/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  tonyman262 | 02/09/09
TonyMan262  Isocrates | 02/11/09
It's MICROSOFT'S OS!! Not yours Mozilla  RyGuy12 | 02/09/09
Wrong!  eMJayy | 02/09/09
bogus  tech_walker | 02/09/09
Yet another bad analogy  eMJayy | 02/09/09
What world do you live in?  Isocrates | 02/11/09
So on that basis...  LeeC | 02/10/09
Interesting reasoning.  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Beautiful analogy, eMJayy!  Isocrates | 02/11/09
I second that emotion! nt  Ole Man | 02/12/09
And It's MY COMPUTER  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
Nicely stated.  Isocrates | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  grandan@... | 02/09/09
Stop Already!!!!  mikies123 | 02/09/09
I'm surprised Mozilla is acting like a bunch of loosers  tech_walker | 02/09/09
You said it....  Nsaf | 02/09/09
Opera is a joke they should give it up and get jobs that matter  tech_walker | 02/09/09
Why give up...  eMJayy | 02/09/09
Browserpad?  Earthling2 | 02/09/09
But unlike some posters,  eMJayy | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  markrendle | 02/10/09
Hope this is not too much of a shock to you...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
Does anyone NOT see what's really going on here?  Wolfie2K3 | 02/10/09
My day just got better!  kyn_67@... | 02/10/09
Tired, old argument  nordyj2001@... | 02/10/09
Why shouldn't the OS come with a full-teatured web browser  cestrauss | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  topcat_arg@... | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera (nonsense)  tonyv414 | 02/10/09
Socialism is only OK when Big O does it ...  lalogos | 02/10/09
The website you are looking for is foxnews.com  edomejn | 02/10/09
Someone's bitter  tikigawd | 02/10/09
May be the wrong place  Ole Man | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  sysop-dr | 02/10/09
OK Now What?  kyn_67@... | 02/10/09
Complete nonsense.  Marty R. Milette | 02/10/09
You're still missing the point  rdiekema@... | 02/10/09
hampered?????  GAXXIS | 02/10/09
So we should go back to DOS?  topcat_arg@... | 02/11/09
Why should they?  Marty R. Milette | 02/11/09
Windows is less because of IE  donden@... | 02/10/09
Hmm  rdiekema@... | 02/10/09
Better do some homework...  Marty R. Milette | 02/11/09
I think Microsoft should sue Google  Speednet | 02/10/09
Your logic is flawed  rdiekema@... | 02/10/09
Your logic is fallacious because...  Isocrates | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Oregon_Polar | 02/10/09
Windows-EU  Too Old For IT | 02/10/09
SCO style on MS, nice happy  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  bharatbball@... | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  gt90v12 | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  StellarView | 02/10/09
Hurts Competition? really?  sethchicago@... | 02/10/09
You're So Right! Duh!  Mr_Wizard | 02/10/09
I want one without a radio  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
free software  sethchicago@... | 02/10/09
The radio is made in China  Alan Smithie | 02/10/09
There is a huge fly in your ointment  Ole Man | 02/12/09
Where's the fly?  rtk | 02/12/09
You just swallowed it  Ole Man | 02/15/09
ya pop a synapse? (nt)  rtk | 02/15/09
Stupid logic...  Nsaf | 02/10/09
MS radio  GAXXIS | 02/11/09
That is exactly what I (and many others) do  Ole Man | 02/12/09
Microsoft is the wrong target.  kyron.gustafson@... | 02/10/09
Master Joe Says...  MasterJoe | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Johnny Brandie | 02/10/09
Antitrust solution: keep it simple  Art_Ilano | 02/10/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  LeeC | 02/10/09
Balderdash!  devils_advocate | 02/10/09
The MS success formula = Proprietize Everything  eMJayy | 02/10/09
Linux  cwallen19803@... | 02/10/09
LOL  eMJayy | 02/10/09
More LOL  Ole Man | 02/12/09
Even more LOL  rtk | 02/12/09
Your search capabilities  Ole Man | 02/15/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Kirinis | 02/10/09
Try running Windoze Update  ohiomike | 02/10/09
Yup, and Apple ships a single button mouse  rtk | 02/10/09
Thank you for pointing out the wonderful qualities  Ole Man | 02/15/09
Twice now  rtk | 02/15/09
If following a thread were my biggest problem  Ole Man | 02/16/09
There's a large difference  rtk | 02/16/09
I see.........  Ole Man | 02/17/09
reread the thread  rtk | 02/17/09
Once is enough for me  Ole Man | 02/17/09
No, but nice try.  rtk | 02/17/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  craig_carboni | 02/10/09
IE acts as part of OS  viejogaucho | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  vinnyboombatz | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  percykidpester_z | 02/11/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  NCWeber | 02/18/09
Embedded Browser Controls  isemmel@... | 02/18/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Paragon19 | 02/19/09
Here's a good question:  Paragon19 | 02/19/09
Exactly!  obriens_tavern@... | 02/19/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  pillbox1234567 | 02/19/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  joesodium | 02/20/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  Jackie150 | 10/03/09
RE: Mozilla chief backs Opera  lingerie wholesale | 10/13/09

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