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October 8th, 2009

Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 4:55 am

Categories: Channel, Corporate strategy, OEMs, Resellers, System builders, Vista, Windows 7, Windows client

Tags: Mary Jo Foley

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has done his best over the past year-plus to try to dampen expectations around Windows 7. He’s doing it again this week during his pre-launch European tour, telling press, analysts and others there that he doesn’t expect Windows 7 to provide a sudden and miraculous boost to the PC market.

But I’m more intrigued by a related comment Ballmer made, as I’ve thought about this very scenario  myself in recent months. Ballmer pointed to Vista as an example that tester feedback may not always be the best measure of the success of a new operating system release. From an October 7 Bloomberg story:

“’The test feedback (on Windows 7) has been good, but the test feedback on Vista was good,’ Ballmer, 53, said in an interview last week. ‘I am optimistic, but the proof will be in the pudding.’”

It feels like a long time ago when testers were assessing the many Longhorn/Vista builds that Microsoft issued both before and after the “reset” in 2004. Before the reset, Microsoft officials heard from testers that there were some deep-seated problems with its next planned version of Windows. As a result, the Windows team went back to the drawing board and rejiggered it. Then there were lots more builds. And finally, in the fall of 2006, Microsoft released Vista to manufacturing.

I’ve been trying to recall if there were any early warning signs about the problems Vista had when it first came out. Were there any major outcries from the hundreds of thousands of public and private testers about Vista/Longhorn being bloated; slow to power on and shut down; and including such an onerous number of security prompts that many users would just shut off UAC?

The Softies, the company’s PC partners and software vendors all knew that Vista was such a moving target (both feature-wise and date-wise) that it was dangerous and crazy to count on any particular build being final before Microsoft actually RTM’d it. So there were some signs that apps and drivers would likely lag the product substantially.

But was there any widespread tester pushback advising Microsoft not to release Vista/Longhorn because it was not ready? I remember hearing/reading some testers saying this, but not enough to create high-level, widespread panic. (There was considerable panic after RTM, but not before.)

As a result, I’m left wondering about Vista, as many are/were about the current financial crisis: Why didn’t anyone inform us sooner of the impending meltdown? Weren’t there warning signs? Where was everybody?

A lot has changed between the time Microsoft developed/tested/released Vista and when it did the same with Windows 7. The organizational structure and development processes of the Windows unit was overhauled. Testers got fewer, but more predictable builds with relatively few changes. PC makers and software vendors were brought into the testing process far earlier.

Ballmer is right: The early tester feedback on 7 has been good. Those who already have Windows 7 installed seem generally happy.

Is Ballmer simply trying to keep company watchers’ predictions about Windows 7’s success from spinning out of control? Or is there even the most remote chance that Windows 7 might not be as good as the early reviews and feedback have indicated? I’m leaning toward the “Ballmer’s just trying to manage expectations” explanation, but I’m curious what you think.

Mary Jo FoleyMary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. You can also follow Mary Jo on Twitter.

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  • Most Recent of 235 Talkback(s)
Vista coudn't even copy files! You call it an operating system?
When Vista came out, I had a large number of students in my office declaring in their frustration that they were going to switch to Macintosh. These poor souls had used Vista, whether on their own com... (Read the rest)
Posted by: dellisbrown Posted on: 11/14/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
Your average beta tester is a power user  NetArch. | 10/08/09
I agree  kyn_67@... | 10/08/09
good one  savage3006 | 10/08/09
ditto  mathcreative | 10/08/09
Linux  keetrainchild | 10/08/09
ZDNet = Professional Trolls  Duke E. Love | 10/08/09
Then don't read their blogs or news feeds dummy. NT  tbensen@... | 10/09/09
Its all going to come down to marketing.  storm14k | 10/08/09
The average user  misceng | 10/08/09
No, that's not true  wolf_z | 10/08/09
I think you kiiiiinda prove the point...  storm14k | 10/08/09
Huh???  kracor@... | 10/25/09
History repeated  Misdirector | 11/03/09
XP software issues. Same now in Win 7  SparkyMaddy | 10/08/09
Dude get some help with this  DonBurnett | 10/08/09
"Dude" That was the other Dude Point...  rciafardone@... | 10/09/09
@rciafardone, once of the best posts I've read here yet!  Wintel BSOD | 10/09/09
rciafardone DOS was dead since XP  keoz | 10/09/09
Yeo "Dude" you might want to think about this.  jjmcdonald7911@... | 10/10/09
You may have missed the point...  DataFerret | 10/08/09
 aktazdevil | 10/08/09
What about dual boot XP and Windows 7?  pfyearwood | 10/08/09
Install in Compatibily Mode not XP-mode  ptelenko@... | 10/09/09
MS-DOS/Netware  janeadct@... | 10/08/09
What You Actually Find  Alfie AF | 10/09/09
I think that kinda depends...  jeremychappell | 10/08/09
re: Its all going to come down to marketing.  Mihi Nomen Est | 10/08/09
"Average user ..."  brian ansorge | 10/08/09
you may be partialy right...  windozefreak | 10/08/09
You may be wrong  Hate Malware | 10/09/09
Beta Testers only received copies, not those who just used the Beta  Patanjali | 10/12/09
That statistic could be misleading ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
I'm Probably Avg User  LegendsOfBatman | 10/08/09
But it's more than this...  jeremychappell | 10/08/09
Average user testing is not that important on beta  keoz | 10/09/09
I was a tester  c_monks@... | 10/12/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  mikeaspatrick | 10/08/09
Vista=ME2  Eric -W | 10/08/09
Testers  jlawrenc1 | 10/09/09
Windows7: XP on glam  sparkle farkle | 10/08/09
Not being able to select...  bjbrock | 10/08/09
I have to disagree.  JM1981 | 10/08/09
"Just because it is a new UI doesn't make it better."  brian ansorge | 10/08/09
It also doesn't make it worse  LiquidLearner | 10/08/09
With regards to search.  Bozzer | 10/09/09
Umm Yes.. Actually  condelirios | 10/09/09
Who said Win7 did away with lists?  Patanjali | 10/12/09
What have you been smoking?  wolf_z | 10/08/09
LMAO  kyn_67@... | 10/08/09
What?  mathcreative | 10/08/09
I was agreeing  kyn_67@... | 10/09/09
Control Panel Classic Mode still exists.  JM1981 | 10/08/09
You have not been using 7 that much  keoz | 10/09/09
Well said!  Agnostic_OS | 10/10/09
It depends totally on the viewpoint of the user  TonyOz | 10/08/09
Hmmm....  James T. Kirk | 10/08/09
A fair comment........which you don't like, apparently.  TonyOz | 10/08/09
Windows User != Windows Fan(atic) or Gates Prophet  trx_1 | 10/08/09
Now that's pretty good pragmatism....nice.  TonyOz | 10/08/09
Windows User!  fjm | 10/08/09
Heh  jeremychappell | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  RickyF | 10/08/09
Why Balmer will never hear the Truth  fumerop@... | 10/25/09
The problem comes down to two words  Adrian Kingsley-HughesZDNet Moderator | 10/08/09
Good to know because...  chrome_slinky@... | 10/08/09
Undocumented Feature  Bill4 | 10/08/09
Undocumented Feature  Agnostic_OS | 10/11/09
My thoughts exactly.  ye | 10/08/09
A company that ignores feedback can't blame a lack of it...  LeoD | 10/08/09
For Microsoft, Ignorance is Bliss  Win7Nightmares | 10/08/09
Vista operating system  norman1302@... | 10/08/09
Vista is a lot better than XP  stano360 | 10/08/09
MEh  nucrash | 10/08/09
Really?  Hate Malware | 10/09/09
Yep...that's what we got too...  lawryll@... | 10/08/09
Get over it already. Time to move on.  ye | 10/08/09
Holding feet to the fire....  storm14k | 10/08/09
Perhaps you missed the part where I wrote:  ye | 10/08/09
One should always be able....  bjbrock | 10/08/09
You got what you paid for.  ye | 10/08/09
Vote with your feet and change supplier  deaf_e_kate | 10/08/09
Don't forget the other two words  jreuter | 10/08/09
Maybe, maybe not, Adrian ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
RE: The problem comes down to two words  shinji257 | 10/08/09
lowered and slowered  RDrr | 10/08/09
By Design...  DevStar | 10/08/09
Isn't this a bit disingenuous?  chrome_slinky@... | 10/08/09
Harmless hobbiest here, but...  Bill4 | 10/08/09
Hope so because  chrome_slinky@... | 10/08/09
Beta code is always slower because ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
Yes, I know, though not a programmer by profession  chrome_slinky@... | 10/09/09
The 'dirty little secret' is that Windows 7 ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
No, I think  chrome_slinky@... | 10/09/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  bratz_81 | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  Bodazapha | 10/08/09
Has this happened with Windows 7?  Saurondor. | 10/08/09
Sure. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault, Ballmer.  CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 | 10/08/09
You should learn to read.  jdbukis@... | 10/08/09
You should learn to read.  CounterEthicsCommissioner-23034636492738337469105860790963 | 10/08/09
You should learn to read and quote  Hate Malware | 10/09/09
I've Been Using Windows 7 Since January  itanalyst2@... | 10/08/09
Re: I've Been Using Windows 7  bb_apptix | 10/08/09
That's not Windows 7 Fault, but still MS fault  rarsa | 10/08/09
IE 8 and IE 7 mode (ask the site makers to set the IE 7 METATAG  DonBurnett | 10/08/09
I agree  ckl_88 | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  g_keramidas@... | 10/08/09
It is obvious by reading post on ZDNet...  bjbrock | 10/08/09
I think Vista was doomed from the beginning  NoThomas | 10/08/09
Kinda like the Star Trek movies. nt  pfyearwood | 10/08/09
FALSE:Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells  Tom T Tuttle | 10/08/09
feedback  Mary Jo FoleyZDNet Moderator | 10/08/09
I remember specifically hearing...  nucrash | 10/08/09
We did report performance issues...  Timpraetor | 10/08/09
And here is the proof  nucrash | 10/08/09
As someone who tried the public betas, and reported  chrome_slinky@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  Metawatch | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  maxgomes | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  dosnits | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  PhiloEconomics | 10/08/09
OT: Financial meltdown  colinnwn | 10/08/09
It's called hindsight  macgroover | 10/08/09
True...  jk_10 | 10/08/09
I'm sorry, but no.  Looks Confused | 10/08/09
What, What, What ???  colinnwn | 10/08/09
I figured it out!  colinnwn | 10/08/09
As for me...  Looks Confused | 10/08/09
Beta testers TOLD Microsoft that Vista is AWFUL  Mshahsavar | 10/08/09
My wife is as far from a tech or power user as it gets  ilyab | 10/08/09
Mine too  IT_User | 10/08/09
Yeah printer broblem is an issue with manufacturer for the most part  ilyab | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  johnemartin25@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  codehopper | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  steeleblue_cactus | 10/08/09
Being the only Vista user where I work  nucrash | 10/08/09
Elephant in the Room?  Cosmic1 | 10/08/09
Microsoft admit Vista was wrong just to reverse and blame users  Randalllind | 10/08/09
NO SECOND ROUND TESTING  ggossett001 | 10/08/09
Group of 3 testers  Cosmic1 | 10/08/09
RE: Power users and MICROSOFT MISTAKES  mikermiker | 10/08/09
Here were a few WARNINGS!!!  nucrash | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  HotPepperMan | 10/08/09
Software testing is a profession.  CPPDEV | 10/08/09
Microsoft caused Vista flap.  Hates Idiots | 10/08/09
No, they rely on free beta testers instead of paying qualified people.  HypnoToad72 | 10/08/09
MS has plenty of paid testers...  sframberger@... | 10/08/09
I can see this happening.  Hates Idiots | 10/09/09
Mixed bag  bmgoodman | 10/08/09
Too few of us remember Windws 2000 and ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
The biggest problem with Vista  danm50 | 10/08/09
Passing the ball?  rarsa | 10/08/09
If they only listened to IT managers and consultants  rcfoulk@... | 10/08/09
If a bell is rang and there is nobody there to hear it...  mrlinux | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  steeleblue_cactus | 10/08/09
Not that hard  rcfoulk@... | 10/08/09
not quite  steeleblue_cactus | 10/09/09
What testers is he talking about?  jreuter | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  Mirciox | 10/08/09
Oh sure Steve  SystemVoid | 10/08/09
Changes are more incremental this time  tony@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring=BS  zato_3@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  oicur12ok | 10/08/09
All the PC Magazines said Vista was great; wonderful!  gparsons | 10/08/09
Actually, the trade-rags were bad-mouthing ...  mwagner@... | 10/08/09
Vista sufferred from unrealistic expectations...  jasonp@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  isrcourt | 10/08/09
Software products ship when management says so  HollywoodDog | 10/08/09
Why....  Narg | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  geary_t2000@... | 10/08/09
Politically Massaged Selective Memory  zenwalker | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  ramblnmn | 10/08/09
10,000,000 people are wrong?  Heatlesssun | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  jester41@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  BraxtonLNG@... | 10/08/09
Sure... blame the Testers!!!  ttwiw | 10/08/09
Microsoft Internal Emails Show Dismay With Vista  Ole Man | 10/08/09
Windows 7 and the acer one netbook  roger andre | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  mikemc3@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  DT Colorado | 10/08/09
MJF -1  johnfenjackson@... | 10/08/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  lutz.huesch@... | 10/08/09
Vista launch vs. 7 launch.  quux | 10/08/09
Spun bells don't ring.  Clockwork Computer | 10/08/09
Third-party lag  npiaseck | 10/08/09
The reason is money, money, money...  mikifinaz1@... | 10/08/09
What testers? Microsoft fired all its testers in 2005.  stephen.charles | 10/08/09
Testers didn't miss anything with Vista  Lerianis10 | 10/08/09
AGREED  DonBurnett | 10/08/09
Um you are blaming Vista on Apple users now?  James Quinn | 10/11/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  BlogWatcher | 10/08/09
If memory serves me...  sykandtyed | 10/08/09
Ignorance ot the top - grotesque assumptions  Altotus | 10/09/09
RE:  Bozzer | 10/09/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  thomasak001 | 10/09/09
Ballmer is a freak in a business suit...  tek_heretik | 10/09/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  jt59 | 10/09/09
Maybe Microsoft should take some responsibility and do their own testing?  HypnoToad72 | 10/09/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  wing.flanagan@... | 10/09/09
those BSOD are not caused by Win7 I'm afraid nt  keoz | 10/09/09
Remember ReadyBoost? Of course they knew Vista had problems.  John238 | 10/09/09
Computer Nerds are the same as Muscle Car Nerds  voltrarian | 10/09/09
For the sake of user experience nt  keoz | 10/09/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  johan.kloosterman@... | 10/09/09
Ballmer Needs to Retire.  DT Colorado | 10/09/09
Fire Ballmer.  reinux | 10/09/09
Who would you trust to replace him?  peter_erskine@... | 10/10/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  dishnetman | 10/09/09
your all cheap  dishnetman | 10/09/09
a new O.S. = new hardware?  Agnostic_OS | 10/11/09
Suggestion: Make a real troubleshooting FAQs website!!  voltrarian | 10/09/09
The Annoyances site may be useful  peter_erskine@... | 10/10/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  lloyd_j@... | 10/10/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  shenoy.roopesh@... | 10/10/09
Testers did ring Vista warning bells; but it could still happen to Win 7  Agnostic_OS | 10/11/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  jbullis | 10/11/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen  AnotherVoice | 10/11/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  MikeDiack | 10/12/09
YES it IS happening again with WIN7....  carlsf@... | 10/12/09
Yes is IS happening....  seamountie | 10/12/09
Try THIS one for Size!  jkratzer3 | 10/13/09
So he doesn't fix it; then what  amasys | 10/13/09
They're dead if they dont get it right  AndyPagin | 10/13/09
lol  rtk | 10/13/09
Not this year  AndyPagin | 10/13/09
Linux uptake isn't slow, it's glacial.  rtk | 10/13/09
No  keoz | 10/14/09
Linux comes with an office suite, out of the box  Ole Man | 10/16/09
Not the office suite users most look for! (nt)  keoz | 10/16/09
Well obviously!  Ole Man | 10/19/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  pchaffeur | 10/13/09
Should've Asked Me...  craigd@... | 10/16/09
Only 1 thing went wrong with Vista:  theoxygenthief | 10/20/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  digital riverrat | 10/23/09
RE: Ballmer: Testers didn't ring Vista warning bells; Could the same happen with Windows 7?  Misdirector | 11/02/09
Whoever approved releasing Vista should go in a different business  clixandru@... | 11/03/09
Vista coudn't even copy files! You call it an operating system?  dellisbrown | 11/14/09

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