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September 4th, 2007

Why Microsoft deserved to lose the OOXML standards vote

Posted by Mary Jo Foley @ 8:32 am

Categories: App Compatibility, Corporate strategy, Linux, Office, Office 2007, Office for Mac

Tags: ISO, Microsoft Corp., Standards, OOXML, Openness, Mary Jo Foley

In Focus » See more posts on: ODF

Microsoft lost its bid to fast track its Office Open XML (OOXML) file-format specification. (It’s next-to-impossible to tell from Microsoft’s press release announcing “Strong Global Support for Open XML as It Enters Final Phase of ISO Standards Process,” but it did lose.)

As readers of this blog know, I believe that the world is big enough for multiple file-format specifications. I don’t think the Open Document Format (ODF) deserves to be the only format sanctioned as an “open standard.” That said, I also believe Microsoft deserved to lose this vote. Why?

1. Lobbying is legal. But certain lobbying tactics are not
. Microsoft officials admitted that one of the company’s employees behaved inappropriately in Sweden, attempting to influence partners to vote for OOXML approval. It’s good Microsoft admitted that this was wrong. But it still makes me wonder whether company officials did the same in other countries and were just not caught. And if anyone thinks Microsoft was the only company engaging in lobbying around this standard battle, you need to stop drinking the IBM Koolaid.

2. Microsoft has a history of changing specs at will and leaving developers in the lurch. It’s true you can teach an old dog new tricks (especially when the U.S. Department of Justice, state attorneys general and your competitors are all watching to make sure the dog is behaving properly). But when a specification is created and maintained by a single company or entity, it’s more prone to being manipulated and abused.

3. Openness is in the eye of the beholder. Microsoft considers OOXML open, yet so far, it hasn’t been able to get its own Mac Office product to interoperate with the new OOXML formats in Office 2007. Microsoft has enlisted a number of its new friends to build OOXML-ODF converters, but it has done so only an attempt to “prove” to standards makers that OOXML isn’t the island that it is.

Microsoft isn’t throwing in the towel: It is predicting it can overcome objections by the time the final tally is taken for ISO standardization. Between now and then, both Microsoft and IBM and other ODF backers will, no doubt, continue to lobby as to why OOXML should/shouldn’t become an ISO standard.

In spite of the rhetoric on both sides, Microsoft wants OOXML to gain ISO standardization so that it won’t lose out on government contracts that require “open,” standards-based products. Microsoft’s competitors don’t want Microsoft to obtain ISO standardization because they see this loss as a chance for them to finally lessen Microsoft’s 90-plus-percent market share in the desktop-productivity suite business.

This battle’s not about interoperability, motherhood and apple pie: It’s about Microsoft wanting to keep its desktop-suite monopoly and its competitors seeking ways to break Redmond’s stranglehold on this part of Microsoft’s business.

What do you think will happen next? Will Microsoft triumph in its OOXML standards quest in the end? Why or why not?

Mary Jo FoleyMary Jo has covered the tech industry for more than 20 years. Don't miss a single post. Subscribe via Email or RSS. You can also follow Mary Jo on Twitter.

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  • Most Recent of 331 Talkback(s)
So...
... you'll respond to attacks on MS with your regular zealotry, but you won't even respond when simple questions are asked about what books you've written to prove your point?

Seriously. No_Ax... your credibility has more holes than a slice of good swiss.... (Read the rest)
Posted by: dracolich_prgrm Posted on: 11/12/07 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
What I think is funny . . .  JLHenry | 09/04/07
They can't use ODF.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Document formats are not rocket science and ODF was designed to support all  DonnieBoy | 09/04/07
Tell you what...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Been there, done that  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
Bull  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Don't blame the tool  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
Different versions of Powerpoint  Gerry_z | 09/05/07
I do it all the time  TripleII | 09/04/07
I've done it, quite successfully  super_J | 09/04/07
Then your presentations are very simplistic.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Ever consider...  jasonp@... | 09/04/07
Or someone is ...  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
Know more about PPT than I?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Really? Care to name them Professor?  odubtaig | 09/04/07
No_Ax_to_Grind authored 2 coloring books about PowerPoint?  B.O.F.H. | 09/04/07
What version of OOo did you try?  PMDubuc | 09/05/07
BOFH  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Xunil, No_Ax makes some broad claims.  B.O.F.H. | 09/09/07
the way I see it  xuniL_z | 09/09/07
You really should have thought that through.  dave.leigh@... | 09/04/07
I was thinking the same thing  fho | 09/05/07
Comparison  chromeronin | 09/05/07
Even better!  marc411 | 10/05/07
You really should have thought that through.  Chipper1963 | 09/05/07
Re: Tell you what...  criderja | 09/05/07
Offer you the same challenge, Axe  EagleTheta | 09/05/07
Who cares about importing OPen Office.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/05/07
I do!  cheesyone | 09/05/07
Nobody  chromeronin | 09/05/07
Nobody #3...  handydan918@... | 09/05/07
I do  ppyo | 09/05/07
I and at least eleven others  NoCalDrummer | 09/06/07
I do  Jambalaya Breath | 09/06/07
why the focus on conversions?  Al S Cook | 09/05/07
Free  chromeronin | 09/05/07
Not virus-compatible?  Resuna | 09/05/07
An Axe to No_Ax  dstam | 09/06/07
ODF rejected Microsoft Office Format compatibility  orcmid | 09/06/07
ODF rejected Microsoft?  NoCalDrummer | 09/06/07
Here's why:  JDThompson | 09/07/07
Exactly why there needs to be two very different  xuniL_z | 09/07/07
Neither does rtf, but they included it . . {nt}  JLHenry | 09/04/07
Nobody else can use OOXML  Resuna | 09/05/07
ODF support  JDThompson | 09/05/07
It is not so funny  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
Standards can be extended  TripleII | 09/04/07
Oops, meant tens of millions not tens of hundreds (NT)  TripleII | 09/04/07
It's not so simple  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
It is easier  TripleII | 09/04/07
Not in the real world  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
Proprietary Hidden Standard Extentions  TripleII | 09/04/07
The issue isn't proprietary extensions  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
Hey Mr. Revisionist  zkiwi | 09/04/07
P. Douglas check this out as well.  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
Excuse me?  cheesyone | 09/05/07
What hard how?  jklowden2 | 09/06/07
Standards Can Be Extended  wjkahlssmd@... | 09/06/07
Reading comprehension strikes again  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
No it doesn't  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
Please note direction  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
Here are examples  P. Douglas | 09/04/07
Funny . . .  JLHenry | 09/04/07
Paoli and Robertson talk nonsense  putt1ck | 09/05/07
That's not the point, nimrod . . .  JLHenry | 09/04/07
MS does not  alaniane@... | 09/06/07
But ODF won't save everything I want to do  DannyO_0x98 | 09/04/07
Re: It is not so funny  criderja | 09/05/07
Does it really hurt?  yyuko@... | 09/04/07
Respectifully Disagree  TripleII | 09/04/07
I think you missed one key statement...  MGP2 | 09/04/07
Yes, government purchase decisions...  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
Facts no in evidence  TripleII | 09/04/07
Political processes.  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
Erm...  zkiwi | 09/04/07
Veto authority.  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
So...  zkiwi | 09/04/07
Changing the standard...  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
Happy developers?  zkiwi | 09/04/07
No, technical.  odubtaig | 09/04/07
Yes, features need the formats.  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
Definition of an ISO Open Standard.  odubtaig | 09/04/07
When the vote is close...  Anton Philidor | 09/04/07
That doesn't make the objections political.  odubtaig | 09/04/07
Definitely technical, ask BSI  putt1ck | 09/05/07
"Governments, though, do not issue purchase guidelines by motives"  Ole Man | 09/04/07
My original position still stands . . .  JLHenry | 09/04/07
Doesn't work that way.  Anton Philidor | 09/05/07
It doesn't . . .  JLHenry | 09/05/07
Motives  Anton Philidor | 09/05/07
Funny, I see it as . . .  JLHenry | 09/06/07
Sad, really considering...  cheesyone | 09/05/07
I run Linux, and Open Office feels clunky  djchandler | 09/07/07
I run Linux, and Open Office feels clunky  djchandler | 09/07/07
Nothing wrong with a real standard  TripleII | 09/04/07
OOXML is Microsoft proprietary junk.  whisperycat | 09/04/07
Excellent reference!  PMDubuc | 09/05/07
Beautiful!!  cheesyone | 09/05/07
Doesn't get any better.  joe.smetona@... | 09/06/07
I will tell you i Microsof tdid not deserve to loose  kalodev@... | 09/04/07
I call FUD, complete revisionist (shill position)  TripleII | 09/04/07
"OO is doing fine... 7% of the corporate market."  blu_vg@... | 09/04/07
I put my money where my mouth is, do you  TripleII | 09/04/07
linking to an openoffice.org site as proof???  blu_vg@... | 09/04/07
A more intelligent rebuttal this time  TripleII | 09/04/07
Surveys... ***from The Register***  blu_vg@... | 09/04/07
Rise of a profession greater than lawyer; Rise of the American Programmer  mighetto | 09/04/07
Are you for real?  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
For Real and CopyRight; US coders own the code they write - Suprised?  mighetto | 09/04/07
so triplell  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
He can't put his money where his mouth is....  Ole Man | 09/04/07
One thing...  zkiwi | 09/04/07
Amusing?  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
zkiwi....  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
well, all i can figure  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Spot on Post!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Yup. But why shouldn't they? Somebody needs to.  shawkins | 09/04/07
Given what MS is doing...  EagleTheta | 09/05/07
Author is so So SO Correct: The Mac version of Office 2007 delay is telling  mighetto | 09/04/07
Sigh...  SpikeyMike | 09/04/07
The only way to ever compete against Microsoft...  jasonp@... | 09/04/07
Not just answering questions.  Anton Philidor | 09/05/07
Ageed...  jasonp@... | 09/05/07
Analogy alert!  Resuna | 09/05/07
Lets be honest  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Let's be honest?  Cardinal_Bill | 09/04/07
And if it is a standard then  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Elighten Us  TripleII | 09/04/07
Greed works  Mikael_z | 09/05/07
Yes, the profit motive works.  Anton Philidor | 09/05/07
"at present the software (Microsoft's) is accepted"  Ole Man | 09/05/07
OOxml seed to stay away from open sourse  koolarry@... | 09/05/07
That would not be a bad thing  TripleII | 09/04/07
Wrong on every count.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Sigh  TripleII | 09/04/07
Yes, it does apply here.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Way off topic  TripleII | 09/04/07
You raised the topic.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
That's not exactly how I remember it.  notsofast | 09/05/07
SharePoint is Corel Office  mighetto | 09/04/07
Yes, but has nothing to do with the format.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Dogs and gods and cats  mighetto | 09/04/07
It doesn't?  PMDubuc | 09/05/07
"as long as its not anything from MS"  jacarter3 | 09/04/07
Then start here at SourceForge  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Sorry Bitty aka Don Rupert  jacarter3 | 09/05/07
Wrong - it requires Windows.  NetArch. | 09/05/07
Are you kidding?  Taz_z | 09/05/07
Talk about honesty........  linux for me | 09/04/07
Well...  zkiwi | 09/04/07
i see  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
and  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
Yes, lets talk about honesty...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
I have to ask, though I already know your answer  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
Not in the least.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
see, you need to leard to comprehend  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
Oh, so you want them to pull PDF?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
comprehension is definitely not your strong point  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
So...  dracolich_prgrm | 11/12/07
They already have  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
doesn't scare me at all...  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
does it have to do  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
oh it was meant to compete...  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
Now you are talking ODF  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
xunil . . .  JLHenry | 09/04/07
At the heart of this..  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
At the heart of this..  Ole Man | 09/05/07
ole man  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Zuny  Ole Man | 09/05/07
RE: Xunil . . .  JLHenry | 09/05/07
you are right. my bad.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Sometimes, I wonder . . .  JLHenry | 09/06/07
I've never liked Ballmer one bit...  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Having trouble reading?  odubtaig | 09/04/07
WMF?  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Huh?  j.m.galvin | 09/04/07
Which part of 'licensing' equates to open?  odubtaig | 09/04/07
Are you saying that every standard  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
That to be an ISO standard...  odubtaig | 09/04/07
you are talking about old versions of office  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
Oh, you me like GIF, PDF, MP4, etc., etc...  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
I have no idea what you're on about.  odubtaig | 09/04/07
wrong  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Stop answering questions I haven't asked.  odubtaig | 09/05/07
So only open source OSes can use ODF...well..  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Again, not what I said. You're not a politician are you?  odubtaig | 09/05/07
I got that backwards.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Still missing the point.  odubtaig | 09/07/07
"Trust me when I tell you "???  Ole Man | 09/04/07
Was anyone  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
awww poor axey  Monkey_MCSE | 09/04/07
The mouth speaks  Ole Man | 09/05/07
Funny, no one really disgarees with me here.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
Multiple standards limit choice  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
How do you even decide if you should try to implement this?  Ole Man | 09/04/07
Simple  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
What does the word standard mean  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
Still waiting?  TripleII | 09/04/07
Only if you promise.....  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
silly  shis-ka-bob | 09/05/07
still waiting??  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
US consumers and government corruption  mighetto | 09/04/07
ugh  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
the alpha and omega  mighetto | 09/04/07
does aleph null come after omega?  shis-ka-bob | 09/05/07
People Have disagreed with you  goxk@... | 09/04/07
Re: Funny, no one really disgarees with me here.  none none | 09/04/07
ROTFLMAO  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
You be honest  glocks out | 09/05/07
And in the meantime  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
Good gawd NO!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
name them  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
according to iso's own documentation  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
Well...  zkiwi | 09/04/07
Wasn't it choice. they were claiming OSS was all about to begin with?  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
Did i  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
I'm still having trouble  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
lets keep it simple  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
Not where I live.  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
Sigh  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
Still doesn't work  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
xuniL_z: Screws 101  j.m.galvin | 09/04/07
Xunil  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
j m gavin  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
tombalablomba  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
just one more point  xuniL_z | 09/04/07
I'm trying  tombalablomba | 09/05/07
you are either...  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Not to jump in the middle of this xunil, but . . .  JLHenry | 09/05/07
Not to step pon your ignorence xuniL_z, but...  B.O.F.H. | 09/05/07
j l henry.....i never said it should be any other way?  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
BOFH where did I state the reasons behind the U.S.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Nice  tombalablomba | 09/05/07
ok  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
change to....  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Yes it was, but it was just another open source lie.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 09/04/07
You are right about keeping track, so it's best  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Multiple Standards  Yagotta B. Kidding | 09/04/07
Don't forget UOF  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
yep  tombalablomba | 09/04/07
Who are you talking about?  cheesyone | 09/05/07
Yep, He's Definitely PEBKAC  itanalyst | 09/04/07
Point 2 is not logical  kevindaly | 09/04/07
And additionally..  kevindaly | 09/04/07
Not True  TripleII | 09/04/07
this is still a good analogy  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
oops .. worng button  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
Grasping at straws  Ole Man | 09/04/07
Want the real low-down? See grokdoc....  techboy_z | 09/04/07
A standard of one ???  Basic Logic | 09/04/07
One more comment and then I'm outta here...  Cardinal_Bill | 09/04/07
oh please one more time...  shis-ka-bob | 09/04/07
Are we standardising the right thing?  Patanjali | 09/04/07
Mary Jo, you're wrong, wrong, wrong  zaine_ridling | 09/05/07
test  zaine_ridling | 09/05/07
test2.1  zaine_ridling | 09/05/07
'ello - who is this?  BanjoPaterson | 09/05/07
You are either  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
oops, meant as a reply to a post.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
But why should anyone have a monopoly!?  shis-ka-bob | 09/05/07
Not encumbered with anything.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
ODF converters are fiction  shis-ka-bob | 09/05/07
Not all standards are open standards  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
But the point is..........  Ole Man | 09/05/07
It's my data  lordshipmayhem | 09/05/07
Ignoring the Obvious  pvhastings | 09/05/07
RE: Why Microsoft deserved to lose the OOXML standards vote  dhays | 09/05/07
This isn't about conversion...  deefburger | 09/05/07
The problem is!  kmashraf | 09/05/07
Ax comes out of the closet!!  deefburger | 09/05/07
My guess:  EagleTheta | 09/05/07
Or ...  daboochmeister | 09/05/07
What would we be without No_Ax?  Rhodie | 09/06/07
Failure of the ISO body  gtg781w | 09/05/07
Success of ISO  putt1ck | 09/05/07
There was nothing abnormal about Microsoft's lobbying  Ole Man | 09/05/07
I'd never vote for an MS standard, here's why!  Narg | 09/05/07
RE: Why Microsoft deserved to lose the OOXML standards vote  orcmid | 09/05/07
Well...  zkiwi | 09/05/07
Microsoft never ever ever claimed  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
xuniL_z. you are delusional  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Talking to yourself again? happy (nt)  JLHenry | 09/06/07
Oh my Gosh! ..........no actually  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
VB6 and VB.NET: Other examples?  orcmid | 09/06/07
Worst enemy, indeed  schratboy@... | 09/05/07
And you can be sure  Ole Man | 09/05/07
Whats Google's position on all of this  pcguy777 | 09/05/07
It's not ODF v. OOXML, IBM v. MS, it's archival compatability  lmb@... | 09/05/07
what about .rtf and html? and .pdf  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Learn what a "Standard" is  Ole Man | 09/05/07
rtf and html and pdf are not standards?  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
You think you have to call the Core Of Engineers?  Ole Man | 09/05/07
What are you talking about?  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
For the last time  Ole Man | 09/06/07
Acutally . . .  JLHenry | 09/06/07
Mixing tomatoes with oranges  Ole Man | 09/06/07
I believe you. btw, you may have noticed that arguing with..  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
They are!  cheesyone | 09/05/07
Well there's your problem  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
Apples and Oranges  wjarvis@... | 09/05/07
try Word 2007.....night and day  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Good On Yer Mate  arcasey | 09/05/07
When is a "Standard" not a standard  donmoldover@... | 09/05/07
what about if they are for 2 different things?  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
2 different things?  Ole Man | 09/05/07
Maybe I shouldn't reply to you.  xuniL_z | 09/05/07
It is sometimes amusing to read your nonesense  Ole Man | 09/05/07
Very well educated thank you very much.  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
Ever heard tell of an "educated fool"?  Ole Man | 09/06/07
Of course, but I didn't realize you were educated.  xuniL_z | 09/06/07
I'm sure you didn't  Ole Man | 09/07/07
Your point  xuniL_z | 09/07/07
Which mail order university did you get your degree from?  B.O.F.H. | 09/08/07
you know  xuniL_z | 09/09/07
Are you idiots still at it?  Duke E. Love | 09/12/07
Systems Theory  mighetto | 09/14/07
P.S. Shut up old man.  Ole Man | 09/19/07
MS shoving DRM? What about Apple?  charles.holland@... | 10/01/07
BitTorrent  BALTHOR | 09/05/07
ODF - Powerpoint  chromeronin | 09/05/07
I think the main . . .  JLHenry | 09/05/07
IMport and fix  chromeronin | 09/05/07
As long as the standards body made a reasoned and fair decision  Boot_Agnostic | 09/05/07
Who Uses OOo  NCWeber_z@... | 09/05/07
Same here!  mannyamador | 09/06/07
The Irony of Objection  orcmid | 09/06/07
The Irony of Rapid Improvement  dave.leigh@... | 09/07/07
"be more successful than attempting to interfere with it"  Ole Man | 09/07/07
Good for All  AllGeek2Me | 09/06/07
OOXML openness  jinko | 09/07/07
New link  jinko | 09/07/07

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