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March 7th, 2009

Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?

Posted by Dana Blankenhorn @ 7:42 am

Categories: GPL, General, Hardware, Legal, Linux, Linux Handheld, Patents, Software Licensing, mass market

Tags: FAT32, TomTom, Microsoft Corp., Linux, UNIX, Operating Systems, Open Source, Software, Dana Blankenhorn

Once upon a time I was going to be a lawyer.

One reason I didn’t go that way was to avoid running down rabbit holes like the one our own Jason Perlow offered us Thursday. (This puzzle called Down the Rabbit Hole is now on sale over at Legendary Toys.)

Microsoft owns FAT32, but it didn’t appear to pursue its rights against companies that supported FAT32 in their Linux thumb drives and consumer electronics.

Until the TomTom case. At which point Jeremy Allison of Samba says Microsoft had secret cross-licensing deals with all those other guys which violate the GPL.

So the question becomes, who should Software Freedom sue?

  1. Go after Microsoft and we crank up the “Star Wars” music. Software Freedom may win but it will take years.
  2. Go after all the Linux licensees who signed the secret cross-licensing deals. But then what is the remedy? The natural response of a licensee would be to drop Linux, and if Microsoft is offering a better solution you’ve just sued yourself out of business.
  3. Sue both Microsoft and the licensees over the issue of the secret cross-licensing agreement.
  4. Go after both sides through regulatory agencies like the FCC.

I’m inclined toward number three myself. If you and I sign a deal to violate someone else’s contract I don’t see how a court could allow that deal to be enforced. But I do have to prove secrecy — I can’t just claim I didn’t know.

These are not questions for a patent lawyer, which is what Software Freedom is looking to hire. It seems more a matter of contract law and discovery. But if you can’t prove secrecy you have lost time and money, which Microsoft could then take action against you to recover.

This is not something you can just innovate around. Microsoft clearly invented the technology at issue. Linux created a way to support it, and Microsoft chose to sign deals with those who put that support into hardware.

TomTom can easily find itself between a rock and a hard place. Make a deal with Microsoft and you violate your deal with Linux. Refuse and Microsoft sues you out of business.

Given that TomTom is Dutch, the dispute also goes before the U.S. International Trade Commission. Does that mean it can also go before the European Union, which has proven itself unfriendly to Microsoft in the past?

So we have a choice between contract and patent law, a choice of jurisdictions, and a choice of recommended remedies.

Which way would you go, if you were Eben Moglen?

Dana BlankenhornDana Blankenhorn has been a business journalist for 30 years, a tech freelancer since 1983. You can follow Dana on Twitter. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 179 Talkback(s)
what secret agreements??
There is no law that says MS is required to sue
ANYBODY, but they have the option to sue
whoever they want that is in violation of their
IP rights. To illustrate for those having a
har... (Read the rest)
Posted by: robbieharrison@... Posted on: 04/01/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
What did MS do wrong?  mdemuth | 03/07/09
Plenty of possible causes  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/07/09
In that case  mdemuth | 03/07/09
Brilliant suggestion  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/07/09
I'm talking about  mdemuth | 03/07/09
Usually I'd agree with you  colinnwn | 03/09/09
OSS file system  Update victim | 03/09/09
stop kidding yourself and others  BrutalTruth | 03/07/09
Huh? Linux DOES use GPLv2!  Zogg | 03/07/09
The problem is Section 7 of GPL *2*, not 3.  wolf_z | 03/09/09
No it doesn't  dgrainge | 03/09/09
What part of...  wolf_z | 03/09/09
not patent friendly at all but  jtiner | 03/09/09
Grasping at straws  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/07/09
That's an important point  DanaBlankenhornZDNet Moderator | 03/08/09
In a sick, twisted kind of way  mdemuth | 03/08/09
WRONG !!!  mrlinux | 03/09/09
In any event  akulkis | 03/09/09
nope  owner@... | 03/09/09
Who knows what Microsoft told anybody to do?  Ole Man | 03/09/09
re:Who knows what Microsoft told anybody to do?  owner@... | 03/09/09
M$ not at fault  plovelace@... | 03/09/09
LOL: like GPL does not suggest violate MS  wellduh | 03/11/09
It's a RICO case  dwinsemius@... | 03/09/09
Interesting idea  djchandler | 03/09/09
I've been saying for years  akulkis | 03/09/09
re:I've been saying for years  owner@... | 03/09/09
maybe...  viztor | 03/11/09
That only applies to trademark  wolf_z | 03/31/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  razzledazzle | 03/07/09
Your lack of knowledge of the GPL  kozmcrae | 03/07/09
C'mon Koz!  MGP2 | 03/07/09
I second the motion!  914four | 03/09/09
Don't ask him to do something logical, we know where that goes (NT)  LiquidLearner | 03/09/09
Ouch!  razzledazzle | 03/07/09
Finding the information is one thing.  kozmcrae | 03/07/09
Correct!  Ole Man | 03/09/09
MS owns Fat32  LiquidLearner | 03/09/09
"That's how it's supposed to work"  Ole Man | 03/09/09
"Linux is using a technology..."  PollyProteus | 03/10/09
Blinders?  jtiner | 03/10/09
MS owns FAT32?  ceo255 | 03/27/09
Wrong GPL  akulkis | 03/09/09
Have you ever read the GPL that covers the Linux kernel?  devlin_X | 03/08/09
Linus is not sole copyright holder on the Linux kernel  Zogg | 03/08/09
Uh...  914four | 03/09/09
Did you mean to reply to my post?  Zogg | 03/09/09
Yes  914four | 03/10/09
The GNU General Public License  Ole Man | 03/09/09
This still does nothing to invalidate my point.  devlin_X | 03/09/09
Yes, your error was relatively minor compared to his. (NT)  Zogg | 03/09/09
Legal Merits  DanaBlankenhornZDNet Moderator | 03/08/09
The USPTO to get it overturned.  osreinstall | 03/07/09
"One way licensing doesn't violate the GPL."  Yagotta B. Kidding | 03/07/09
I think you are thinking about GPLv3  osreinstall | 03/07/09
And that...  wolf_z | 03/09/09
Another thing  osreinstall | 03/09/09
Ditch vFAT/FAT32 and go for a GPL-friendly file system  Tony Agudo | 03/07/09
Or ditch a GPL OS for a BSD based OS which appears to be more...  ye | 03/07/09
Bingo  frgough | 03/07/09
Which is why  LiquidLearner | 03/09/09
Uh, no.  914four | 03/09/09
Multiple Licenses - same product  Timpraetor | 03/09/09
Re:Multiple Licenses - same product  jtiner | 03/09/09
Of course, Tom Tom has an affirmative defence  akulkis | 03/09/09
To akulkis  wolf_z | 03/31/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  obvio.capitao@... | 03/07/09
Are You Nuts?  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/07/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  Kelledin | 03/07/09
Disagree  razzledazzle | 03/07/09
Inciting Infringement?!  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/07/09
How you argue Microsoft is inciting infringement  DanaBlankenhornZDNet Moderator | 03/08/09
I Don't Think That Cuts It  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/08/09
Oops...  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/08/09
The "incitement" may be  Timpraetor | 03/09/09
Open your eyes!  TheTruthisOutThere@... | 03/08/09
Re:Open your eyes!  jtiner | 03/08/09
Except Bilski is about *business processes* not software  wolf_z | 03/09/09
Try the machine or transformation test  jtiner | 03/09/09
A file system does...  wolf_z | 03/09/09
modify but not under the terms of the test  jtiner | 03/09/09
Yes, but only in a way  akulkis | 03/09/09
Most Sensible Comments Here  SuperSean | 03/09/09
BZZZZZZZT! Wrong.  akulkis | 03/09/09
What about the MS "Covenant Not to Sue" ?  bswiss | 03/09/09
NO, MS does not have a FAT32 patent any more.  akulkis | 03/09/09
Failure to defend a patent  wolf_z | 03/31/09
What about FAT32  LiquidLearner | 03/09/09
what about FAT32  jtiner | 03/09/09
Option 2 is the their only real recource  No_Ax_to_Grind | 03/07/09
Completely agree  razzledazzle | 03/07/09
Re:Option 2 is the their only real recource  jtiner | 03/07/09
Is TOM TOM's code in 'firmware'?  V@... | 03/07/09
That's idiotic  akulkis | 03/09/09
Not so.  Custard_over_2x_Pie | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  jtiner | 03/07/09
Invalidate patent and sue GPL voilators  Brent R Brian | 03/07/09
This is what MS wants  Alan Smithie | 03/08/09
It's not FAT32 and It's been USPTO-reviewed already  orcmid | 03/09/09
Invalidate the patent??  archangel999 | 03/09/09
Actually, MS invalidated the patents themselves.  akulkis | 03/09/09
You are wrong  wolf_z | 03/31/09
MS has chosen the wrong battle again  Alan Smithie | 03/08/09
That's why I mentioned the EU  DanaBlankenhornZDNet Moderator | 03/08/09
Not true  Alan Smithie | 03/08/09
EU does recognise patents  dgrainge | 03/09/09
One other item.......  linux for me | 03/09/09
Wrong.  osreinstall | 03/09/09
I don't think he was saying  colinnwn | 03/09/09
I didn't read it that way.  osreinstall | 03/09/09
Signed contract=enforcement  mswift@... | 03/09/09
Signing contracts...  ceo255 | 03/27/09
Neither patents nor copyrights must be defended  wolf_z | 03/31/09
Nothing to see here  Loverock Davidson | 03/09/09
Polly Parrot  Alan Smithie | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  jtiner | 03/08/09
Maybe...  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/08/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  Henaway | 03/08/09
DLLS ?  dgrainge | 03/09/09
No they weren't  CMKRNL | 03/09/09
Yet another dork  akulkis | 03/09/09
Ick  plovelace@... | 03/09/09
Totally Agree  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/08/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  jtiner | 03/08/09
Re: Maybe  jtiner | 03/08/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  reibertg@... | 03/09/09
Dana, Jeremy's not a lawyer either...  Morgan_Reed | 03/09/09
Just license it already and stop moaning  archangel999 | 03/09/09
I love MICROSOFT  ragingpanda | 03/09/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  mark_pearson@... | 03/09/09
The issue is long name extensions to FAT  SwashbucklingCowboy | 03/09/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  dgrainge | 03/09/09
You really don't know what you're talking about  archangel999 | 03/09/09
pot - kettle  jtiner | 03/09/09
yes, it was upheld, pre- Bilsky  akulkis | 03/09/09
Dumb patents!  mswift@... | 03/09/09
MS Owns it  archangel999 | 03/09/09
umm....  NoThomas | 03/09/09
Probably right  archangel999 | 03/09/09
Yep definitely preceded Windows 2000  Custard_over_2x_Pie | 03/10/09
Sounds like the mob to me...  macman_85602@... | 03/09/09
It's called licensing  archangel999 | 03/09/09
FAT32 was NOT developed by Microsoft...  kokuryu | 03/09/09
Wrong  archangel999 | 03/09/09
Long Filename support  JeremyBoden | 03/09/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  danm50 | 03/09/09
You should research before you talk  archangel999 | 03/09/09
maybe all should research a little more...  jtiner | 03/09/09
Agree - Patent Reform is Essential...but,  archangel999 | 03/09/09
FAT32 doesn't fall under GPL!!!!!  Narg | 03/09/09
If y'wanna play  Ole Man | 03/09/09
Bravo  Alan Smithie | 03/09/09
Ofcourse FAT32 isn't GPL  TedKraan | 03/11/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  ID@... | 03/09/09
lack of understanding on your part, I think  jtiner | 03/09/09
GPL Version 2.0 Section 7...  wolf_z | 03/31/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  Update victim | 03/09/09
Where are the optimists? Where is the truth?  tgilbert@... | 03/09/09
A bit fast, here  Mitch 74 | 03/09/09
We have a remedy.....  Colfax_Mac | 03/09/09
This statement is incorrect  wolf_z | 03/31/09
How about everybody sue everybody else  Crestview | 03/09/09
Why should there be a lawsuit in the first place?  owner@... | 03/09/09
So many words  akulkis | 03/10/09
They should sue Jason Perlow for another lousy blog on this topic...  transposeIT | 03/09/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  akulkis | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  akulkis | 03/10/09
Who should be sued?  hornerea | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  ceh4702 | 03/10/09
JPG revisited???  esalkin | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  Nemo_Fossor | 03/10/09
Sounds like a plan. --- NT ---  joe.smetona@... | 03/11/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  akulkis | 03/10/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  akulkis | 03/10/09
Sue MS for taking out patent - lack of social conscious  wellduh | 03/10/09
lack of social conscious ????  esalkin | 03/11/09
FAT32 = Garbage.  joe.smetona@... | 03/11/09
RE: Who should Software Freedom sue on FAT32?  madrucke@... | 03/11/09
what secret agreements??  robbieharrison@... | 04/01/09

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