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July 2nd, 2008

How Linux app install leaves one PC expert befuddled

Posted by Jason Perlow @ 5:00 am

Categories: Desktop, Linux, Open Source, Software Infrastructure, VMWare, Virtualization

Tags: Ubuntu, VMware Inc., Tool, Adrian, VMWare Tools, Linux, Productivity, UNIX, Open Source, Operating Systems

failadrian.jpgAdrian, you dumb arse!

At least that was my initial reaction when I read his “Linux’s dirty little secret” column about his struggles with installing applications onto a Linux distro. It was either the Linux Geek rage originating from the knowing that he didn’t Read the Fine Manual (RTFM) or the sheer jealousy of not getting 300+ Talkbacks whenever I post something on ZDNet like the fine Mr. Kingsley-Hughes. But I digress.

You can’t really blame Adrian, though. Adrian is a relatively new Linux user – he comes from the world of Windows, where you double click on a SETUP.EXE icon and minutes later, you’ve got an application installed on your system. With Linux, that’s not the case – different package standards between distributions and lack of standardization in software manifest tools has created a situation where on the most of the major Linux distros, you have Red Hat Package Manager (RPM) files and on others, namely Ubuntu and Debian, you have Debian Archives (.DEB).

Click on the “Read the rest of this entry” link below for more.

To add further complexity into the situation, the RPMs and DEBs used on one distro are not necessarily compatible with the RPMs or DEBs on another. And some software doesn’t come in a neat little package format – they come as good ‘ol compressed tarballs (tar.gz or tar.bz2). Case in point, if you want to use the very latest builds of anything from a Open Source project such as Mozilla or OpenOffice.org, and don’t want to wait for your distribution to spoon feed it to you over their network repositories, you need to un-Gzip or un-Bzip2 and tar extract the software to a directory and make manual symbolic links to the executables and launch icons on the desktop. Fun, right?

Granted, Adrian’s specific problem could have been solved by consulting Ubuntu Forums or going to VMWare’s fine Communities  web site, where the VMWare Tools installation procedure is documented in detail. VMWare Tools is unique because it was primarily designed to use with Enterprise Linux distributions, such as RHEL and SLES – and because it is so tightly integrated with the Linux Kernel, it requires that specific driver modules be built for each distribution’s kernel, at each specific version level. For RHEL and SLES, you just need to install a single RPM file and run the configuration script, as everything is pre-built — these distros don’t change that quickly, so VMWare is safe with only needing to build modules for them periodically. But in the case of poor Adrian and Ubuntu 8.04, where the distro is refreshed every six months, you have to un-gzip-tar the software, install the linux-source and linux-headers, and install the build-essential package which contains all the necessary compiler and developer tool dependencies to build the kernel modules. THEN he can run the installer script. Got it? Good.

Fortunately, the problem will eventually just “Go Away” — the VMWare Tools package was released into Open Source, and eventually, every distribution will just have it built-in, like the newly released OpenSUSE 11 which is already VMWare enabled. I suspect that within short notice, open-vm-tools as well as the Microsoft Hyper-V hypercall adapter modifications to Xen and the Sun xVM VirtualBox tools will all be available in Ubuntu and any distribution that wants to use them. My sources tell me even ultra-geeky Gentoo, the source based distro popular with embedded systems and boot CDs, has it available.

This is all fine and dandy for VMWare Tools, but it’s hardly a happy ending for the balance of Linux users. Yes, the Linux desktop experience is improving. Yes, plenty of software is available on the download repositories for a lot of distributions, especially Ubuntu. But until this stuff is totally foolproof, even seasoned PC experts like Adrian are going to be thrown through a loop.

Do we need form a concerted effort to make Linux applications easier to install? Talk Back and Let Me Know.

Jason PerlowJason Perlow is a technologist with over two decades of experience integrating large heterogeneous multi-vendor computing environments in Fortune 500 companies. See his full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.

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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 323 Talkback(s)
RE: Rage against Adrian
I don't think it was referring to "Read The FINE Manual." (Read the rest)
Posted by: rMatey Posted on: 01/27/09 You are currently: a Guest | | Terms of Use
YES!!!!  James T. Kirk | 07/02/08
Applications ALWAYS install on Windows WITHOUT any sort of problem  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
Where did he say that? Any chance you could actually...  ye | 07/02/08
Well I'll argue against what he said...  storm14k | 07/02/08
Make that one ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
You are correct..  storm14k | 07/02/08
Nothing to do with fr0thy2 post. (nt)  ye | 07/02/08
The original post...  storm14k | 07/02/08
But the OP did not say Windows programs ALWAYS install...  ye | 07/03/08
Firefox for one  bigsibling | 07/07/08
What he said  mjolnar@... | 07/03/08
Stop trying  daengbo | 07/03/08
They might install but to get them running correctly......  atari8bit@... | 07/04/08
For once you are right...well 99% of them do...nt  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Dificult installs are a detriment to Linux  d4rkaine | 07/17/08
Ever heard of the term "DLL hell"?  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Yeah.  frgough | 07/02/08
Agreed ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
The registry is your friend ...  dkawalec | 07/02/08
It's you friend ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
lol [nt]  dkawalec | 07/02/08
Just what problems do you keep seeing with the registry?  ye | 07/02/08
Registry garbage  20kwfence | 07/03/08
You didn't answer the question.  ye | 07/03/08
I've had frequent problems with it.  D. W. Bierbaum | 07/03/08
You didn't answer the question either.  ye | 07/03/08
Bad Registry?  zenwalker | 07/06/08
@Dkunzma: Any supporting facts?  ye | 07/06/08
re: I've had frequent problems with it.  Badgered | 07/18/08
agreed  kcredden2 | 07/02/08
DLL hell? Well, I have to admit...  James T. Kirk | 07/02/08
Yes. Though that was, what? 10 years ago?  GuidingLight | 07/02/08
Yes, DLL hell is virus hell, try uninstalling a virus (nt)  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
Not as much an issue today with newer Windows Installer  DevGuy_z | 07/02/08
Ever heard of the term "Dependency Hell"?  andrew53 | 07/03/08
Not even close.  daengbo | 07/03/08
Not entirely true  kingttx | 07/07/08
What Were You Using?  daengbo | 07/08/08
If I am not mistaken ....  ShadeTree | 07/02/08
Well ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
No advertisements .....  ShadeTree | 07/02/08
Not if you agree to it in the first place  jperlowZDNet Moderator | 07/02/08
Hopefully that is not to say....  xuniL_z | 07/02/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  lawryll@... | 07/02/08
haven't you noticed that most *ix admins have similar attitudes  code_Warrior | 07/02/08
Imagine trying to landscape a hectare of garden  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
Imagine?  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Another old China hand ?  mhenriday | 07/03/08
Ah...  frgough | 07/02/08
.....  Linux User 147560 | 07/02/08
You need to open your eyes,,,,,,  linux for me | 07/02/08
Hadn't noticed that...  storm14k | 07/02/08
What about *nux systems then?  xuniL_z | 07/02/08
Sure I can enligten you happy  storm14k | 07/03/08
Well, i never intended to......  xuniL_z | 07/07/08
LOL! Sure they don't That's why I didn't just have to reboot...  ye | 07/03/08
User error...  storm14k | 07/03/08
Nope, no user error. Face it Linux isn't perfect.  ye | 07/03/08
I'd hope Im never on a project with YOU  storm14k | 07/02/08
So far I haven't seen much out of him...time will tell. nt  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Developer problem with VMware ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
No different in the Windows world  shawn_dude | 07/02/08
Great post  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
Give me a break.  frgough | 07/02/08
Oh no !!!  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Yawn.  frgough | 07/02/08
Show me the money ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
The OP (shawn_dude) referenced...  ye | 07/03/08
frgough-ting at the mouth again? (nt)  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
You might be right...  storm14k | 07/02/08
You've just proved my second point about  frgough | 07/02/08
RE:You've just proved my 3rd point about  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
Well you certainly don't scratch a scratch...  storm14k | 07/02/08
.....  Linux User 147560 | 07/02/08
Actually - they are  p0figster | 07/03/08
I would beg differ...  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
install on linux  stdo57@... | 07/07/08
Getting there ... but still needs work is very accurate - nt  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Open Source software  alaniane@... | 07/07/08
Exactly True  shawn_dude | 07/08/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  alaskareport | 07/02/08
Linux is mainstream dumba$$  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
keep sailing that river  frgough | 07/02/08
Hobbyist OS?  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Hobbyist / Expert?  GuidingLight | 07/02/08
This is a Classic ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Clarity is called for here!  GuidingLight | 07/02/08
Different breed of animal ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Thank you, MisterMiester (you too n0neXn0ne)  GuidingLight | 07/02/08
.....  Linux User 147560 | 07/02/08
LOL! Yes, Linux User 147560  GuidingLight | 07/02/08
@: GuidingLight, ... light one candle and stop cursing the darkness  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
re: Hobbyist / Expert?  deaf_e_kate | 07/02/08
You MUST learn  storm14k | 07/02/08
Comparo for U  Freebird54 | 07/05/08
He was, most likely, refering to  James T. Kirk | 07/02/08
One word....Alien  devlin_X | 07/03/08
easier/simpler to perform installs  k1nj0 | 07/03/08
My experince is a novice...but I would have to disagree...sorry.  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Average user and non-average distro do not mix well  ConcernedReader | 07/06/08
I'm planning on moving from Ubuntu to Suse  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Strawman  frgough | 07/02/08
No you're wrong ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Ridiculous  markbn | 07/02/08
Well let's see ..  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
More "market share" data ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
One of these stats is VERY revealing.  xuniL_z | 07/03/08
Stop living in denial  markbn | 07/03/08
MS is a monopoly but it's not entrenched..  eMJayy | 07/04/08
the title of your post says it all  markbn | 07/10/08
Yes, WinME sucked...bigtime.  gypkap@... | 07/03/08
yes, because supercomputers  JamesDoyle | 07/03/08
You dropped your paddle.......  linux for me | 07/02/08
Let's be fair now ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Red hat  frgough | 07/02/08
circular logic alert !  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
You are the real loser.....  linux for me | 07/02/08
Linux will never be mainstream for the desktop  marks055@... | 07/02/08
Thank God for that ...  startx.jeff | 07/03/08
But your going against the grain of  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Confusion comes in misuse of word Linux  hamobu | 07/02/08
Ditto  b.bob | 07/02/08
Great points  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
re: Great points too  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
Lots!!!  NetArch. | 07/02/08
Don't forget  k1nj0 | 07/03/08
The difference is  frgough | 07/02/08
Both are Linux. But if Windows is Windows...  Letophoro | 07/02/08
So--..  gypkap@... | 07/03/08
Incompatibilty.  Letophoro | 07/03/08
Not the same  slaskoske | 07/07/08
Good Article  jkohut | 07/02/08
To my mind, jkohut - and others before him - make a valid point :  mhenriday | 07/03/08
Linux dirty secret  croberts | 07/02/08
Windows dirty secret  fr0thy2 | 07/02/08
Put your bible away  croberts | 07/02/08
re: Put your bible away  deaf_e_kate | 07/02/08
re: Put your bible away  Joe Dufflebag | 07/03/08
BINGO!....right on the money. Shhh don't  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
This was about linux...and Linux has a ton of  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
You were right up to a point.  storm14k | 07/02/08
You forgot binary imcompatibility  NetArch. | 07/02/08
I really believe...  storm14k | 07/02/08
BIG ++ (nt)  kingttx | 07/07/08
Alien..  20kwfence | 07/03/08
Thank you for sharing the truth...  storm14k | 07/03/08
"Even" Gentoo?  Yagotta B. Kidding | 07/02/08
RE: Rage against Linux package differences  21_years_IT | 07/02/08
You wish has been granted!  devlin_X | 07/03/08
I will never understand...  storm14k | 07/03/08
I know of one  kingttx | 07/07/08
SuSE handles RPM really nicely.  bjbrock | 07/02/08
You gotta be Kidding?  jpr75_z | 07/02/08
re: You gotta be Kidding?  deaf_e_kate | 07/02/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  DannyO_0x98 | 07/02/08
We have a "Slider" ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Adrian's point was that it should be easy....  doublefrangelico | 07/02/08
When we read...  jasonp@... | 07/02/08
re: Adrian's point was that it 'should be easy'....  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
So you're saying ...  dkawalec | 07/02/08
RE: So you're saying ...  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
should be easier  slaskoske | 07/07/08
It IS easy...  storm14k | 07/02/08
Regular users....  warf33 | 07/03/08
...understand perfectly...  storm14k | 07/03/08
if you install from repositories  A.Lizard | 07/07/08
My Distro of Choice  D. T. Schmitz | 07/02/08
Have to wonder who actually read the article  wilryder70 | 07/02/08
The real dumbass ...  dkawalec | 07/02/08
Do you really understand the install process?  storm14k | 07/02/08
Where's the value in building in difficulty?  dkawalec | 07/02/08
Who's building difficulty?  storm14k | 07/02/08
You proved Adrian's point  Spats30 | 07/02/08
Not gonna happen.  frgough | 07/02/08
It had already happened.  storm14k | 07/02/08
That is the point...  warf33 | 07/03/08
Have you actually tried it?  storm14k | 07/03/08
Repository != standardized install  wolf_z | 07/03/08
I missed the Mac/Windows repository happy  storm14k | 07/03/08
At last some common sense comments  craiglarry | 07/11/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  dwr50 | 07/02/08
Ubunti is NOT Linux !  j.dupont | 07/02/08
Please stop the distro wars.  storm14k | 07/02/08
And...  SpikeyMike | 07/02/08
I did not start a distro war.  j.dupont | 07/02/08
Whats unfair...  storm14k | 07/03/08
Don't blame the user!  HooNoze | 07/02/08
Don't blame the OS.  storm14k | 07/02/08
It's the environment  HooNoze | 07/02/08
Kernel vs distro  storm14k | 07/03/08
Perception of usability  HooNoze | 07/03/08
Don't believe them...  storm14k | 07/03/08
What's an average user?  craiglarry | 07/11/08
FYI  n0neXn0ne | 07/02/08
Users confused over rpm and deb?  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
You just taught me something.  storm14k | 07/02/08
Learned from years of Windows use ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Learend behaviour is hard to shake..  storm14k | 07/03/08
Seriously flawed list  Ed BottZDNet Moderator | 07/02/08
In the same context as Linux ...  MisterMiester | 07/02/08
Another way of explaining it.  hamobu | 07/02/08
120 and rising  pjotr123 | 07/02/08
OK, Ok if we're going for 300 I'm in...  Mac Hosehead | 07/03/08
The greatest enemy is within...  brettz9 | 07/02/08
Hopefully a helpful reaction  pjotr123 | 07/02/08
Great site!  eMJayy | 07/04/08
Thanks  brettz9 | 07/05/08
Idiots and Abuse [This most most likely to be ignored]  Kaiwai | 07/02/08
My reaction was exactly the same as Adrian's.  tracy anne | 07/02/08
Similar experience..  storm14k | 07/03/08
Do we need form a concerted effort to make Linux applications  kcredden2 | 07/02/08
Not intended to be a flame  *nixFan | 07/03/08
Thanks for that (Tracy)!  zkiwi | 07/02/08
Good article I'm working on my Linux skills  marks055@... | 07/02/08
Typo  CreepinJesus | 07/03/08
RTFM  baalpeteor | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  steven.quinn@... | 07/03/08
The Reality  wizardb@... | 07/03/08
RE:Reality is ?  n0neXn0ne | 07/03/08
I smell b.s.  20kwfence | 07/03/08
Reality is...  storm14k | 07/03/08
Actually I have what I need  wizardb@... | 07/08/08
Linux is not windows  ardnivar | 07/03/08
RE: Linux != Windows  n0neXn0ne | 07/03/08
Exactly!  HooNoze | 07/03/08
News for you...  gypkap@... | 07/03/08
RE:News for you... too  n0neXn0ne | 07/03/08
Command line installs?  HooNoze | 07/03/08
Sifting through the problems...  storm14k | 07/03/08
Chasing of wild geese  HooNoze | 07/03/08
Glad you had a look.  storm14k | 07/03/08
Wow! I thought I was reading one of my posts about Vista.  ye | 07/04/08
And that's the kind of arrogant attitude...  hasta la Vista, bah-bie | 07/03/08
well, you have 3 options...  n0neXn0ne | 07/03/08
you are old hat linux geek  craiglarry | 07/05/08
Re: Linux is not windows  slaskoske | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  stevenpowers@... | 07/03/08
RE: "EXPERT" Rage against Adrian  bsaunders43 | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  gettinoriginal2@... | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  warf33 | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  BobK Linux Noob | 07/03/08
Hey.. Don't dis toasters happy  *nixFan | 07/03/08
Software Installation and Virtualization  chaz6 | 07/03/08
Back 2 Windows  willem@... | 07/03/08
LInux Newbies  scot_c@... | 07/03/08
Issues with Linux mindset  gribblq | 07/03/08
RE: Linux Installs  joelovett | 07/03/08
Sometimes Adrian is a *****.  LazLong | 07/03/08
re. Sometimes Adrian is a *****.  joelovett | 07/07/08
Perception or Misperception?  LazLong | 07/09/08
Why keep blaming Linux?  rarsa | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  trenchsol | 07/03/08
Make Linux easier to install. I already did but no one is listening to me.  usarcomputertec | 07/03/08
What about Novell Client for Linux ?  modicr@... | 07/03/08
Seems simple ...  MisterMiester | 07/03/08
Only for (Open)Suse  modicr@... | 07/03/08
You're right ...  MisterMiester | 07/03/08
Novell's fault according to this post ...  MisterMiester | 07/03/08
... but why they say "for Linux"?  modicr@... | 07/05/08
What are we talking about here?  LazLong | 07/03/08
Novell NetWare and Novell Open Enterprise Server  modicr@... | 07/03/08
Average User Doesn't Like This BS.....  Narg | 07/03/08
Linux reminds me of DOS  dragon@... | 07/03/08
(deleted)  modicr@... | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  JamesDoyle | 07/03/08
Grow up!  BobK Linux Noob | 07/04/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  joelovett | 07/07/08
A great start.  kozmcrae | 07/03/08
Now you should be one closer to that 300 mark!  EdNetman | 07/03/08
Even Software from the Repositories causes Problems  winthropyu | 07/03/08
RE: Rage against Adrian--shooting the messenger....  pgf_666@... | 07/03/08
You FAIL at calling Adrian FAIL  supercharlie | 07/04/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  joeowens | 07/04/08
For Joe Owens  TtfnJohn | 07/04/08
Jason, do you realize that guys like you are Microsoft's best friend?  georgeou | 07/04/08
Murph is Brilliant!  tshinder@... | 07/04/08
Sorry to have to disagree, but...  jrbales@... | 07/05/08
Well, I said Jason is great at swinging the fence sitters  georgeou | 07/05/08
With all due respect  jperlowZDNet Moderator | 07/05/08
Good summation (nt)  n0neXn0ne | 07/05/08
I suggest that was your motivation  georgeou | 07/06/08
george ou, lesson learned..  n0neXn0ne | 07/05/08
Get a clue, you don't know anything about me  georgeou | 07/06/08
? Why did you...  n0neXn0ne | 07/06/08
RE:georgeou, guys like you were Microsoft's best friend?  n0neXn0ne | 07/05/08
I said I was a tech columnist, not a biblical figure  jperlowZDNet Moderator | 07/05/08
Why don't you tell us what you do for a living tough guy?  georgeou | 07/06/08
It should be obvious I'm not a Vista consultant wink (nt)  n0neXn0ne | 07/06/08
Well that's good news for the Vista Users...nt  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
Learn to read  georgeou | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  tshinder@... | 07/04/08
I just want a system that works  bobharrison2002@... | 07/05/08
ADRIAN HAD A STUPID POINT  pashok99 | 07/05/08
RE: Some people need specific programs  jfsayre@... | 07/05/08
re:... need specific programs?  n0neXn0ne | 07/05/08
re; some people need specific programs  pauluc | 07/05/08
Yes and no. Two ways forward: one-click-install vs. Berlin packaging API.  dank@... | 07/05/08
Good Idea  jperlowZDNet Moderator | 07/06/08
Now that makes sense - good luck...nt  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
This is exactly what we need  wizardb@... | 07/13/08
Each Distro is a Unique System  stomfi@... | 07/06/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  The Rifleman | 07/06/08
YES...John E Whad said it best...  socialism=nowhere | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  slaskoske | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  Ceridan | 07/07/08
Yep, Biggest Problem with Linux  chris@... | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  twodoorsup | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  Ronin69 | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  dschmutz@... | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  lostinspace | 07/07/08
The real problem isn't with Windows or Linux.  simond@... | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  Roger Davis | 07/07/08
Adrian's VMWare Linux Experience  rosewood_arts@... | 07/07/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  GameOvR | 07/07/08
You got your talkback quota on this one.  bjbrock | 07/08/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  philargyry | 07/08/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  bb_apptix | 07/08/08
well  larsalt | 07/08/08
I actualy think it's almost a compliment  larsalt | 07/08/08
Linux VS Windows  as901 | 07/13/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  sydpdx | 07/19/08
Wells and ZDNet Licked by 1-Click  jabailo1 | 07/21/08
RE: Rage against Adrian  rMatey | 01/27/09

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