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August 6th, 2007

Something uncomfortable about DEFCON's treatment of Dateline NBC reporter

Posted by Ryan Naraine @ 8:12 am

Categories: Black Hat, Botnets, Browsers, Data theft, Exploit code, Hackers, Metasploit, Open source, Passwords, Patch Watch, Punditocracy, Responsible disclosure, Vulnerability research, Zero-day attacks

Tags: Hacking, TV, Reporter, Hacker, Conference, Ryan Naraine

In Focus » See more posts on: Black Hat

I don’t know about you but after watching the video and reading the reports (George Ou, Techmeme, Threat Level) about DEFCON’s outing of Dateline NBC producer Michelle Madigan, I came away with an uncomfortable feeling that it was rather childish, over-the-top and unnecessary.

For starters, there’s the irony of underground hackers preaching about rules and trust. Please. What’s so criminal about going undercover to get a news story? Hackers at this conference take great pride in doing man-in-the-middle password hijacks for Wall of Sheep giggles. DEFCON folks routinely commandeer Las Vegas television displays, ATM screens and hotel TV networks. Suddenly, OMG, a female TV reporter with a camera rigged into her handbag is a terrorist on wheels.

We’re talking about an entire sub-culture built on exactly what Madigan did — breaking the rules. This is an industry that celebrates the the ignoring of EULAs, encourages social-engineering (pretexting) and basks in the glory of sticking it to the man. Yes, law-breaking in the hacking world is romanticized.

So then, was it really necessary for DEFCON organizer Jeff Moss, a guy who is usually even-keeled and unruffled, to trigger a mob frenzy to get Madigan tossed from his conference?

The back story is that DEFCON was tipped off to Madigan’s plans to use a hidden camera to interview hackers for (this is where it gets really bizarre) for a story that would have exposed people admitting to hacking crimes.

Moss, who also runs CMP’s Black Hat conference, openly admits that his staff negotiated several times with Madigan to come clean by using a press pass. Show organizers were part of the plans to lure her to a packed hall where Moss would point her out, leading to “burn the witch” chants and a scary chasing of the female reporter through the parking lot.

Reporters were pre-briefed on the plans so they could get photographers in place for the ruckus. All this planning for a public spectacle seems so needless when Moss and his team could have simply walked up to Madigan quietly and have her expelled for violating the show rules.

What if Madigan had gotten hurt by some maladjusted person? Would Moss have accepted responsibility? These conferences are built on borderline anarchy so save me the preaching about ethics and trust.

Even more strange was the gleeful hand clapping by the bloggers and reporters who covered Madigan’s misfortune (Dan Goodin’s “scurries like a cockroach” tagline was among the nicer ones I’ve seen). Today it’s Madigan, tomorrow it may be you.

Ryan NaraineRyan Naraine is a journalist and security evangelist at Kaspersky Lab. He manages Threatpost.com, a security news portal. Here is Ryan's full profile and disclosure of his industry affiliations.


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  • Talkback
  • Most Recent of 112 Talkback(s)
Standards of her profession  Robert Crocker | 08/06/07
BULL !!!  No_Ax_to_Grind | 08/06/07
Good point  John Zern | 08/06/07
Actually, I'd suggest  maldain | 08/06/07
Wipe your mouth.  Grayson Peddie | 08/06/07
Who  Linux User 147560 | 08/06/07
Your mixed up. Badly  Cayble | 08/07/07
hmm  Badgered | 08/06/07
She did try to out a Fed  georgeou | 08/06/07
Source?  Ryan NaraineZDNet Moderator | 08/07/07
source?  shane@... | 08/07/07
Just another sensationalist reporter  Golodh2 | 08/07/07
A member of the press speaks...  RedHeron | 08/07/07
Correction...  RedHeron | 08/07/07
Defcon  kphipps@... | 08/06/07
The exact same can be said of the hackers  Badgered | 08/06/07
Hardly . . .  JLHenry | 08/06/07
Quite right  Badgered | 08/06/07
Hardly likely...  Technocrat@... | 08/06/07
What a stupid statement.  No_Ax_to_Grind | 08/06/07
No more stupid than yours  dragosani | 08/06/07
"Rumor was..."  John Zern | 08/06/07
You are so full of it AX  k12IT | 08/06/07
re: You are so full of it AX  Badgered | 08/06/07
Actually it does  maldain | 08/06/07
I should have noted the one exception  maldain | 08/06/07
Not True.  JLHenry | 08/06/07
yes  Badgered | 08/06/07
Two Wrongs  bdammann | 08/07/07
Actually there was  maldain | 08/06/07
See Above, But also . . .  JLHenry | 08/06/07
Actually . . .  JLHenry | 08/06/07
re: What a stupid statement.  none none | 08/06/07
Hackers... Children. What's the diff?  notme403@... | 08/06/07
No Sympathy!  cleric1x | 08/06/07
Crooks and Con Men hate  No_Ax_to_Grind | 08/06/07
Scary Chases  dragosani | 08/06/07
That doesn't mean that . . .  JLHenry | 08/06/07
Would Moss have accepted responsibility?  John Zern | 08/06/07
I say it's a double edged sword  Shelendrea | 08/06/07
Sorry but horse pucky  maldain | 08/06/07
Horse pucky? I think not.  Shelendrea | 08/06/07
You do know  dragosani | 08/06/07
Naaahhh . . .She works for NBC wink (nt)  JLHenry | 08/06/07
re:You do know  Badgered | 08/06/07
Sweeping Generalization?!?!  melvinlusk | 08/06/07
she's irresponsible too....  sjaaxken | 08/06/07
ars technica's take  dragosani | 08/06/07
Chances are...  Stuka | 08/06/07
Feels like a lynching  John L. Ries | 08/06/07
Not even close to a lynching  maldain | 08/06/07
Paparazzi  dragosani | 08/06/07
Re: Feels like a lynching  none none | 08/06/07
Re: Something uncomfortable about DEFCON's treatment of Dateline NBC report  none none | 08/06/07
Back at ya, Naraine  DamnCat | 08/06/07
Try living in LA  Amonra | 08/06/07
She lied to get in.. bye bye  Been_Done_Before | 08/06/07
Thank you Ryan  blc1839 | 08/06/07
I feel sorry for you.  Been_Done_Before | 08/06/07
MS actually has one of the best security audits and a great relationship  georgeou | 08/06/07
Its kinda funny  Been_Done_Before | 08/06/07
The hackers (researchers) at DEFCON make all of us more secure  georgeou | 08/06/07
ty  shane@... | 08/07/07
RE: Thank you Ryan  joe6pack_z | 08/06/07
NBC, home of the the Exploding Fuel Tanks  Danometer | 08/06/07
Fact check - They didn't toss her from conference  georgeou | 08/06/07
Yea he offered her one in the video.  Been_Done_Before | 08/06/07
3:30  Ryan NaraineZDNet Moderator | 08/06/07
Wait a few seconds longer and Moss offered her a press pass  georgeou | 08/06/07
The contiinuation...  Ryan NaraineZDNet Moderator | 08/06/07
I agree  shane@... | 08/07/07
all things considered..  shane@... | 08/07/07
ZDNet and NBC?  grail@... | 08/07/07
There wasn't really a chase, it was a pack of reporters  georgeou | 08/06/07
Ryan, I've got to disagree with you on this one  Dang-Good | 08/06/07
You wrote...  Ryan NaraineZDNet Moderator | 08/06/07
Without those rules and trust, you don't have a DEFCON  georgeou | 08/06/07
Not breaking rules to break rules  AySz88 | 08/06/07
DEFCON will toss out criminals every time  georgeou | 08/06/07
To catch a...  shane@... | 08/07/07
You know what that is..  shane@... | 08/07/07
Since Peter Jennings left ABC ..  jack-daniels@... | 08/07/07
What?  msdead | 08/07/07
Live by the sword  Blissfully_Ignorant | 08/07/07
who cares about her?  shraven | 08/07/07
bottom line  kckn4fun | 08/07/07
Main stream news media is a plage opon us!  mwisniew | 08/07/07
You're delusional  FatherJ | 08/07/07
Oops - that I always hit the wrong button.  FatherJ | 08/07/07
"Today it?s Madigan, tomorrow it may be you."  FatherJ | 08/07/07
what goes around, comes around  CaptOska | 08/07/07
Not feeling it, Ryan  ejhonda | 08/07/07
Ryan Naraine, completely out of touch with his ZDNet "specialty," as always  shane@... | 08/07/07
Yellow journalism  zclayton2 | 08/07/07
I agree with George  croberts | 08/07/07
Defcon was out of line  Stanford3421 | 08/07/07
Equality and her actions  dragosani | 08/07/07
DEFCON was out of line..  Stanford3421 | 08/08/07
What the?  shane@... | 08/08/07
You wear some fine blinders there  dragosani | 08/08/07
the funny part is...  caldeb@... | 08/08/07
Defcon's Hidden Reporter  caldeb@... | 08/08/07
Agreed  shane@... | 08/08/07
"...Dateline's To Catch a Predator? They use terrible tactics," ???????????  jmelnik | 08/10/07
Vigilante justice  dragosani | 08/10/07
Sticking up for predators and bullies?  Stanford3421 | 08/10/07
This needed a follow-up  dragosani | 09/10/07
Defending child molestors...?  Stanford3421 | 09/10/07
Defending Proper Legal Procedures and Innocent moms  dragosani | 09/11/07
Bullet in the head  Stanford3421 | 09/11/07
Vigilanteism  dragosani | 09/25/07
RE: Something uncomfortable about Defcon's treatment of Dateline NBC reporter  hqconverter | 04/14/09

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